Loop detector detector?

On Sun, 17 Aug 2014 22:47:23 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/17/2014 8:12 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

I assume that these lights are in your local village. Is it not
possible the get the local highway department to paint a location
marker on the pavement to indicate where a bicycle would have to be to
trigger the light?

There are a couple sets of lights (the ones near the school) that are in
my village. There are others that are in a neighboring township. And
there are probably many more in our metro area.

In my village, I've volunteered to do the painting myself. I can cut
the stencil. I've discussed this with the village council president
before, and will discuss it again.

But in general, someone needs to know where the sweet spot is, before
that spot can be marked. In some cases, I do know. In other cases, I
think nobody knows. Hence the desirability of a detector.

Incidentally, I'm considering whether it would be a good project for our
bike club to just bypass the red tape and do the marking ourselves.
That strategy has advantages and disadvantages, of course.

Whoever installs the things must/should have some data on the coils,
how deep they can be buried, how top test them, etc. Logically the
town/county/state highway department.

Once you can find that info I'd think some sort of a deal could be
structured... "give us the paint and we'll paint the signs", might be
a good way to start. There are probably laws/regulations about what
kind of signs and what color one can paint on the streets.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, August 17, 2014 7:47:23 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/17/2014 8:12 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:



I assume that these lights are in your local village. Is it not

possible the get the local highway department to paint a location

marker on the pavement to indicate where a bicycle would have to be to

trigger the light?



There are a couple sets of lights (the ones near the school) that are in

my village. There are others that are in a neighboring township. And

there are probably many more in our metro area.



In my village, I've volunteered to do the painting myself. I can cut

the stencil. I've discussed this with the village council president

before, and will discuss it again.



But in general, someone needs to know where the sweet spot is, before

that spot can be marked. In some cases, I do know. In other cases, I

think nobody knows. Hence the desirability of a detector.



Incidentally, I'm considering whether it would be a good project for our

bike club to just bypass the red tape and do the marking ourselves.

That strategy has advantages and disadvantages, of course.

There are several intersections around here where the powers-that-be actually applied graphics indicating where bicyclists should be located to trigger the loop. The loops still don't work. It is against the law to blow the light. I'm thinking of proposing a bill allowing bicyclists to proceed safely through the intersection, but I have to work on some language. If you know of a statute or proposed language, let me know.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 8/18/2014 7:28 AM, jbeattie wrote:

There are several intersections around here where the powers-that-be actually applied graphics indicating where bicyclists should be located to trigger the loop. The loops still don't work. It is against the law to blow the light. I'm thinking of proposing a bill allowing bicyclists to proceed safely through the intersection, but I have to work on some language. If you know of a statute or proposed language, let me know.

I'd say that about 3/4 of the loops in my area work. But one thing I
found is that they work for some bicycles and not for others. I was at
one loop that my wife insisted never worked--she always went over and
pushed the button for the pedestrian crossing light. But it worked fine
for me.

Since I'm working extensively these days on inductive sensors, and how
inductance changes based on the type of metal, it was pretty clear what
the problem was. Aluminum is harder to detect than steel but if the loop
is properly located, and there is sufficient gain in the electronics,
aluminum should be no problem. Even the aluminum in the wheels of a
carbon fiber bicycle should be sufficient.

What surprised me is that even though I have a steel-framed bicycle, the
wheels are what should trigger the sensor, and the wheels on my wife's
bicycle have a lot more metal than the wheels on mine.

A carbon fiber bicycle with carbon fiber rims would be difficult to
detect since you'd have to detect the metal in the drive train or in the
spokes (unless carbon fiber spokes are used). Ironically, carbon fiber
does make other sensing functions easier because you can put sensors
inside the frame and they can detect metal right through the carbon
fiber. So embedded cadence, wheel rotation, and torque sensors are
easier on carbon fiber.

On Monday, August 18, 2014 10:28:26 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 17, 2014 7:47:23 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 8/17/2014 8:12 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:







I assume that these lights are in your local village. Is it not



possible the get the local highway department to paint a location



marker on the pavement to indicate where a bicycle would have to be to



trigger the light?







There are a couple sets of lights (the ones near the school) that are in



my village. There are others that are in a neighboring township. And



there are probably many more in our metro area.







In my village, I've volunteered to do the painting myself. I can cut



the stencil. I've discussed this with the village council president



before, and will discuss it again.







But in general, someone needs to know where the sweet spot is, before



that spot can be marked. In some cases, I do know. In other cases, I



think nobody knows. Hence the desirability of a detector.







Incidentally, I'm considering whether it would be a good project for our



bike club to just bypass the red tape and do the marking ourselves.



That strategy has advantages and disadvantages, of course.



There are several intersections around here where the powers-that-be actually applied graphics indicating where bicyclists should be located to trigger the loop. The loops still don't work. It is against the law to blow the light. I'm thinking of proposing a bill allowing bicyclists to proceed safely through the intersection, but I have to work on some language. If you know of a statute or proposed language, let me know.



-- Jay Beattie.

ssssssssssssssssss


I creep....a van moving from stop requires more energy than an accelerating van, cruise up cruise off. Esping the light changes is abt 100%...possible to light up the tires n cross the line as lights turn green.

Sometimes if enough local are on the blvd we play a gameof let's see if we can beat the Van into green. Not often b ut a few...

This led to a casual warning the law is NO movement before green.

BAH !

On Monday, August 18, 2014 10:28:26 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:


There are several intersections around here where the powers-that-be actually applied graphics indicating where bicyclists should be located to trigger the loop. The loops still don't work. It is against the law to blow the light. I'm thinking of proposing a bill allowing bicyclists to proceed safely through the intersection, but I have to work on some language. If you know of a statute or proposed language, let me know.


http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/B...B_145_I_Y.html

But it solves only a small part of the problem. We need to get detectors that
sense any road-legal vehicle. Or, for other states, any road-legal device
operated by a person with all the rights and duties of a vehicle operator.

- Frank Krygowski

On 19/08/14 00:28, jbeattie wrote:


There are several intersections around here where the powers-that-be
actually applied graphics indicating where bicyclists should be
located to trigger the loop. The loops still don't work. It is
against the law to blow the light. I'm thinking of proposing a bill
allowing bicyclists to proceed safely through the intersection, but I
have to work on some language. If you know of a statute or proposed
language, let me know.


I know of no such language, but I'd like to propose a bill such as that
to one of our Greens MPs, who's right on to the active transport "thing".

--
JS

On Monday, August 18, 2014 12:15:37 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, August 18, 2014 10:28:26 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:





There are several intersections around here where the powers-that-be actually applied graphics indicating where bicyclists should be located to trigger the loop. The loops still don't work. It is against the law to blow the light. I'm thinking of proposing a bill allowing bicyclists to proceed safely through the intersection, but I have to work on some language. If you know of a statute or proposed language, let me know.





http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/B...B_145_I_Y.html



But it solves only a small part of the problem. We need to get detectors that

sense any road-legal vehicle. Or, for other states, any road-legal device

operated by a person with all the rights and duties of a vehicle operator..



- Frank Krygowski

Thanks. I'll clean-up the language and see if I can scrape up a sponsor. I'm also going to see if something like this has been proposed in the past.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2014 18:15:14 +1000, James
wrote:

Frank didn't mention it was a car radio.

True. However, I have difficulties visualizing Frank carrying a boom
box on his shoulder, blasting away in low fidelity AM.

Then again, it might have been a car radio:
http://www.duskyswondersite.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/lords-of-logistics-7b-dashboard-boom.jpg

It might also be a 40kHz square wave (or heavily distorted 40kHz wave of
some description), with harmonics that spread way up through the spectrum.

Sure, if the equipment supplier doesn't care about FCC incidental
radiation requirements (FCC Part 15). The FCC generally fails to
appreciate spewing RF on frequencies where it will do little good or
cause interference. More likely, the equipment vendor made some
effort to minimize the harmonics and to keep the power levels low
enough so it would not be heard on anyone's receiver:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintentional_radiator


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jay Beattie.

west laws database is directly addressable to: state or county bicycle laws stop signs and lights

then crossing as a filter

true ?

also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_47_CFR_Part_15

On 8/18/2014 6:09 AM, xpzzzz wrote:


Have a look at http://www.google.com/patents/US7907065

which has a good explanation in the description of related art.


ISTR seeing a patent for a large steel plate (at least a foot square)
carried on a bicycle and attached to it by a string. Upon coming to a
traffic light, the rider was supposed to throw the plate down on the
ground to trigger the loop detector.

Thing is, the patent was supposedly for this OR ANY OTHER method of
triggering a green light for a bicycle.

I don't know how defensible such a ludicrous patent would be. But the
cost of battling it would certainly deter a certain amount of innovation.

--
- Frank Krygowski