Training for higher cadence

Kent Dorfman wrote:

Sheldon,

Is there an effective method for determining if your cranks are the
proper length?

There's some controversy on this point. For my opinion, see:

http://sheldonbrown.com/cranks

Sheldon "165-170" Brown
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| Our country is the world - our countrymen are mankind |
| --William Lloyd Garrison |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:34:36 +0100, "Graham Steer"
wrote:
If you are feeling brave you could get\put together a fixie with a gear in
the sixties and do some of your training runs on that. With this sort of
gear ratio you get plenty of practice with cadences in the 90 to 110 range
on the flat and the skies the limit down hill!!! If you live in a hilly area
then you might want to go a little lower on the gearing for the up hill that
is.

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
The OP has trouble with bouncing as well as trouble with high cadence.
If he uses a fixed gear, particularly in hilly terrain, he's going to
be doing a lot of bouncing. That is very bad.

OK, but he may well develop a nice smooth spin if he gets
the direct feedback from his fixed gear adventure. I believe
it helped me over the years to become smoother and more
balanced on the bike. No harm in it, I'd say.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:34:36 +0100, "Graham Steer"
wrote:
If you are feeling brave you could get\put together a fixie with a gear in
the sixties and do some of your training runs on that. With this sort of
gear ratio you get plenty of practice with cadences in the 90 to 110 range
on the flat and the skies the limit down hill!!! If you live in a hilly area
then you might want to go a little lower on the gearing for the up hill that
is.

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
The OP has trouble with bouncing as well as trouble with high cadence.
If he uses a fixed gear, particularly in hilly terrain, he's going to
be doing a lot of bouncing. That is very bad.

OK, but he may well develop a nice smooth spin if he gets
the direct feedback from his fixed gear adventure. I believe
it helped me over the years to become smoother and more
balanced on the bike. No harm in it, I'd say.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Kent Dorfman wrote:

Sheldon,

Is there an effective method for determining if your cranks are the
proper length?

No.

Humans are both adaptable ( at every height and stature
you'll find an adherent of every imaginable crank length)
and argumentative. After many words the consensus here is
that the crank length you prefer is the right one for you.

There are no wrong answers.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Kent Dorfman wrote:

Sheldon,

Is there an effective method for determining if your cranks are the
proper length?

No.

Humans are both adaptable ( at every height and stature
you'll find an adherent of every imaginable crank length)
and argumentative. After many words the consensus here is
that the crank length you prefer is the right one for you.

There are no wrong answers.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"scottt" wrote in message
om...
(H) wrote in message
om...
I recently installed a computer that tells me my cadence. Before
installing it, I had thought my cadence was at a proper "aerobic"
level-- I thought it was around 90.

I was shocked to find that my cadence is actually in the 70's.

So I've started trying to bring my cadence up. I find that in many
situations where I need to rest in a lower gear that I "bounce" in my
seat. For example, if I am on a road with traffic and I don't want to
go 18+mph and I have to switch to a lower gear, I end up bouncing hard
if I maintain the high cadence. In a higher gear, I find that I don't
have this problem.

I'm not sure if bouncing is the right word, but it feels like whatever
muscles are connected to my pelvis aren't working in sync with the
rest of my legs.

So, my question is.... what is the best way to train oneself to use a
higher cadence? How do you solve the "bouncing" problem? Is it
something that I just have to suffer through until my motor skills get
it? Or is there something I can do to help this along?

-Pedalogy 101-
♥ Cyclist start to develop efficiencies at certain pedal
cadences the more time they spend at them.
♥ Generally, at lower pedal cadences, say 60 to 80 rpm, people
have the greatest efficiency (on flat terrain). Once you get above
this level, you start to lose efficiency and begin to consume more
oxygen -- and your heart rate increases.
♥ For most pedalers, this poses a great training opportunity for
improving ones aerobic development.
♥ For improvement, you need to keep moving your cadence upward
(faster) in order to keep gaining efficiency at higher cadences.
♥ Some riders may be uncomfortable at rates of 90 to 100+ rpm,
especially if most of your training is done at 70 to 75 rpm. But the
bonus is, that over time, and with consistent practice, you're going
to start improving your aerobic capacity and your efficiency at that
elevated rpm level.
♥ Not only will you become more comfortable at this pedaling
rate, you will become highly-aware of your own effort output, and be
able to manage your ride (or precision cycling class) with confidence
regardless of terrain, duration or instructor demands.

Great points, and all true.
Additionally, your increased leg speed will enable improvements in
accelerations and sprinting.

"scottt" wrote in message
om...
(H) wrote in message
om...
I recently installed a computer that tells me my cadence. Before
installing it, I had thought my cadence was at a proper "aerobic"
level-- I thought it was around 90.

I was shocked to find that my cadence is actually in the 70's.

So I've started trying to bring my cadence up. I find that in many
situations where I need to rest in a lower gear that I "bounce" in my
seat. For example, if I am on a road with traffic and I don't want to
go 18+mph and I have to switch to a lower gear, I end up bouncing hard
if I maintain the high cadence. In a higher gear, I find that I don't
have this problem.

I'm not sure if bouncing is the right word, but it feels like whatever
muscles are connected to my pelvis aren't working in sync with the
rest of my legs.

So, my question is.... what is the best way to train oneself to use a
higher cadence? How do you solve the "bouncing" problem? Is it
something that I just have to suffer through until my motor skills get
it? Or is there something I can do to help this along?

-Pedalogy 101-
♥ Cyclist start to develop efficiencies at certain pedal
cadences the more time they spend at them.
♥ Generally, at lower pedal cadences, say 60 to 80 rpm, people
have the greatest efficiency (on flat terrain). Once you get above
this level, you start to lose efficiency and begin to consume more
oxygen -- and your heart rate increases.
♥ For most pedalers, this poses a great training opportunity for
improving ones aerobic development.
♥ For improvement, you need to keep moving your cadence upward
(faster) in order to keep gaining efficiency at higher cadences.
♥ Some riders may be uncomfortable at rates of 90 to 100+ rpm,
especially if most of your training is done at 70 to 75 rpm. But the
bonus is, that over time, and with consistent practice, you're going
to start improving your aerobic capacity and your efficiency at that
elevated rpm level.
♥ Not only will you become more comfortable at this pedaling
rate, you will become highly-aware of your own effort output, and be
able to manage your ride (or precision cycling class) with confidence
regardless of terrain, duration or instructor demands.

Great points, and all true.
Additionally, your increased leg speed will enable improvements in
accelerations and sprinting.

H wrote:

: So I've started trying to bring my cadence up. I find that in many
: situations where I need to rest in a lower gear that I "bounce" in my
: seat.

I'm surprised no-one else has mentioned this, but your saddle may well
be too high.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

H wrote:

: So I've started trying to bring my cadence up. I find that in many
: situations where I need to rest in a lower gear that I "bounce" in my
: seat.

I'm surprised no-one else has mentioned this, but your saddle may well
be too high.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:53:19 -0500, A Muzi
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:34:36 +0100, "Graham Steer"
wrote:
If you are feeling brave you could get\put together a fixie with a gear in
the sixties and do some of your training runs on that. With this sort of
gear ratio you get plenty of practice with cadences in the 90 to 110 range
on the flat and the skies the limit down hill!!! If you live in a hilly area
then you might want to go a little lower on the gearing for the up hill that
is.

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
The OP has trouble with bouncing as well as trouble with high cadence.
If he uses a fixed gear, particularly in hilly terrain, he's going to
be doing a lot of bouncing. That is very bad.

OK, but he may well develop a nice smooth spin if he gets
the direct feedback from his fixed gear adventure. I believe
it helped me over the years to become smoother and more
balanced on the bike. No harm in it, I'd say.

There is harm if you bounce. Iv'e seen it. I lived with one guy and
trained a lot with another who rode fixes every winter and both still
bounce at high cadence (fixed and free). It is a fundamental aspect
of sport -- don't practive doing something badly. A fixed on flat
terrain is OK, but if a rider finds himself boncing going downhill
that is very bad.

Note also that there is some question about the benefit of riding a
fixed gear -- it's probably not the fixed nature of the gear that
provided the training/learning benefit but rather the fact that riders
using them have to learn to pedal well at high rpm that offers the
benefit.

Here is a great piece on this by a guy who has, I believe, won world
championship medals racing on the track:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=wa...aol.com&rnum=3

JT