Recent fatal crash at UCLA

On Monday, September 17, 2012 10:52:10 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Dan O wrote:

On Sep 16, 9:09 pm, Frank

wrote:

The "what they want to sell" is key. A shop owner trying to clear out

stock, or an employee working on commission, may be highly motivated to

sell an expensive racing bike. When my (now former) paper boy got

taken... um, convinced to buy a racing bike, I assumed that's what

happened. When my elderly friend ended up with a racing bike, ditto.





He's either a sucker or (more likely since you were apparently unable

to get him straightened out) that's what he really wanted. Why don't

you save the crap you're giving us for him (or maybe you did and just

have enough to go around... and around).



The man in question didn't ask me. He showed me afterward, when it was

too late, and he was asking for advice on how to raise the handlebars so

he could reach them.


If it's the same guy I thought you were talking about, I think you said he was so dissatisfied that he gave up bicycling (that's what I meant by straighten him out).



BTW, it's obvious you're incapable of seeing the disconnect between your

use of phrases like "the crap you're giving us" and your complaints

about truly civil language that I use.



It' s not a matter of whether or not you wrap it in an elegant handkerchief.

On Monday, September 17, 2012 9:18:54 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 09/14/2012 09:00 PM, wrote:



snip



One more-- repeating, one of the very best in my experience is a guy

who rode his "touring" (utility, everyday, "beater") bike on our group

rides. Nobody cares (in my bunch) in the first place and for this guy,

it was just "more respect". "We" don't care what he rides, we care

about how he rides.



I can't believe this attitude is unknown away from my location.



Believe me, it's not.

While most of my club eventually move to road bikes, there are no

restrictions against using hybrids, much less touring bikes. Some of us

even use the beaters and touring bikes until the snow melts in the spring..



And it's just as you say, we care about how someone rides, not what

or how fast. You find a group that rides your speed. If you can do

35kph average on a hybrid, no one is going to tell you not to ride with

them. If you are the fastest rider in the club and can't hold a line,

no one will want to ride with you.



It would also be better off if there were less foaming at the mouth when

different opinions are expressed. But such is our culture, I guess.



So express opinions and leave off the nasty remarks. Make a positive

contribution to "our culture".



Good luck with that one.

I went for an introductory ride (club recovery ride day)with a bicycling club here in town prior to joining it. I had my sport-touring bike because the info on their site said the riding speeds weren't high on that ride. Ha, ha! Everyone on that ride had light-weight alloy or carbon fibre frame bikes and the average speed was very high. For me that ride was not enjoyable at all and as a result I didn't join that club. Also, not that I had them on my bike, no bikes with other than drop bars are allowed to ride with this club nor can you have aero bars.

There are three shops in town here that haqve group rides but not one of them has a ride suitable for the casual or newbie bicyclist. If you're a racer or a wannabe racer then you have three clubs to choose from. Otherwise you're sol.

Cheers

On Monday, September 17, 2012 11:10:07 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Dan O wrote:

On Sep 16, 9:51 pm, Frank

wrote:



snip





[much rehashing trimmed]





snip





It's not that I don't see benefits. It's far more likely that I

understand the benefits, and have judged them to, for me, not balance

the detriments.





For you. Sure. Fine. But your way is not the one right way (I'm

quite sure I've tried to tell you exactly that many times before).



I'm reminded of the time I was walking along and had a small, dopey,

hyperactive dog yapping obnoxiously and nipping at my heels.



"Down Boy"? :-)

We know Pink Floyd's "The Wall" ("When we grew up and went to school, There were certain teachers, Who would hurt the children any way they could, By pouring their derision... "), but are you also familiar with "Animals" ("Dogs", "Sheep", and "Pigs [three different kinds]")?

So I'm a small, dopey dog; and you're a rationalizing, self-important, prissy old fuddy-duddy.

That's the thing about "discussion" - you can go on and perceive it any way you want to. Just ask good ol' Charlie Sheen ("Winning!").

And flame wars don't do any good (except possibly to keep us from yelling at our wives).

On Monday, September 17, 2012 12:05:50 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, September 17, 2012 9:18:54 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:

On 09/14/2012 09:00 PM, dustoyevsky wrote:







snip







One more-- repeating, one of the very best in my experience is a guy



who rode his "touring" (utility, everyday, "beater") bike on our group



rides. Nobody cares (in my bunch) in the first place and for this guy,



it was just "more respect". "We" don't care what he rides, we care



about how he rides.







I can't believe this attitude is unknown away from my location.







Believe me, it's not.



While most of my club eventually move to road bikes, there are no



restrictions against using hybrids, much less touring bikes. Some of us



even use the beaters and touring bikes until the snow melts in the spring.







And it's just as you say, we care about how someone rides, not what



or how fast. You find a group that rides your speed. If you can do



35kph average on a hybrid, no one is going to tell you not to ride with



them. If you are the fastest rider in the club and can't hold a line,



no one will want to ride with you.







It would also be better off if there were less foaming at the mouth when



different opinions are expressed. But such is our culture, I guess.







So express opinions and leave off the nasty remarks. Make a positive



contribution to "our culture".







Good luck with that one.



I went for an introductory ride (club recovery ride day)with a bicycling club here in town prior to joining it. I had my sport-touring bike because the info on their site said the riding speeds weren't high on that ride. Ha, ha! Everyone on that ride had light-weight alloy or carbon fibre frame bikes and the average speed was very high. For me that ride was not enjoyable at all and as a result I didn't join that club. Also, not that I had them on my bike, no bikes with other than drop bars are allowed to ride with this club nor can you have aero bars.


So they ride on private land or something? What's to stop Pee-Wee from blowing by them on his cruiser, stopping to let them catch up, then doing it again?



There are three shops in town here that haqve group rides but not one of them has a ride suitable for the casual or newbie bicyclist. If you're a racer or a wannabe racer then you have three clubs to choose from. Otherwise you're sol.


Who wants to ride with people who would just run away from them?

On 9/17/2012 3:05 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, September 17, 2012 9:18:54 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 09/14/2012 09:00 PM, wrote:



snip



One more-- repeating, one of the very best in my experience is a guy

who rode his "touring" (utility, everyday, "beater") bike on our group

rides. Nobody cares (in my bunch) in the first place and for this guy,

it was just "more respect". "We" don't care what he rides, we care

about how he rides.



I can't believe this attitude is unknown away from my location.



Believe me, it's not.

While most of my club eventually move to road bikes, there are no

restrictions against using hybrids, much less touring bikes. Some of us

even use the beaters and touring bikes until the snow melts in the spring.



And it's just as you say, we care about how someone rides, not what

or how fast. You find a group that rides your speed. If you can do

35kph average on a hybrid, no one is going to tell you not to ride with

them. If you are the fastest rider in the club and can't hold a line,

no one will want to ride with you.



It would also be better off if there were less foaming at the mouth when

different opinions are expressed. But such is our culture, I guess.



So express opinions and leave off the nasty remarks. Make a positive

contribution to "our culture".



Good luck with that one.

I went for an introductory ride (club recovery ride day)with a bicycling club here in town prior to joining it. I had my sport-touring bike because the info on their site said the riding speeds weren't high on that ride. Ha, ha! Everyone on that ride had light-weight alloy or carbon fibre frame bikes and the average speed was very high. For me that ride was not enjoyable at all and as a result I didn't join that club. Also, not that I had them on my bike, no bikes with other than drop bars are allowed to ride with this club nor can you have aero bars.

There are three shops in town here that haqve group rides but not one of them has a ride suitable for the casual or newbie bicyclist. If you're a racer or a wannabe racer then you have three clubs to choose from. Otherwise you're sol.

Cheers

Most of the shops around here that have shop rides, have a ride for
normal humans and a ride for racers though the ride for normal humans is
usually less organized.

Our club has 450 members. We set groups with a max of 12 riders (Quebec
law restricts it to 15 but club policy is 12) and the groups are setup
based on average speed. Average speed meaning that at the end of the
ride, the average riding speed, not counting rest stop but counting red
lights, stops etc. So the average riding speed is usually a bit higher.
The usual groups are 20-23, 23-25, 25-28,28-31 and 31-34. There is a
racing group above that but I haven't ridden with them much as they tend
to get lost too often.

Aero bars are not allowed during group rides but only for TTs. But
straight bars are allowed.

The first 8 rides of the year have group leaders and the idea is to get
people that are new acclimated. This means making sure that they know
how to ride safely in groups and they find a speed that's comfortable.

On 9/17/2012 12:08 PM, Kerry Montgomery wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 09/14/2012 11:23 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:39:15 -0700, "Kerry Montgomery"
wrote:

Frank Krygowski,
Your original statement:
"I've never used them, so they can't be essential."
No indication, obvious or otherwise, that you were referring to only
yourself.

Obviously, a jersey with three pockets in back and two in front is
essential for bicycle riding. I'd collapse like a marionette with cut
strings if I couldn't reach into my right front pocket for a starlight
mint at appropriate intervals.

NOTHING is essential for riding a bike, except two wheels -- and
that's only because you have to call it riding a unicycle when you
have only one, and walking if you haven't any.


+1. Well two wheels and your butt somewhere on the contraption. Time to
be essential...

Duane,
One person's essential is not another's:
http://my.opera.com/badmadcyclist/bl...averse-jumpers
Kerry



LOL. I meant in the sense of getting you on the bike to ride, but I see
your point.

On Monday, September 17, 2012 4:15:55 PM UTC-4, Dan O wrote:
On Monday, September 17, 2012 12:05:50 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

On Monday, September 17, 2012 9:18:54 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:



On 09/14/2012 09:00 PM, dustoyevsky wrote:















snip















One more-- repeating, one of the very best in my experience is a guy







who rode his "touring" (utility, everyday, "beater") bike on our group







rides. Nobody cares (in my bunch) in the first place and for this guy,







it was just "more respect". "We" don't care what he rides, we care







about how he rides.















I can't believe this attitude is unknown away from my location.















Believe me, it's not.







While most of my club eventually move to road bikes, there are no







restrictions against using hybrids, much less touring bikes. Some of us







even use the beaters and touring bikes until the snow melts in the spring.















And it's just as you say, we care about how someone rides, not what







or how fast. You find a group that rides your speed. If you can do







35kph average on a hybrid, no one is going to tell you not to ride with







them. If you are the fastest rider in the club and can't hold a line,







no one will want to ride with you.















It would also be better off if there were less foaming at the mouth when







different opinions are expressed. But such is our culture, I guess.















So express opinions and leave off the nasty remarks. Make a positive







contribution to "our culture".















Good luck with that one.







I went for an introductory ride (club recovery ride day)with a bicycling club here in town prior to joining it. I had my sport-touring bike because the info on their site said the riding speeds weren't high on that ride. Ha, ha! Everyone on that ride had light-weight alloy or carbon fibre frame bikes and the average speed was very high. For me that ride was not enjoyable at all and as a result I didn't join that club. Also, not that I had them on my bike, no bikes with other than drop bars are allowed to ride with this club nor can you have aero bars.





So they ride on private land or something? What's to stop Pee-Wee from blowing by them on his cruiser, stopping to let them catch up, then doing it again?







There are three shops in town here that haqve group rides but not one of them has a ride suitable for the casual or newbie bicyclist. If you're a racer or a wannabe racer then you have three clubs to choose from. Otherwise you're sol.





Who wants to ride with people who would just run away from them?

They ride on public roads but they do *NOT* allow riders with either straight bars or aero-bars to join their groups.

It seems to me that a club or an organized group ride for both newbie and casual riders would be a great way to promote safe bicycling. Not everyone wants to be a racer. Besides, then the newbie or casual rider might buy more stuff from those shops.

So the newbie or casual rider looking to for a group to ride with is left asking where do I go to learn the skills to ride in a fast paced group? Their often just left to learn on there own. Things might be different in big cities but this city only has about 200,000 population max.

Cheers

On 17/09/12 15:05, Frank Krygowski wrote:
James wrote:
On 14/09/12 14:58, Dan O wrote:
On Sep 13, 8:02 pm, Frank
wrote:
James wrote:

snip


Leg and arm warmers that also make temperature adjustments easy. You
can
take arm and leg warmers off without stopping, with a little practice.

Yes, you're right, I can. They're fine for minimum packing volume, long
rides with big temperature changes, like an autumn century ride. Yet
many riders ride all their lives without them, so their value is not
great.


I had to come back to the arm and leg warmers, because you have really
missed the boat here. They are great for leaving the house before
sunup when it's chilly, but can be adjusted as my body warms up from
riding, and adjusted more or even taken off when the sun comes up.
This is a realistic scenario for me much of the year. The arm and
knee and leg warmers are fantastic. My favorites are wool, which is
great stuff (though i'm not sure it's sutiable for your stylin' around
and making a impression after you've gotten off the bike... and combed
your hair, of course - a comb being one of your "essentials", IIRC).

*I've* never used a comb while biking, or carried one while biking,
therefore a comb is not essential.

Of course, you've made it clear that your rides are essentially all
sport or training rides.

I'm taking a class. I frequently ride my bike to that class. Another
student frequently goes to the gym just before class. He apparently
showers afterwards, towel dries his hair, never touches it with a comb,
and drives to class. He almost always enters with his hair sticking out
in all directions.

I'm not the only one in that class who thinks that's pretty weird. But
of course, YMMV.


You're wrong. My hair is so short, in fact nonexistent in parts, a comb
is useless.

--
JS.

On 18/09/12 02:26, Kerry Montgomery wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 17/09/12 11:14, Tom $herman (-_-) wrote:
On 9/16/2012 5:47 PM, James wrote:
And don't hark back to helmets. In this country it's the LAW.

Well, that is just as stupid as letting Rupert Murdoch run the country.


Here it was Frank then Kerry and now James Packer.

Are you saying I'm stupid, or like Rupert Murdoch, or running the country,
or something else?

Kerry,

Firstly, I meant "here" as in Australia, not here on wreck bicycles.

Secondly. different Kerry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerry_Packer

--
JS.

"Duane" wrote in message
...
On 9/17/2012 12:08 PM, Kerry Montgomery wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 09/14/2012 11:23 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:39:15 -0700, "Kerry Montgomery"
wrote:

Frank Krygowski,
Your original statement:
"I've never used them, so they can't be essential."
No indication, obvious or otherwise, that you were referring to only
yourself.

Obviously, a jersey with three pockets in back and two in front is
essential for bicycle riding. I'd collapse like a marionette with cut
strings if I couldn't reach into my right front pocket for a starlight
mint at appropriate intervals.

NOTHING is essential for riding a bike, except two wheels -- and
that's only because you have to call it riding a unicycle when you
have only one, and walking if you haven't any.


+1. Well two wheels and your butt somewhere on the contraption. Time
to
be essential...

Duane,
One person's essential is not another's:
http://my.opera.com/badmadcyclist/bl...averse-jumpers
Kerry



LOL. I meant in the sense of getting you on the bike to ride, but I see
your point.

The trials guys do amazing stuff. I could pretend to be a racer or a tourer,
even a track rider, but the trials riders are a dfferent species!