Q: regarding straight pull hubs

Tom, I think you are confusing straight-pull (as in spokes without elbows, like nails) with radial lacing (where the spokes point towards the axle enter and don't cross each other).

Tom Kunich wrote:

I had rather a different view of him. He always had to be the expert
and when he was wrong and you said so he would try to bully you.

I think maybe you ran afoul of his zealous opposition to factual errors more than you fully understand.

On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 3:19:12 PM UTC-8, Chalo wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

I had rather a different view of him. He always had to be the expert
and when he was wrong and you said so he would try to bully you.

I think maybe you ran afoul of his zealous opposition to factual errors more than you fully understand.

It had mostly to do with his treatment of newbie riders on his rides. You don't have a bunch of new guys trying to keep up with you on a long fast downhill and then turn onto a dirt track without slowing and without warning them.

The first time he did that I told him that wasn't very bright. The second time we were descending I told the others to watch for that. I suppose he didn't like that.

On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 3:16:26 PM UTC-8, Chalo wrote:
Tom, I think you are confusing straight-pull (as in spokes without elbows, like nails) with radial lacing (where the spokes point towards the axle enter and don't cross each other).

Most of the Campy wheels have straight pull spokes and radial lacing front and rear. Though going out and looking at them none of them appear to be disk. But how the hell could that be? Everyone is using disks now aren't they?

On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 3:37:41 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 3:16:26 PM UTC-8, Chalo wrote:
Tom, I think you are confusing straight-pull (as in spokes without elbows, like nails) with radial lacing (where the spokes point towards the axle enter and don't cross each other).

Most of the Campy wheels have straight pull spokes and radial lacing front and rear. Though going out and looking at them none of them appear to be disk. But how the hell could that be? Everyone is using disks now aren't they?

Going out to other sites and looking and it appears that no one using disks is using radial spoking.

On 12/10/2019 4:09 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 12:56:52 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/9/2019 11:20 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 8:53:46 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 8:20:40 AM UTC-8, SconnieRoadie wrote:
Hi All,

Interesting to note, I have been away for a number of years and the posters I see today are the same as back then! The more things change...

Interested in building a pair of rim brake Powertap Enve wheels into a disc brake wheelset but not sure if the original evenly spaced rim is appropriate for a hub designed for straight pull spokes (different spoke crossing layout/drilling, perhaps?).

I want to use this powertap hub: https://powermetercity.com/product/p...rear-disc-hub/

TIA

Sconnie

Straight pull hubs and standard rim drillings are common. The Easton Vault hub is an example. https://tinyurl.com/scshrsa I don't think the Powertap would be any different. Some builders mix up the lacing so it's non-mirror image to resist disc braking forces, but I don't. I build discs the same way as I build any other wheel. I don't see any reason why you can't use your existing Enve rim -- assuming the correct number of spoke holes for the rim.

-- Jay Beattie.

In general I would hesitate to have straight pull spokes on a disk brake bike. All of he angles are wrong.


No, they're not.

Given 24 holes [1] the angle between adjacent spokes is
exactly the same as any other two-cross 24h wheel.

[1]I don't know rider weight or application but 24 is a
smallish spoke count for many riders.


Andrew, you're not speaking of a straight pull wheel I suspect. Front wheels with straight pull spokes and disks pull the spokes at almost 90 degrees from their line of entry into the hub. (and the Campy only have 12 spokes don't they?) I know the older Campy wheels I have, have straight pull spokes and only 18 spokes.


Right but that's a different discussion.
24 hole two cross wheels, whether bent head or straight
pull, have the same spoke angle.

Radial, asymmetric rim drill and so on are another thing
entirely.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/10/2019 5:37 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 3:16:26 PM UTC-8, Chalo wrote:
Tom, I think you are confusing straight-pull (as in spokes without elbows, like nails) with radial lacing (where the spokes point towards the axle enter and don't cross each other).

Most of the Campy wheels have straight pull spokes and radial lacing front and rear. Though going out and looking at them none of them appear to be disk. But how the hell could that be? Everyone is using disks now aren't they?



https://bikerumor-wpengine.netdna-ss...elset_pair.jpg

serving suggestion:
https://bikerumor-wpengine.netdna-ss...nt-caliper.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 5:08:28 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/10/2019 5:37 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 3:16:26 PM UTC-8, Chalo wrote:
Tom, I think you are confusing straight-pull (as in spokes without elbows, like nails) with radial lacing (where the spokes point towards the axle enter and don't cross each other).

Most of the Campy wheels have straight pull spokes and radial lacing front and rear. Though going out and looking at them none of them appear to be disk. But how the hell could that be? Everyone is using disks now aren't they?



https://bikerumor-wpengine.netdna-ss...elset_pair.jpg

serving suggestion:
https://bikerumor-wpengine.netdna-ss...nt-caliper.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I have talked to several frame builders and they don't like the idea of disk brakes because all of the braking forces are in the wrong places. Rim brakes Are om the most strongly reinforced areas whereas disks put all of the forces out at the least strong areas meaning that you have to super-reinforce those areas.

On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 7:20:09 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 5:08:28 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/10/2019 5:37 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 3:16:26 PM UTC-8, Chalo wrote:
Tom, I think you are confusing straight-pull (as in spokes without elbows, like nails) with radial lacing (where the spokes point towards the axle enter and don't cross each other).

Most of the Campy wheels have straight pull spokes and radial lacing front and rear. Though going out and looking at them none of them appear to be disk. But how the hell could that be? Everyone is using disks now aren't they?



https://bikerumor-wpengine.netdna-ss...elset_pair.jpg

serving suggestion:
https://bikerumor-wpengine.netdna-ss...nt-caliper.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I have talked to several frame builders and they don't like the idea of disk brakes because all of the braking forces are in the wrong places. Rim brakes Are om the most strongly reinforced areas whereas disks put all of the forces out at the least strong areas meaning that you have to super-reinforce those areas.

What frame builders? https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...2018/?slide=22 https://bikeportland.org/2019/03/01/...orkshop-296265

I think the technical difficulties were overcome years ago.

-- Jay Beattie

On 12/12/2019 11:22 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 7:20:09 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 5:08:28 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/10/2019 5:37 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 3:16:26 PM UTC-8, Chalo wrote:
Tom, I think you are confusing straight-pull (as in spokes without elbows, like nails) with radial lacing (where the spokes point towards the axle enter and don't cross each other).

Most of the Campy wheels have straight pull spokes and radial lacing front and rear. Though going out and looking at them none of them appear to be disk. But how the hell could that be? Everyone is using disks now aren't they?



https://bikerumor-wpengine.netdna-ss...elset_pair.jpg

serving suggestion:
https://bikerumor-wpengine.netdna-ss...nt-caliper.jpg


I have talked to several frame builders and they don't like the idea of disk brakes because all of the braking forces are in the wrong places. Rim brakes Are om the most strongly reinforced areas whereas disks put all of the forces out at the least strong areas meaning that you have to super-reinforce those areas.

What frame builders? https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...2018/?slide=22 https://bikeportland.org/2019/03/01/...orkshop-296265

I think the technical difficulties were overcome years ago.

Or a communications problem. I, like most guys who rework
steel frames, almost always pass on 'add discs' requests for
a host of reasons. That's not at all the same as 'build me a
new frame designed for disc brake'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971