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#1
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2nd-hand track bike - advice needed
(X-POST: aus.bicycle, rec.bicycles.misc)
I spotted this bike for sale and spoke to the owner. I'd like any opinions about such a setup as a beginner track bike: Track Bike with 22inch frame (55cm) Brooks saddle ($200AUD new?) Reynolds 351 tubing (I assume he means 531?) extra wheels for training, Campag record hubs ($400AUD new) Conti singles (used once) Look clipless pedals Cinelli alu bar/stem Sugino cranks 6 chainrings Shimano size 44 shoes HomeMageTrainer $650AUD Without the trainer and shoes, he wants $500AUD which is about the cost of a new Miche track groupset these days, I believe. He said the frame is 30 years old but in top condition and really stiff - but then of course he is going to say that! 55cm is slightly smaller than the 56cm road frame I currently ride - does track geometry differ vastly from road geometry? Would this be in my region for sizing? It has brand new singles which he said had been raced on once and are quite expensive, along with Record hubs and even a spare set of wheels which, I assume, take clincher tyres for training rides. I have a frame sitting at home that I was going to build into a cheap track bike but I just can't get cheap parts for it quick enough so this looks like the next best thing. It's still cheaper than buying a new track bike for ~$1000AUD. So, assuming this bike is in good condition, would you recommend it? What would you look for in a second hand track bike? What questions should I ask the guy before driving miles away to check it out? What should I look for on it if I do drive miles away to check it out? Thanks for any suggestions, hippy |
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#2
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2nd-hand track bike - advice needed
On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 23:51:06 +1000, hippy wrote:
(X-POST: aus.bicycle, rec.bicycles.misc) I spotted this bike for sale and spoke to the owner. I'd like any opinions about such a setup as a beginner track bike: Track Bike with 22inch frame (55cm) Brooks saddle ($200AUD new?) Without the trainer and shoes, he wants $500AUD which is about the cost of a new Miche track groupset these days, I believe. He said the frame is 30 years old but in top condition and really stiff - but then of course he is going to say that! Well, the thirty years old is probably true, if it's 531. I ride such a track bike. The condition of the bike and the saddle (if you want a Brooks saddle) will matter a lot in terms of its value. 55cm is slightly smaller than the 56cm road frame I currently ride - does track geometry differ vastly from road geometry? Would this be in my region for sizing? Probably. It used to be standard advice to go about 1cm smaller in a track frame -- but that was in the days when road frames were typically sized larger than today. You will also have to check out top tube length and other things to see if it really fits. Geometry of a track bike of that vintage was steep and tight for the time, which makes it about standard for road bikes now. It has brand new singles which he said had been raced on once and are quite expensive, It does depend on how long they have sat in the garage since. along with Record hubs and even a spare set of wheels which, I assume, take clincher tyres for training rides. I have a frame sitting at home that I was going to build into a cheap track bike but I just can't get cheap parts for it quick enough so this looks like the next best thing. It's still cheaper than buying a new track bike for ~$1000AUD. Well, yes. It will be heavier, too. To compare this to a new track bike, the frame itself will be a pound to two pounds heavier. It will not be as stiff as a typical aluminum frame you can get now. The components are good -- if the hubs have been taken care of. Those Campy hubs were beautifully made. I still have a set, though I don't use them since they are still laced up to tubular rims. So, assuming this bike is in good condition, would you recommend it? Possibly What would you look for in a second hand track bike? Frame condition; evidence of crashes or serious repair. What questions should I ask the guy before driving miles away to check it out? He's probably not going to tell you if he has crashed -- or how badly -- or if a tube has been replaced. Ask him what brand it is. That can tell you a lot about the initial quality. If it's a Cinelli or Masi, then at least at one time it was definitely worth something. If it's a post-1972 Legnano, maybe not. What should I look for on it if I do drive miles away to check it out? Ride it. See how it feels. Is it the type of bike you are looking for? Track bikes are not all alike. Back then, a sprint bike would have round fork tubes, really beefy lugs, steep angles, and would be strongly built for the abuse a sprinter would mete out. A pursuit bike would have more road-like angles and lugs, would be somewhat lighter (by the standards of the day), and might be more comfortable for road use. Are you planning to race this?* What event? For a pursuit specialist I can't see getting 30-year old iron. You give away too much weight penalty, when for a few hundred more you can get something built for the task. Sprinters are more conservative, and still tend to ride strong, heavier bikes (I've seen steel bars on some even recently), so that would not be so much of a negative. If you are just going to ride it, on the road, go for what you like. However, do plan to hang a brake on the front -- and make sure the crown can be drilled without problems. Mine has a big, thick Nervex crown which is vastly overengineered; drilling that was no problem. -- David L. Johnson __o | If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a _`\(,_ | conclusion. -- George Bernard Shaw (_)/ (_) | |
#3
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2nd-hand track bike - advice needed
David Johnson covers this much more thoroughly than I can, but I'll refer
you to the fixed gear list at: http://lists.davintech.ca -- alan Anyone who believes in a liberal media has never read the "Daily Oklahoman." "hippy" wrote in message ... (X-POST: aus.bicycle, rec.bicycles.misc) I spotted this bike for sale and spoke to the owner. I'd like any opinions about such a setup as a beginner track bike: Track Bike with 22inch frame (55cm) Brooks saddle ($200AUD new?) Reynolds 351 tubing (I assume he means 531?) extra wheels for training, Campag record hubs ($400AUD new) Conti singles (used once) Look clipless pedals Cinelli alu bar/stem Sugino cranks 6 chainrings Shimano size 44 shoes HomeMageTrainer $650AUD |
#4
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2nd-hand track bike - advice needed
"hippy" wrote in message ... lots of good stuff about a lovely sounding track bike For $500, how far wrong can you go? Even if the frame is complete junk, I'm sure it'd have $500 worth of parts on it. Is it actually possible to have too many bikes? Regards, Suzy PS: If you do decide you don't want it, please let me know the details of the seller so I can buy it |
#5
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2nd-hand track bike - advice needed
"David L. Johnson" wrote in message
... sized larger than today. You will also have to check out top tube length and other things to see if it really fits. How much adjustment could I expect from a track stem in terms of fore/aft movement, if the top tube length wasn't optimal? Well, yes. It will be heavier, too. To compare this to a new track bike, the frame itself will be a pound to two pounds heavier. It will not be as stiff as a typical aluminum frame you can get now. The components are Does weight really matter that much on a track bike? Especially one used by a total track novice? He's probably not going to tell you if he has crashed -- or how badly -- or if a tube has been replaced. Ask him what brand it is. I did ask about brand and he didn't know, so I guess he bought it second hand as well. It's probably had 20 coats of paint in its 30 year life. If I do go and have a look at it, I'll check for any distictive markings. Actually if I did drive to look at it I'd probably just buy it :-) you a lot about the initial quality. If it's a Cinelli or Masi, then at least at one time it was definitely worth something. If it's a post-1972 Legnano, maybe not. Other than paint and stickers, is there any way to tell what brand it could be? Are you planning to race this? What event? For a pursuit specialist I can't see getting 30-year old iron. You give away too much weight penalty, when for a few hundred more you can get something built for the task. Sprinters are more conservative, and still tend to ride strong, heavier bikes (I've seen steel bars on some even recently), so that would not be so much of a negative. Well, I want to give track racing a shot. It's difficult/impossible for me to arrive early enough to use club bikes and I wanted to avoid spending $1k on a new one. As for types of events, I have no idea. I doubt I will be very competitive starting out anyway. If you are just going to ride it, on the road, go for what you like. However, do plan to hang a brake on the front -- and make sure the crown can be drilled without problems. Mine has a big, thick Nervex crown which is vastly overengineered; drilling that was no problem. That is a slight problem - I would like to try fixed-gear on the road but track bikes have no brakes. I will have to check out the crown as you say. What are the chances of fitting a different fork to it for road use? Thanks muchly, hippy |
#6
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2nd-hand track bike - advice needed
"Suzy Jackson" wrote in message
... For $500, how far wrong can you go? Even if the frame is complete junk, I'm sure it'd have $500 worth of parts on it. Yeah, well that's what I was thinking. It does sound to me like a pretty good option - but I don't know anything about track bikes, hence this post. Is it actually possible to have too many bikes? Well, I have 7 at the moment (after getting rid of the kiddy bike) and I am quite low on space in my unit with all my other crap... But I'll always find room for another bike :-) PS: If you do decide you don't want it, please let me know the details of the seller so I can buy it I will do that. hippy |
#7
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2nd-hand track bike - advice needed
On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 23:54:49 +0000, hippy wrote:
"David L. Johnson" wrote in message ... sized larger than today. You will also have to check out top tube length and other things to see if it really fits. How much adjustment could I expect from a track stem in terms of fore/aft movement, if the top tube length wasn't optimal? Huh? You might mean one of two things here. 1) How many other "track stems" are available, and in what lengths. The answer to that is that there is not really a "track stem", any good stem will do. Hard core sprinters may want something really beefy, but for most of us, there is no problem. Now, you mentioned Cinelli bars. You need a stem that matches the Cinelli 26.4mm diameter. That is not easy to find these days, but some do exist. You can also get new bars for a reasonable price and use commonly-available stems. 2) There are a few _adjustable_ stems out there, including some commonly used on track bikes. Major Taylor invented an early adjustable stem. Maybe this bike has one? If so, typically they have quite a bit of adjustment. Does weight really matter that much on a track bike? Especially one used by a total track novice? No, not really. As a bike to get you into the sport, it could be just fine. If it's in good condition it'll get a lot of appreciative attention. Actually if I did drive to look at it I'd probably just buy it :-) I probably would, too. Other than paint and stickers, is there any way to tell what brand it could be? Sure, within reason. All three of the brands I mentioned are pretty distincitive. Lug design is key to determining brand for many frames. But a lot of good frames used lugs like Nervex, so it would be hard to tell one of those from another -- and it wouldn't matter much, since those would all be pretty similar -- and good quality. That is a slight problem - I would like to try fixed-gear on the road but track bikes have no brakes. I will have to check out the crown as you say. What are the chances of fitting a different fork to it for road use? Pretty good, actually. Modern forks tend to be 700c with tight clearances and short rake, quite similar to track forks of the 70s in size and rake. The crown height might be a bit more than this old one, but probably not enough to matter. But swapping out a fork would be tedius if you are going to use a separate fork for the road. You can, of course, use a new fork on the track and even save a bit of weight. On the other hand, a good fork might cost what this bike costs. I drilled a hole in my fork crown 30 years ago, and it hasn't broken yet. A pursuit bike might have been a different story, though. -- David L. Johnson __o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is _`\(,_ | not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. (_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy |
#8
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2nd-hand track bike - advice needed
i'd buy it so long as the frame is still straight.
a slightly smaller frame on the tarck is ok. "David L. Johnson" wrote in message ... On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 23:51:06 +1000, hippy wrote: (X-POST: aus.bicycle, rec.bicycles.misc) I spotted this bike for sale and spoke to the owner. I'd like any opinions about such a setup as a beginner track bike: Track Bike with 22inch frame (55cm) Brooks saddle ($200AUD new?) Without the trainer and shoes, he wants $500AUD which is about the cost of a new Miche track groupset these days, I believe. He said the frame is 30 years old but in top condition and really stiff - but then of course he is going to say that! Well, the thirty years old is probably true, if it's 531. I ride such a track bike. The condition of the bike and the saddle (if you want a Brooks saddle) will matter a lot in terms of its value. 55cm is slightly smaller than the 56cm road frame I currently ride - does track geometry differ vastly from road geometry? Would this be in my region for sizing? Probably. It used to be standard advice to go about 1cm smaller in a track frame -- but that was in the days when road frames were typically sized larger than today. You will also have to check out top tube length and other things to see if it really fits. Geometry of a track bike of that vintage was steep and tight for the time, which makes it about standard for road bikes now. It has brand new singles which he said had been raced on once and are quite expensive, It does depend on how long they have sat in the garage since. along with Record hubs and even a spare set of wheels which, I assume, take clincher tyres for training rides. I have a frame sitting at home that I was going to build into a cheap track bike but I just can't get cheap parts for it quick enough so this looks like the next best thing. It's still cheaper than buying a new track bike for ~$1000AUD. Well, yes. It will be heavier, too. To compare this to a new track bike, the frame itself will be a pound to two pounds heavier. It will not be as stiff as a typical aluminum frame you can get now. The components are good -- if the hubs have been taken care of. Those Campy hubs were beautifully made. I still have a set, though I don't use them since they are still laced up to tubular rims. So, assuming this bike is in good condition, would you recommend it? Possibly What would you look for in a second hand track bike? Frame condition; evidence of crashes or serious repair. What questions should I ask the guy before driving miles away to check it out? He's probably not going to tell you if he has crashed -- or how badly -- or if a tube has been replaced. Ask him what brand it is. That can tell you a lot about the initial quality. If it's a Cinelli or Masi, then at least at one time it was definitely worth something. If it's a post-1972 Legnano, maybe not. What should I look for on it if I do drive miles away to check it out? Ride it. See how it feels. Is it the type of bike you are looking for? Track bikes are not all alike. Back then, a sprint bike would have round fork tubes, really beefy lugs, steep angles, and would be strongly built for the abuse a sprinter would mete out. A pursuit bike would have more road-like angles and lugs, would be somewhat lighter (by the standards of the day), and might be more comfortable for road use. Are you planning to race this? What event? For a pursuit specialist I can't see getting 30-year old iron. You give away too much weight penalty, when for a few hundred more you can get something built for the task. Sprinters are more conservative, and still tend to ride strong, heavier bikes (I've seen steel bars on some even recently), so that would not be so much of a negative. If you are just going to ride it, on the road, go for what you like. However, do plan to hang a brake on the front -- and make sure the crown can be drilled without problems. Mine has a big, thick Nervex crown which is vastly overengineered; drilling that was no problem. -- David L. Johnson __o | If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a _`\(,_ | conclusion. -- George Bernard Shaw (_)/ (_) | |
#9
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2nd-hand track bike - advice needed
"David L. Johnson" wrote in message
... How much adjustment could I expect from a track stem in terms of fore/aft movement, if the top tube length wasn't optimal? Huh? You might mean one of two things here. 1) How many other "track stems" are available, and in what lengths. Yeah, that was what I meant. 2) There are a few _adjustable_ stems out there, including some Nope, not adjustable. Actually if I did drive to look at it I'd probably just buy it :-) I probably would, too. You're supposed to talk me out of it ;-) use a new fork on the track and even save a bit of weight. On the other hand, a good fork might cost what this bike costs. I drilled a hole in my fork crown 30 years ago, and it hasn't broken yet. A pursuit bike might have been a different story, though. I think I will just have a look at it and decide on a course of action from there. I might see how computer literate he is - he may be able to email me some pictures of it? Thanks again, hippy |
#10
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2nd-hand track bike - advice needed
"hippy" wrote in message
... Track Bike with 22inch frame (55cm) Brooks saddle ($200AUD new?) Reynolds 351 tubing (I assume he means 531?) extra wheels for training, Campag record hubs ($400AUD new) Conti singles (used once) Look clipless pedals Cinelli alu bar/stem Sugino cranks 6 chainrings Well thanks everyone and sorry Suzy J but I bought this nice little ride tonight! :-) Another bike for me yay! Another bike for me yay! I tell you what though... I've got some SERIOUS learning to do with that fixed gear!!! It's totally freaky.. can't corner like normal, freak coz I can't grab my brakes for a trackstand like normal, can't trackstand pretty much at all on this compared to my freewheel fitted bikes... No brakes makes stopping VERY difficult - I mean sure, you can slow down with back pressure (which in itself feels weird) but you can't just STOP like you would with brakes. Scary! The bike itself appears to be in top condition as the owner said. Came with a bunch of rings, some cogs, tools, spare wheels.. uh everything listed above :-) It's blue with yellow Gibson stickers, yellow bar tape. I'll get some photos on the web soon but until then, any suggestions on the best way to learn these things? I don't think I will be able to fit brakes to the fork crown so I'm not going to be heading out on the road any time soon.. is a velodrome my only other option? Suggested starter gear? Should I go for the lowest or not? It has 49/16 on it at the moment. The lowest would be a 45/17 combo. Yeah, totally freaky experience not being able to back pedal - I must level out the cranks ALL the time with a freewheel! stay tuned... hippy |
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