Mavic CrossMax SL freehub mystery problem

Hi all,

I bought a new set of CrossMax SL wheels for my Santa Cruz last July.
They've had a few months worth of riding and then hung up for the
winter. I took the bike down a few weeks ago for it's first spring
ride and the rear wheel had seized. With a little effort (pedaling)
the wheel loosened up but I knew I had a bearing problem. I was set
for a ride so I did it anyway as it was a road ride in the mountains.
The wheel seemed OK but then on the descents at higher speed (about
+50 km/hr) the hub made this high pitched death scream that made me
think the wheel was going to explode. When this happened it felt like
I was hitting the brakes hard. I thought it was the bearing but if I
pedalled the noise and friction would stop. Scary.

I am a mechanic from my younger days but I have never pulled apart the
Mavic hub and didn't know the process or if I needed special tools.
So I took the wheel into my favorite mechanic. I told him the story
and together we pulled it apart. We inspected the freehub first.
Very simple really and it looked perfect. He lubed it a bit and we
moved on. We pulled out the left bearing (non-drive side) and it was
toast. Mavic used a one-sided sealed bearing and water had gotten
past it's defences. The bearing was full of crap and rust. He didn't
have the right size replacement so he rebuilt it as best as possible
and I wrote down the numbers and ordered a new one. The new one is a
double sided SKF. After that came in, I installed it. Everything
should be good now, right? Wrong!

On a ride on Saturday it was fine. On Sunday's ride it was screaming
it's death wale everytime I stopped pedalling! By the end of the ride
it was making this noise along with the associated friction at speed's
as low as 10 km/hr. I pulled the hub apart last night to have another
look at the freehub. I looks fine. There is nothing to indicate a
problem. The palls look like they may have some wear on the ends but
this may be my memory failing. I cleaned them and removed a little
grease as they seemed a little gummy. I put the whole unit back
together very confused as to what is causing this problem. I went for
a short test spin down the road afterwards and I have no noise up to
30 km/hr. I don't trust that the problem is fixed though. Any ideas
on what is causing this problem?

TIA,

Neil

toolguy wrote:
Hi all,

I bought a new set of CrossMax SL wheels for my Santa Cruz last July.
They've had a few months worth of riding and then hung up for the
winter. I took the bike down a few weeks ago for it's first spring
ride and the rear wheel had seized. With a little effort (pedaling)
the wheel loosened up but I knew I had a bearing problem. I was set
for a ride so I did it anyway as it was a road ride in the mountains.
The wheel seemed OK but then on the descents at higher speed (about
+50 km/hr) the hub made this high pitched death scream that made me
think the wheel was going to explode. When this happened it felt like
I was hitting the brakes hard. I thought it was the bearing but if I
pedalled the noise and friction would stop. Scary.

I am a mechanic from my younger days but I have never pulled apart the
Mavic hub and didn't know the process or if I needed special tools.
So I took the wheel into my favorite mechanic. I told him the story
and together we pulled it apart. We inspected the freehub first.
Very simple really and it looked perfect. He lubed it a bit and we
moved on. We pulled out the left bearing (non-drive side) and it was
toast. Mavic used a one-sided sealed bearing and water had gotten
past it's defences. The bearing was full of crap and rust. He didn't
have the right size replacement so he rebuilt it as best as possible
and I wrote down the numbers and ordered a new one. The new one is a
double sided SKF. After that came in, I installed it. Everything
should be good now, right? Wrong!

On a ride on Saturday it was fine. On Sunday's ride it was screaming
it's death wale everytime I stopped pedalling! By the end of the ride
it was making this noise along with the associated friction at speed's
as low as 10 km/hr. I pulled the hub apart last night to have another
look at the freehub. I looks fine. There is nothing to indicate a
problem. The palls look like they may have some wear on the ends but
this may be my memory failing. I cleaned them and removed a little
grease as they seemed a little gummy. I put the whole unit back
together very confused as to what is causing this problem. I went for
a short test spin down the road afterwards and I have no noise up to
30 km/hr. I don't trust that the problem is fixed though. Any ideas
on what is causing this problem?

I had the exact same problem with my Crossmax XL rear wheel. The noise went
away after the shop "cleaned up" the hub a bit, but the
owner/salesman/mechanic says I'll need a new bearing. (I still get
"freewheeling", where the cranks keep turning when the wheel rotates fast;
AND the wheel moves backwards when I backpedal in the stand, too.)

I've been less than thrilled with these wheels. First I popped a rear spoke
(didn't break, so was able to pop it back in). Then I've had the bearing
problems -- drag first and then the death squeal. Finally, the FRONT hub
started seizing up a bit; then it basically came apart with no tools
involved (the plastic bearing adjuster is a pathetic joke). I got it back
together with my hands only, and a small point-punch to hold the adjusting
disc in place since the plastic tool disintegrated. Front seems OK now, but
could come apart again it seems...

The guy who sold 'em to me says I need to avoid water crossings (very rare
here in San Diego), but all my friends blast thru the few we encounter
seemingly with impunity. I'm glad he's willing to replace the bearing(s),
but wheels this expensive shouldn't be so delicate. (Not MOUNTAIN biking
wheels, anyway.)

Good news is, they're easy to service.

Bad news is, they're gonna need it!

Bill "not a Mavic (hubs at least) fan" S.

On 3 May 2004 07:03:24 -0700, (toolguy) wrote:

Hi all,

I bought a new set of CrossMax SL wheels for my Santa Cruz last July.
They've had a few months worth of riding and then hung up for the
winter. I took the bike down a few weeks ago for it's first spring
ride and the rear wheel had seized. With a little effort (pedaling)
the wheel loosened up but I knew I had a bearing problem. I was set
for a ride so I did it anyway as it was a road ride in the mountains.
The wheel seemed OK but then on the descents at higher speed (about
+50 km/hr) the hub made this high pitched death scream that made me
think the wheel was going to explode. When this happened it felt like
I was hitting the brakes hard. I thought it was the bearing but if I
pedalled the noise and friction would stop. Scary.

I am a mechanic from my younger days but I have never pulled apart the
Mavic hub and didn't know the process or if I needed special tools.
So I took the wheel into my favorite mechanic. I told him the story
and together we pulled it apart. We inspected the freehub first.
Very simple really and it looked perfect. He lubed it a bit and we
moved on. We pulled out the left bearing (non-drive side) and it was
toast. Mavic used a one-sided sealed bearing and water had gotten
past it's defences. The bearing was full of crap and rust. He didn't
have the right size replacement so he rebuilt it as best as possible
and I wrote down the numbers and ordered a new one. The new one is a
double sided SKF. After that came in, I installed it. Everything
should be good now, right? Wrong!

On a ride on Saturday it was fine. On Sunday's ride it was screaming
it's death wale everytime I stopped pedalling! By the end of the ride
it was making this noise along with the associated friction at speed's
as low as 10 km/hr. I pulled the hub apart last night to have another
look at the freehub. I looks fine. There is nothing to indicate a
problem. The palls look like they may have some wear on the ends but
this may be my memory failing. I cleaned them and removed a little
grease as they seemed a little gummy. I put the whole unit back
together very confused as to what is causing this problem. I went for
a short test spin down the road afterwards and I have no noise up to
30 km/hr. I don't trust that the problem is fixed though. Any ideas
on what is causing this problem?

TIA,

Neil

Dear Neil,

Could some of the rust and ground-off material from the bearing that
you replaced migrated elsewhere, beyond the parts that you cleaned?

Even a few flakes or chunks can make odd noises and then move on into
other nooks and crannies, making no noise on Saturday, lots of noise
Sunday, and then vanishing again when you take things apart and put
them back together.

Or it could be that Mr. Paul was appawled.

And please, I use "Death Whale" as my stage name now when I'm wailing
with my humpback-up chorus.

Moby-Dick

Dear Neil,

Could some of the rust and ground-off material from the bearing that
you replaced migrated elsewhere, beyond the parts that you cleaned?

Even a few flakes or chunks can make odd noises and then move on into
other nooks and crannies, making no noise on Saturday, lots of noise
Sunday, and then vanishing again when you take things apart and put
them back together.

Or it could be that Mr. Paul was appawled.

And please, I use "Death Whale" as my stage name now when I'm wailing
with my humpback-up chorus.

Moby-Dick


Dear Dick,

Thanks for the ribbing on my typing. Deserved.

As for your comments on my hub.... I don't think it's possible that
rust or debri got into another area. The internal hub area isn't
accessible from the left bearing and the other bearings are double
sealed. As well, we cleaned out the cavity around the bad bearing
when we overhauled it. There wasn't anything to speak of. The rust
was noticable on the outside of the bearing but everything else was
internal.

Thanks,

Neil

I had the exact same problem with my Crossmax XL rear wheel. The noise went
away after the shop "cleaned up" the hub a bit, but the
owner/salesman/mechanic says I'll need a new bearing. (I still get
"freewheeling", where the cranks keep turning when the wheel rotates fast;
AND the wheel moves backwards when I backpedal in the stand, too.)

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your comments. I agree that any expensive wheel,
especially a mountain bike wheel, should be less fragile. Did the
problem ever return after the shop cleaned them up? Did they tell
anything specific that they did?

Thanks,

Neil

On 3 May 2004 15:32:38 -0700, (toolguy) wrote:

Dear Neil,

Could some of the rust and ground-off material from the bearing that
you replaced migrated elsewhere, beyond the parts that you cleaned?

Even a few flakes or chunks can make odd noises and then move on into
other nooks and crannies, making no noise on Saturday, lots of noise
Sunday, and then vanishing again when you take things apart and put
them back together.

Or it could be that Mr. Paul was appawled.

And please, I use "Death Whale" as my stage name now when I'm wailing
with my humpback-up chorus.

Moby-Dick


Dear Dick,

Thanks for the ribbing on my typing. Deserved.

As for your comments on my hub.... I don't think it's possible that
rust or debri got into another area. The internal hub area isn't
accessible from the left bearing and the other bearings are double
sealed. As well, we cleaned out the cavity around the bad bearing
when we overhauled it. There wasn't anything to speak of. The rust
was noticable on the outside of the bearing but everything else was
internal.

Thanks,

Neil

Dear Neil,

With luck, your hub noise will never return. But if it was a
come-and-go noise, something must have come-and-gone.

All that I can think of is:

a) Debris like rust (or spotty lubrication) moving around

b) Ever-so-slightly different re-assembly changing mating surfaces

If stable surfaces were shrieking because they were unlubricated or
were binding, the noise probably wouldn't come and go from day to day:

"Oh -- well, about a year ago -- I was chopping that tree -- minding
my own business -- when suddenly it started to rain....and right in
the middle of a chop, I...I rusted solid. And I've been that way ever
since."

http://www.un-official.com/The_Daily...t/ms_wizoz.htm

Usually, squeaks don't improve unless something changes. The Tin Man
needed oiling.

Frank Baum

toolguy wrote:

Thanks for your comments. I agree that any expensive wheel,
especially a mountain bike wheel, should be less fragile. Did the
problem ever return after the shop cleaned them up? Did they tell
anything specific that they did?

Hi Neil,

No, the "noise from hell" problem hasn't returned (yet?), but like I said
there's still some drag and "roughage".

All the guy (Ron) did was open the hub with a 10-mm, swab it out with a
Q-tip, and add some grease. But he agreed that the bearing wasn't very
smooth, and recommended replacing (I assume under warranty, as it started
well under a year since purchase).

He also implied that I abused the wheels somehow -- that no one else had
EVER had a problem with them -- so you can bet I'm going to show him your
original post (and my initial reply). I even started road biking last
summer, so the wheels get a lot less use than they would by a "full time"
mountain biker.

Keep us posted on what happens with your SL's!

Bill "thanks to others for /bearing/ with us" S.

toolguy wrote:

Hi all,

I bought a new set of CrossMax SL wheels for my Santa Cruz last July.
They've had a few months worth of riding and then hung up for the
winter. I took the bike down a few weeks ago for it's first spring
ride and the rear wheel had seized. With a little effort (pedaling)
the wheel loosened up but I knew I had a bearing problem. I was set
for a ride so I did it anyway as it was a road ride in the mountains.
The wheel seemed OK but then on the descents at higher speed (about
+50 km/hr) the hub made this high pitched death scream that made me
think the wheel was going to explode. -snip-
We pulled out the left bearing (non-drive side) and it was
toast.-snip-
On Sunday's ride it was screaming
it's death wale

You mention service to the left bearing. Open the right ones?
Death wale? Perhaps a corduroy would be less loud.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi wrote:
toolguy wrote:

The wheel seemed OK but then on the descents at higher speed (about
+50 km/hr) the hub made this high pitched death scream that made me
think the wheel was going to explode. -snip-

Death wale? Perhaps a corduroy would be less loud.

Believe me, this noise sucks big knobbies! Sort of a mid-pitched vibratory
squeal that makes you think your rear end is about to disintegrate. Shakes
the frame a bit, even.

Bill "keeps others at arm's length, at least" S.

S o r n i wrote:
A Muzi wrote:
toolguy wrote:

The wheel seemed OK but then on the descents at higher speed (about
+50 km/hr) the hub made this high pitched death scream that made me
think the wheel was going to explode. -snip-

Death wale? Perhaps a corduroy would be less loud.

Believe me, this noise sucks big knobbies!

And, I just got your whale of a material joke.

Bill "whoosh" S.