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#1
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Chain wear and cassette question
To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed 0.5%
stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one has to stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long. However, the rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040" or 1mm. How much is too much? I guess it's almost finished because of those rollers. Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked. https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327 -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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#2
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Chain wear and cassette question
On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 12:51:38 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed 0.5% stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one has to stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long. However, the rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040" or 1mm. How much is too much? I guess it's almost finished because of those rollers. Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked. https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327 -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ With the Sunrace, the big cogs are not on a carrier, so you can talk it apart. It looks like it has one torx screw. http://www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/csm680 |
#3
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Chain wear and cassette question
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:51:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote: To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed 0.5% stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one has to stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long. However, the rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040" or 1mm. How much is too much? I guess it's almost finished because of those rollers. Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked. https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327 My rather limited experience has been that the cassettes with the larger cogs usually have the largest 3 or 4 cogs riveted to a hub that connects them to the free hub so yes you can hack them if you accept the size and spacing of the largest three, or so, cogs. Some time ago I think you talked about using friction shifters and if you do that then the spacing of the cassette is no longer relevant as the friction shifters will shift any cassette. cheers, John B. |
#4
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Chain wear and cassette question
On 2018-11-10, Joerg wrote:
Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked. https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327 This post makes me question a lot of things, including your sense of time invested vs getting what you want no matter how the industry has stopped doing it that way. Moving past that, though: If you want to maintain 7sp spacing, then your hub has a 7sp cassette body, probably HG with 31.9mm width. You should tell us specifically what it is, though; widths vary, including the also-7sp Shimano IG. You've posted an 8sp cassette (36.5mm width). Photo #2 shows the one silver and two black pins holding the cogs together. You could think about using a drill press, I suppose, but looking at photo #1 there looks like a color difference between the smallest 3 cogs and the rest, which adds to my suspicion that they're separate from the larger pinned set. If that's so, then you can think about omitting cogs and spacers to fit the smaller width of your cassette body. For the derailer, if your 600 is a GS (aka mid cage) instead of the short one, which I assume it is due to your current 32t configuration, then you might try keeping it and adding a Wolf Tooth Roadlink. Making your bike one more bit of a hack should be considered a central part of this quest, and that fits the bill while hopefully allowing you to keep using existing equipment. https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/...ducts/roadlink -- Gregory S. Sutter Mostly Harmless http://zer0.org/~gsutter/ |
#5
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Chain wear and cassette question
On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-8, Gregory Sutter wrote:
On 2018-11-10, Joerg wrote: Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked. https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327 This post makes me question a lot of things, including your sense of time invested vs getting what you want no matter how the industry has stopped doing it that way. Moving past that, though: If you want to maintain 7sp spacing, then your hub has a 7sp cassette body, probably HG with 31.9mm width. You should tell us specifically what it is, though; widths vary, including the also-7sp Shimano IG. You've posted an 8sp cassette (36.5mm width). Photo #2 shows the one silver and two black pins holding the cogs together. You could think about using a drill press, I suppose, but looking at photo #1 there looks like a color difference between the smallest 3 cogs and the rest, which adds to my suspicion that they're separate from the larger pinned set. If that's so, then you can think about omitting cogs and spacers to fit the smaller width of your cassette body. For the derailer, if your 600 is a GS (aka mid cage) instead of the short one, which I assume it is due to your current 32t configuration, then you might try keeping it and adding a Wolf Tooth Roadlink. Making your bike one more bit of a hack should be considered a central part of this quest, and that fits the bill while hopefully allowing you to keep using existing equipment. https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/...ducts/roadlink I think the pins could be removed with Joerg's patented nail and a hammer, and the silver pin is a screw. It looks like the Sunrace people are trying to accommodate the build-a-beater set. That Wolftooth is interesting and reminiscent of the new Shimano derailleurs. https://static.biketiresdirect.com/p...0/sh7rd1-1.jpg Joerg needs a gravel bike, which he could get practically anywhere for pretty cheap. Keep the economy strong! Use that giant Trump tax savings! Yes, 11sp wears out more quickly, but it is smooth as butt-ah, and he could get hydraulic discs for the super-duper scary road descents, drunk drivers, mountain lions (I brake for mountain lions), etc. Cameron Park demands discs! I was getting dragged around today by a friend who was on 35mm CX tires and a CX race bike. I was on a Synapse with 28mm slicks. My friend loves his CX race bike with wide range 11sp. It's like 16lbs. We hit some straight up gravel, and he rode away on his little gears. https://tinyurl.com/y7le55hm (steeper than it looks up that cut). Cold but clear, and it warmed up a bit. Lots of scary cars on the way home, but my disc brakes saved me. I would never ride a bike without discs. I could die. Joerg is actually exposing himself to great danger on that early '80s hose-clamp museum piece club racer of his. -- Jay Beattie. |
#6
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Chain wear and cassette question
On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 3:51:38 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed 0.5% stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one has to stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long. However, the rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040" or 1mm. How much is too much? I guess it's almost finished because of those rollers. Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked. https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327 -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Maybe think about changing the crankset to smaller chainrings instead? Won't getting the rear derailleur low enough to clear that 40 teeth cog also make the derailleur more vulnerable to getting smacked by a rock? Cheers |
#7
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Chain wear and cassette question
On 2018-11-10 14:49, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 12:51:38 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed 0.5% stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one has to stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long. However, the rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040" or 1mm. How much is too much? I guess it's almost finished because of those rollers. Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked. https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327 -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ With the Sunrace, the big cogs are not on a carrier, so you can talk it apart. It looks like it has one torx screw. http://www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/csm680 Cool. Thanks, then in can be done. I wonder why they often sell derailer hanger adapters for that. Maybe even the long cage derailers aren't long enough for 40T? Should work on my road bike though because it has adjustable slot drop-outs and I already had to scoot it forward to make the Shimano 600 derailer handle 32T (it's normally limited to 28T). -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#8
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Chain wear and cassette question
On 2018-11-10 14:53, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:51:48 -0800, Joerg wrote: To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed 0.5% stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one has to stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long. However, the rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040" or 1mm. How much is too much? I guess it's almost finished because of those rollers. Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked. https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327 My rather limited experience has been that the cassettes with the larger cogs usually have the largest 3 or 4 cogs riveted to a hub that connects them to the free hub so yes you can hack them if you accept the size and spacing of the largest three, or so, cogs. Yes, some cassettes are like that, such as the one on my MTB. I never saw an 8-speed like that though. Some time ago I think you talked about using friction shifters and if you do that then the spacing of the cassette is no longer relevant as the friction shifters will shift any cassette. It will but I'd like to stay with the sturdier 5-6-7 speed chains for the road bike. That reduces maintance. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#9
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Chain wear and cassette question
On 2018-11-10 15:09, Gregory Sutter wrote:
On 2018-11-10, Joerg wrote: Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked. https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327 This post makes me question a lot of things, including your sense of time invested vs getting what you want no matter how the industry has stopped doing it that way. That's how I roll. I never spent a whole lot of time getting the things I want, regardless of what industry folks have decided. Hacking a cassette and assembling a custom one from the parts takes just a few minutes extra. BTDT. It just has to be hackable and sometimes that isn't very visible in sales photos, hence my post. ... Moving past that, though: If you want to maintain 7sp spacing, then your hub has a 7sp cassette body, probably HG with 31.9mm width. You should tell us specifically what it is, though; widths vary, including the also-7sp Shimano IG. Embarrassed to say, that is the only piece of info I forgot to enter into my bike computer file. IIRC what I installed is a Shimano STX-RC 7=speed hub which supposedly is the only one that can replace a UG hub without being excessively wide. It barely fit but I had to jiggle the spacers to make a 7-speed set-up work. I can run it with 6 cogs no sweat though, or grind off the teeth on the outermost cog (because there is a rack screw in the way). I did have to re-dish the wheel for this change. You've posted an 8sp cassette (36.5mm width). Photo #2 shows the one silver and two black pins holding the cogs together. You could think about using a drill press, I suppose, but looking at photo #1 there looks like a color difference between the smallest 3 cogs and the rest, which adds to my suspicion that they're separate from the larger pinned set. If that's so, then you can think about omitting cogs and spacers to fit the smaller width of your cassette body. That's what I'd like to try. Jay wrote that it's hackable so that is good. For the derailer, if your 600 is a GS (aka mid cage) instead of the short one, which I assume it is due to your current 32t configuration, then you might try keeping it and adding a Wolf Tooth Roadlink. Making your bike one more bit of a hack should be considered a central part of this quest, and that fits the bill while hopefully allowing you to keep using existing equipment. https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/...ducts/roadlink It's a short cage 600 and the only way I got it to shift up to the 32T was to scoot the rear wheel a bit forward in the slotted drop-outs. They've got alignment screws for that. This derailer is pretty tired, noisy idlers and all that, so getting a new long-cage one is probably wise. I'd have to find out if those shift to 40T though or I'd have to buy an adapter. You can get adapters from other manufacturers for around $7. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#10
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Chain wear and cassette question
On 2018-11-10 19:26, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 3:51:38 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: To my amazement a Sachs-Sedis chain will absolutely not exceed 0.5% stretch after more than 5000mi, despite some hills where one has to stand in the pedals. Never had a chain last this long. However, the rollers have developed a lot of play, about 0.040" or 1mm. How much is too much? I guess it's almost finished because of those rollers. Getting older, I'd like to increase the large cog to at least 40T from my current 32T. Of course, that will require me to retire the trusty old Shimano 600 derailer. I don't want the cassette to become ever wider and also need to maintain 7-speed spacing so I can use the more robust old-style 7.3mm pin length chains such as KMC Z50 (can't find the Sachs anymore). In the past I hacked cassettes, installed the cogs I wanted and re-used the old spacers. Can the larger cassettes like in the link below still be hacked apart? I don't mind drilling or dremeling stuff to get them apart. If memory serves me correctly I've installed a Shimano STX-RC freehub on the road bike after the last UG freehub had croaked. https://www.ebay.com/itm/SunRace-CSM...k/132325285327 -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Maybe think about changing the crankset to smaller chainrings instead? That is the other option, getting a compact for a square-taper BB. Requires a new derailer as well but for the front. However, I'd like to keep the old 52T and 42T combo. When riding on the 30mi long bike path between Sacramento and Folsom on a busier day that is just the right combination for a quick downshift, to accelerate hard and pass another cyclist, then shift back to the 52T ring. ... Won't getting the rear derailleur low enough to clear that 40 teeth cog also make the derailleur more vulnerable to getting smacked by a rock? While I do go offroad with my road bike it's not gnarly and then I ride slowly. On the MTB the rear derailer gets smacked a lot and I had to bend the hanger back numerous times during rides. The M781 derailer on the MTB is surprisingly sturdy. It's missing a little piece in the middle but still going strong. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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