balls of bearings of front wheel not staying put

When the balls come in a crown, it is common they
don't stay there at all without grease. I have not
seen this with the crowns of the rear hub or the
crank or fork. However, with grease the balls can be
made to stick to their places temporarily, and once
inside the hub, fixated by the cone nut, I suppose
there is no place for them to go? So is this the
normal state, an abnormal state that still works, or
should one discard those crowns? It seems to work what
I can see.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On 13/07/15 11:45, Emanuel Berg wrote:
When the balls come in a crown, it is common they
don't stay there at all without grease. I have not
seen this with the crowns of the rear hub or the
crank or fork. However, with grease the balls can be
made to stick to their places temporarily, and once
inside the hub, fixated by the cone nut, I suppose
there is no place for them to go? So is this the
normal state, an abnormal state that still works, or
should one discard those crowns? It seems to work what
I can see.



By crown I assume you mean cage, and I would say if the balls fall out
of the cage easily, once cleaned of grease, then the cage is worn.

--
JS

On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 03:45:45 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

When the balls come in a crown, it is common they
don't stay there at all without grease. I have not
seen this with the crowns of the rear hub or the
crank or fork. However, with grease the balls can be
made to stick to their places temporarily, and once
inside the hub, fixated by the cone nut, I suppose
there is no place for them to go? So is this the
normal state, an abnormal state that still works, or
should one discard those crowns? It seems to work what
I can see.

I really wish that you would learn to describe things accurately.

For the purpose of this discussion a "bicycle bearing" consists of
three parts. The outer race, the inner race (called a cone here) and a
number of balls, which may held in a retainer or loose.

If the bearing races and balls are clean and dry and one tries to put
the balls in the outer race they fall out... a round ball in a curved
surface ... so the technique is usually to first coat the bearing
surface of the outer race with a thick layer of grease which will
retain the balls - sort of stick them in place - until the race is
filled - note that a properly filled bearing race normally has one
less ball that the maximum that can be crammed into the race. Than the
inner race (cone) is inserted and there it is, a properly lubricated
and assembled bearing.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 7/13/2015 2:42 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 03:45:45 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

When the balls come in a crown, it is common they
don't stay there at all without grease. I have not
seen this with the crowns of the rear hub or the
crank or fork. However, with grease the balls can be
made to stick to their places temporarily, and once
inside the hub, fixated by the cone nut, I suppose
there is no place for them to go? So is this the
normal state, an abnormal state that still works, or
should one discard those crowns? It seems to work what
I can see.

I really wish that you would learn to describe things accurately.

Emanuel - I understand that English is not your first language. Is
there a chance you could buy a book on bike repair in your language,
plus one in English? Perhaps comparing the two would help you learn the
English vocabulary, and allow us to provide better help.

www.abebooks.com is an online network of used book stores. One can
often find books very inexpensively by searching there.

--
- Frank Krygowski

assemble axle vertically from one side with a light grease coat on both fixed and threaded races, blue Loctite those nuts and seats, turn over quickly do same other side then torque down both sides simultaneously.

On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 6:47:11 PM UTC-7, Emanuel Berg wrote:
When the balls come in a crown, it is common they
don't stay there at all without grease. I have not
seen this with the crowns of the rear hub or the
crank or fork. However, with grease the balls can be
made to stick to their places temporarily, and once
inside the hub, fixated by the cone nut, I suppose
there is no place for them to go? So is this the
normal state, an abnormal state that still works, or
should one discard those crowns? It seems to work what
I can see.

I see them lining up to change the subject.

firstly you put the inner bearing race on one side of the axle. Then you put some grease on the outer race you are about to work on. Quite a bit. It has to act somewhat like glue.

You then lay the wheel on a flat surface. When you drop the axle in, there will be plenty of room to slip in the bearings and push them into place. Generally the axle will keep the bearings from slipping and falling down through the hub. If you keep a small flat-bladed screwdriver available you can push bearings into place that start to slip off.

You then carefully lift the wheel and the axle will fall into place with the inner race trapping the bearings against the outer race.

Carefully turn the wheel over and again lay it on a flat surface. This will hold the lower bearings in place with the weight against the axle.

Then repeat on the top side.

When loaded thread on and tighten the top-side inner race. After they are mostly in place you can stand the wheel on it's rim edge and adjust the inner races to align the axle equal on both sides.

You tighten the races so that the axle turns smoothly without jamming. Over-tighten it to get a feel for what an over-tightened race feels like. It's pretty difficult to get it wrong.

Type of grease: It is generally best to use medium weight grease. And if you can get a clear grease it is more convenient since you can then look in the wheel now and again to see if there is excess dirt getting into the bearings and races and causing wear.

If there are ANY gouges in the outer races the wheel is a throw-away. Any on the inner races signals that the inner races MUST be replaced.

The ball bearings must be clean and smooth. There should be no spots or flats of any kind.

GACK.....slip bearings in ? where didja get slip bearings ? Loose Screws ?

the inner race goes on what side of what axle ? Mungolians ? the upper part or the lower part ? where is the hub going ? Chicago ?

difficult to get wrong.....eyeyyeyhahhahhahha....

chow

On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 03:45:45 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

When the balls come in a crown, it is common they
don't stay there at all without grease. I have not
seen this with the crowns of the rear hub or the
crank or fork. However, with grease the balls can be
made to stick to their places temporarily, and once
inside the hub, fixated by the cone nut, I suppose
there is no place for them to go? So is this the
normal state, an abnormal state that still works, or
should one discard those crowns? It seems to work what
I can see.

Try not to use "crowns", or cages. They tend to break and
loosen the bearings. Use only ball bearings, put grease in first so
they "stick" in the right place. After you tighten the cone, they will
not fall out.
PS of course, you will have to use a larger amount of ball
bearings than come in a cage, usually as many as you can fit in the
hub MINUS one.
[]'s

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/hubs.html
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

James writes:

By crown I assume you mean cage, and I would say if
the balls fall out of the cage easily, once cleaned
of grease, then the cage is worn.

OK, we'll do this one step at a time to minimize
confusion. In the subsequent replies there is a lot of
discussion which perhaps applies to a different
version of the front hub, at least some of it (?).
I've read it all but I don't see instantly how
everything applies to this issue.

This is what the front hub and associated parts look
like:

http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/front-hub.gif

Save for one thing - on each side, between the
bearings and the bearing cone, but not actually
touching the bearing code but rather being hammered
tight along the hub opening, there is a round lid - it
protects the bearings from dirt entering from the
outside, I suppose. It has a hole in the middle just
big enough for the axle and in particular the bearing
cone to get so close as to close the opening, but not
touch the actual lid component.

Does this part has a name, as well?

The bearings look like this:

http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/bearings.jpg

Without greese, the balls don't stay put. It is enough
for me to turn the bearings upside down in my hand or
drop them from 1-2 cm height to the table for
sometimes several of the balls to roll out. I have
seen this with many bearings, so it is not unique for
a single piece.

The balls are called balls I take it, but what are the
things called which (sometimes) hold them? I.e., what
is in the above photo, save for the balls?

And, now that you know what I mean 100%, again, is it
normal that the balls fall out very easily without
greese, or is that indicative of a failed (failing)
component?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On 7/13/2015 7:37 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
James writes:

By crown I assume you mean cage, and I would say if
the balls fall out of the cage easily, once cleaned
of grease, then the cage is worn.

OK, we'll do this one step at a time to minimize
confusion. In the subsequent replies there is a lot of
discussion which perhaps applies to a different
version of the front hub, at least some of it (?).
I've read it all but I don't see instantly how
everything applies to this issue.

This is what the front hub and associated parts look
like:

http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/front-hub.gif

Save for one thing - on each side, between the
bearings and the bearing cone, but not actually
touching the bearing code but rather being hammered
tight along the hub opening, there is a round lid - it
protects the bearings from dirt entering from the
outside, I suppose. It has a hole in the middle just
big enough for the axle and in particular the bearing
cone to get so close as to close the opening, but not
touch the actual lid component.

Does this part has a name, as well?

I've heard them called "dust caps" or "shields." I suppose there might
be other names.


The bearings look like this:

http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/bearings.jpg

Without greese, the balls don't stay put. It is enough
for me to turn the bearings upside down in my hand or
drop them from 1-2 cm height to the table for
sometimes several of the balls to roll out. I have
seen this with many bearings, so it is not unique for
a single piece.

The balls are called balls I take it, but what are the
things called which (sometimes) hold them? I.e., what
is in the above photo, save for the balls?

I'd call it a "bearing retainer."

And, now that you know what I mean 100%, again, is it
normal that the balls fall out very easily without
greese, or is that indicative of a failed (failing)
component?

It's normal for the balls to fall out very easily.

Many people say it's better to use plain balls with no retainer. It
will allow an extra ball, or perhaps two, to be inserted. Ideally this
will allow parts to last longer; but as you've found, it's a bit more
difficult to deal with loose bearing balls.

Try using this reference:
http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...and-adjustment


--
- Frank Krygowski