Voiding the warranty -- Dyno Redux

On 1/5/2020 2:32 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I have a multimeter and did house wiring and low voltage wiring before and after getting lawyer hands. I even have alligator clips. I just fixed my toaster, damn it! And the solenoid in my 1950 Westminster chime Nutone door bell.

I've put a multi-meter on it, and just looking at the output voltage doesn't say much, and I was thinking about testing it across a resistor. A light bulb as an indicator doesn't tell me much either except that the light bulb doesn't get that bright. I wonder if it should get brighter.

-- Jay Beattie.


A 1 ohm resistor of sufficient wattage would work. But just put the
multimeter inline with one of the wires from the dynamo, on the AC
current setting. Higher end multimeters have peak-hold options, but you
should be able to just fasten the meter to your handlebars temporarily.

Or buy this pane meter and mount it permanently somewhe
https://www.mpja.com/Panel-Meter-Snap-in-Multi-Function-AC-Volts-100Amps-and-22KW/productinfo/32403+ME/
10mA resolution.

On 1/5/2020 2:49 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

And I know, anyone who needs a bright light is an idiot -- like needing anything other than a 1970s touring bike with cantilever brakes. Riding on the rocky trail into my neighborhood at 10mph, the Luxos doesn't produce enough light to see. Sorry. It is inadequate. It is inadequate in most places except the cycletrack. My little all-in-one produces more light at the "medium" setting, but I'll do a comparison tomorrow night and report back.

Yes, 99.99% of U.S. cyclists that ride at night must be idiots for using
battery powered lights.

On 1/5/2020 9:12 PM, James wrote:
On 6/1/20 9:49 am, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 12:02:24 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 1/5/2020 11:08 AM, jbeattie wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:
what's wrong with the Luxos?


Or, as we simpletons put it, its dim -- at least compared to a
decent 800 lumen all-in-one on a 500 lumen setting, i.e. the
second to the highest setting on my L&M Urban 800...

Yep, lumen wars. And to continue the logic, the Urban 800 is dim
at least compared to the Urban 1000; which is really dim compared
to the Suburban 2500... and on and on.

A motorcycle's low beam headlamp is maybe 750 lumens and is usually
fine for 55 mph. It seems really weird to say you need to match
that with a bike headlight.

And we've talked about wet roads before; but last night, I was
driving on a dark, newly paved and relatively empty four-lane state
highway in the rain. For obvious optical reasons, I couldn't see my
headlight beams on the wet road. If my headlights were ten times
brighter, I still couldn't have seen them - but they sure would
have been effective at blinding oncoming motorists.

I've always suspected my hub output was low, too, but I don't
have a reliable way of testing it and don't feel like doing a DYI
Radio Shack project.

Do you own a multimeter? Seriously! We should be able to measure
the hub's output.

Is measuring with no load that meaningful?

No.Â* You could use a 6V/3W globe to test it, so long as you can spin the
wheel at least 10 mph, and have a cheap multimeter.Â* Measure voltage
across the globe in one test and the current through it in second test.
Â*Note that the voltage and current will be AC, so ensure the meter is
on the correct measurement setting.Â* RMS voltage x current through a
resistive load gives Watts.

Even easier, if you have a 12 ohm resistor capable of handling at least
5W, you could measure the voltage across the resistor while spinning the
wheel, then disconnect the resistor and measure the resistance just
after the test while it is potentially still warm, and use the
relationship V^2 / R = P.

(Note that a globe resistance changes significantly from cold to hot, so
you can't rely on the resistance measurement of a globe when it is not
glowing, but a resistor will maintain close to measured resistance well
enough).


And I know, anyone who needs a bright light is an idiot -- like
needing anything other than a 1970s touring bike with cantilever
brakes.Â* Riding on the rocky trail into my neighborhood at 10mph, the
Luxos doesn't produce enough light to see.Â* Sorry. It is inadequate.
It is inadequate in most places except the cycletrack. My little
all-in-one produces more light at the "medium" setting, but I'll do a
comparison tomorrow night and report back.


Last time I rode up the hill to home (10% in places, and I would be
riding slower than 10 mph) at night with my dynamo light on my heavy
gravel bike, there was plenty of light for me to see from my 80 lux B&M
IQTec Premium light.

I would have had no trouble on a gravel track at that speed with that
light.Â* Perhaps you just have poor vision at night?Â* I know I see better
at night than she who must be obeyed.

I agree with every bit of that. I use exactly that same headlight on one
of my bikes, the one I use for most "serious" night riding.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/6/2020 11:55 AM, sms wrote:
On 1/5/2020 2:49 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

And I know, anyone who needs a bright light is an idiot -- like
needing anything other than a 1970s touring bike with cantilever
brakes.Â* Riding on the rocky trail into my neighborhood at 10mph, the
Luxos doesn't produce enough light to see.Â* Sorry. It is inadequate.
It is inadequate in most places except the cycletrack. My little
all-in-one produces more light at the "medium" setting, but I'll do a
comparison tomorrow night and report back.

Yes, 99.99% of U.S. cyclists that ride at night must be idiots for using
battery powered lights.

At least 40% of U.S. cyclists that ride at night use no lights. In most
cases it's because they are idiots, and that's hard to fix. But in some
cases, it's because they forgot their light; or the battery ran down.
Dyno lights fix both of those problems.

"SMS" AKA Stephen M. Scharf now uses dyno lights himself, after decades
of ridiculing anyone who used them. Go figure!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 9:31:32 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/6/2020 11:55 AM, sms wrote:
On 1/5/2020 2:49 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

And I know, anyone who needs a bright light is an idiot -- like
needing anything other than a 1970s touring bike with cantilever
brakes.Â* Riding on the rocky trail into my neighborhood at 10mph, the
Luxos doesn't produce enough light to see.Â* Sorry. It is inadequate.
It is inadequate in most places except the cycletrack. My little
all-in-one produces more light at the "medium" setting, but I'll do a
comparison tomorrow night and report back.

Yes, 99.99% of U.S. cyclists that ride at night must be idiots for using
battery powered lights.

At least 40% of U.S. cyclists that ride at night use no lights. In most
cases it's because they are idiots, and that's hard to fix. But in some
cases, it's because they forgot their light; or the battery ran down.
Dyno lights fix both of those problems.

That happens now and then. It happened to me a few weeks ago, and I borrowed a blinky from a co-worker. On my way home up the goat road, I kept falling into holes in the pavement and whacking tree branches because I was riding far right in the hopes of triggering the motion sensors on the driveway lights. https://tinyurl.com/yh5oymcs Seeing in the dark is a problem for me. I skipped the rocky trail home and stuck to the road. A blinky or a be-seen light is fine for the arterials, although there are so many ambient light sources (including car headlights) that a low-output dyno might be less than optimal. I continue to believe that the best and most humane light to be seen is a pulsing light. A retina burning flasher is just too mean, except for selected drivers who deserve punishment.

Riding to work in the dark this morning, I couldn't see my dyno light on the ground, but the light was reflecting off the water thrown up by my front wheel, so I know it was on. It was raining hard, and my expectation of actual illumination was low.


"SMS" AKA Stephen M. Scharf now uses dyno lights himself, after decades
of ridiculing anyone who used them. Go figure!

He uses them as "be seen" lights.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 10:45:44 -0800 (PST),
jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 9:31:32 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/6/2020 11:55 AM, sms wrote:
On 1/5/2020 2:49 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

And I know, anyone who needs a bright light is an idiot --

Yes, 99.99% of U.S. cyclists that ride at night must be
idiots for using battery powered lights.

At least 40% of U.S. cyclists that ride at night use no
lights. In most cases it's because they are idiots, and that's
hard to fix. But in some cases, it's because they forgot their
light; or the battery ran down. Dyno lights fix both of those
problems.

That happens now and then. It happened to me a few weeks ago,
and I borrowed a blinky from a co-worker. On my way home up the
goat road, I kept falling into holes in the pavement and
whacking tree branches because I was riding far right in the
hopes of triggering the motion sensors on the driveway lights.
https://tinyurl.com/yh5oymcs Seeing in the dark is a problem
for me. I skipped the rocky trail home and stuck to the road.
A blinky or a be-seen light is fine for the arterials, although
there are so many ambient light sources (including car
headlights) that a low-output dyno might be less than optimal.
I continue to believe that the best and most humane light to be
seen is a pulsing light. A retina burning flasher is just too
mean, except for selected drivers who deserve punishment.

Good points, Jay. When I commuted regularly, I had a dual beam
powered by SLA. The low beam gave a decent view of the upcoming
pavement, and the high beam could be switched as needed to signal
oncoming drivers who had their brights on.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

On 1/6/2020 2:08 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 10:45:44 -0800 (PST),
jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 9:31:32 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/6/2020 11:55 AM, sms wrote:
On 1/5/2020 2:49 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

And I know, anyone who needs a bright light is an idiot --

Yes, 99.99% of U.S. cyclists that ride at night must be
idiots for using battery powered lights.

At least 40% of U.S. cyclists that ride at night use no
lights. In most cases it's because they are idiots, and that's
hard to fix. But in some cases, it's because they forgot their
light; or the battery ran down. Dyno lights fix both of those
problems.

That happens now and then. It happened to me a few weeks ago,
and I borrowed a blinky from a co-worker. On my way home up the
goat road, I kept falling into holes in the pavement and
whacking tree branches because I was riding far right in the
hopes of triggering the motion sensors on the driveway lights.
https://tinyurl.com/yh5oymcs Seeing in the dark is a problem
for me.

That must be the key to what's happening here. I have a friend who says
the same thing. He's a very quiet fellow, and I've never gotten details
from him.

https://www.webmd.com/eye-health/nig...ht-blindness#1

I skipped the rocky trail home and stuck to the road.
A blinky or a be-seen light is fine for the arterials, although
there are so many ambient light sources (including car
headlights) that a low-output dyno might be less than optimal.
I continue to believe that the best and most humane light to be
seen is a pulsing light. A retina burning flasher is just too
mean, except for selected drivers who deserve punishment.

Good points, Jay. When I commuted regularly, I had a dual beam
powered by SLA. The low beam gave a decent view of the upcoming
pavement, and the high beam could be switched as needed to signal
oncoming drivers who had their brights on.

Way back in the days of Sealed Lead Acid, I bought a Vistalight halogen
headlight powered by an external battery. I carried it back and forth to
work for a while and dutifully kept it charged. I thought I'd use it as
a high beam for my dyno halogen light, just turning it on when I needed
more light.

After a while, I stopped carrying it. I just never had a reason to use
it. This is not to say that the 2.4 Watt halogen dyno headlight was
perfect; but it was good enough. The few times on the route that I
thought "It could be brighter" I ended up just riding and watching more
carefully.

Now we have dyno lights that put out way more lumens, and if they have
optics properly designed to illuminate the riding surface, they give
light that seems luxurious to me. The B&M Cyo illuminates very evenly
and gives very good throw.

There may be a very few times I'd want a high beam, but they would be
rare. One is on a rail-trail I ride only rarely, that has a dip where it
passes under a bridge. (I can't really think of another.) But at this
point, we have the technology to add a high beam to a dyno light, if it
were marketable.

We also have - or will soon have - the technology to send light up and
to the right (in the U.S.) to both better light the way into tight dark
turns (like my driveway) or to shine a little brighter in the eyes of
motorists rushing up to a stop sign at the cyclist's right. I think that
could be done permanently with the existing single LEDs and careful
optics, or it could be done by secondary LEDs, perhaps switchable.

But I doubt those features would be very marketable. I think most people
using dyno lights would say the benefits are not worth the added expense.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 11:39:28 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/6/2020 2:08 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 10:45:44 -0800 (PST),
jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 9:31:32 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/6/2020 11:55 AM, sms wrote:
On 1/5/2020 2:49 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

And I know, anyone who needs a bright light is an idiot --

Yes, 99.99% of U.S. cyclists that ride at night must be
idiots for using battery powered lights.

At least 40% of U.S. cyclists that ride at night use no
lights. In most cases it's because they are idiots, and that's
hard to fix. But in some cases, it's because they forgot their
light; or the battery ran down. Dyno lights fix both of those
problems.

That happens now and then. It happened to me a few weeks ago,
and I borrowed a blinky from a co-worker. On my way home up the
goat road, I kept falling into holes in the pavement and
whacking tree branches because I was riding far right in the
hopes of triggering the motion sensors on the driveway lights.
https://tinyurl.com/yh5oymcs Seeing in the dark is a problem
for me.

That must be the key to what's happening here. I have a friend who says
the same thing. He's a very quiet fellow, and I've never gotten details
from him.

https://www.webmd.com/eye-health/nig...ht-blindness#1

I was talking about riding in the dark with a flea-watt blinky. Tinker Bell put out more light while dying. I wasn't criticizing the Luxos B, although it is worthy of criticism riding over the rip-rap on my way home. I'm O.K.. with low light conditions. What's hard is trying to see while getting blinded by headlights. That and riding in the rain with wet glasses. It's braille riding.



I skipped the rocky trail home and stuck to the road.
A blinky or a be-seen light is fine for the arterials, although
there are so many ambient light sources (including car
headlights) that a low-output dyno might be less than optimal.
I continue to believe that the best and most humane light to be
seen is a pulsing light. A retina burning flasher is just too
mean, except for selected drivers who deserve punishment.

Good points, Jay. When I commuted regularly, I had a dual beam
powered by SLA. The low beam gave a decent view of the upcoming
pavement, and the high beam could be switched as needed to signal
oncoming drivers who had their brights on.

Way back in the days of Sealed Lead Acid, I bought a Vistalight halogen
headlight powered by an external battery. I carried it back and forth to
work for a while and dutifully kept it charged. I thought I'd use it as
a high beam for my dyno halogen light, just turning it on when I needed
more light.

After a while, I stopped carrying it. I just never had a reason to use
it. This is not to say that the 2.4 Watt halogen dyno headlight was
perfect; but it was good enough. The few times on the route that I
thought "It could be brighter" I ended up just riding and watching more
carefully.

Now we have dyno lights that put out way more lumens, and if they have
optics properly designed to illuminate the riding surface, they give
light that seems luxurious to me. The B&M Cyo illuminates very evenly
and gives very good throw.

There may be a very few times I'd want a high beam, but they would be
rare. One is on a rail-trail I ride only rarely, that has a dip where it
passes under a bridge. (I can't really think of another.) But at this
point, we have the technology to add a high beam to a dyno light, if it
were marketable.

We also have - or will soon have - the technology to send light up and
to the right (in the U.S.) to both better light the way into tight dark
turns (like my driveway) or to shine a little brighter in the eyes of
motorists rushing up to a stop sign at the cyclist's right. I think that
could be done permanently with the existing single LEDs and careful
optics, or it could be done by secondary LEDs, perhaps switchable.

But I doubt those features would be very marketable. I think most people
using dyno lights would say the benefits are not worth the added expense.

Every person I know with a dyno -- which is like two or three people -- have multiple lights, and one guy in my building has three (including a really annoying helmet light right at eye level). I'll check the racks and see if there is a dyno person with only one light.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 1/6/2020 5:29 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

Every person I know with a dyno -- which is like two or three people -- have multiple lights, and one guy in my building has three (including a really annoying helmet light right at eye level). I'll check the racks and see if there is a dyno person with only one light.

I saw someone with only a dynamo light once.

On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 5:16:59 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:

Measuring with no load tells you the voltage which may not be
significant.
A dynohub rated at 6V 3W can produce 12 volts or more when it is rotated without a load, so all it tells you is that the hub is producing *some* electricity. However, the hub may actually be malfunctioning... for example, if there is a corroded electrical connection the voltage unloaded may be apparently normal but the hub won't power a light.