Dropper posts for every bike?

On 12/3/2019 6:44 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:03:33 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 6:14:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 5:54 AM, Duane wrote:


I used DT friction shifters for years. I can’t imagine anyone preferring
them over brifters but whatever floats their boat.

Like Eddie Merckx said (paraphrasing) it doesn’t matter how long or short
you ride. Or how fast or slow. Just ride. I would also add, and STFU
criticizing other riders preferences.

Oh, good grief!

As I've said dozens of times: This is a _discussion_ group. We discuss
things. If you're so insecure that you can't tolerate any disagreement
with your choices, why would you enter a discussion about your choices?

Furthermore, if you pretend instead to defend _others'_ free choices,
perhaps you should stop sniping at only those who differ from you.

Contrary to certain posters' whining, I don't say "You shouldn't use
[whatever] equipment." But I do frequently point out that for much
equipment, the near-magical claims are exaggerated, or irrelevant to
most people's riding.

And I think I have a tendency to quantify things. Quantification
shouldn't be sneered at in a "tech" group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Wow, wow. Frank you started this thread. Read your first post. What was your intention when you wrote
'If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite. '? Trying to be funny? What did you quantify? In my world it is a silly insinuation.

Lou

I won't comment on Franks intent but read the resulting answers. It
appears that without, at the minimum, STI brake-shifters it is nearly
impossible to enjoy riding a bicycle these days.

My intent was to be a little funny, and also to see what the answers
would be, based on discussions we'd recently been through regarding
electronic shifting, disc brakes, aerodynamic frames, carbon fiber, etc.

Honestly, I was hoping that someone would say "Well, _that_ [dropper
posts on a road bike] would make sense only for professional road racers
trying for the ultimate speed on really hairy descents." IOW, I was
hoping people would begin to distinguish between what's best for top
level racers, vs. what's really best for more ordinary riders. I was
wrong, I guess.

And let me emphasize, I'm not trying to forbid anyone buying electronic
shifting, disc brakes, aero wheels, aero frames, 13 cogs or whatever.
Gold plate your spokes, if you think it will help.

But if you come here talking about how wonderful it is, prepare for
factual discussion.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/3/2019 7:22 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
As I've also said before, with the Ergo shifters, on either my touring bike or my road bike, I shift more often which in turns makes bicycling for me more efficient which means I go just as far with less wasted energy or I ride further using the same amount of energy.

Did you really see a measurable benefit?

For me, I went from five rear cogs to six, to seven, then to 9 on
various bikes. Certainly, with a 9 speed it's often easier to find
exactly the right gear than with 5 cogs and half-step chainrings,
because the latter more often requires a double shift. But more cogs has
never yielded noticeably more speed or endurance for me. I got older and
slower anyway.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 12:44:11 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:03:33 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 6:14:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 5:54 AM, Duane wrote:


I used DT friction shifters for years. I can’t imagine anyone preferring
them over brifters but whatever floats their boat.

Like Eddie Merckx said (paraphrasing) it doesn’t matter how long or short
you ride. Or how fast or slow. Just ride. I would also add, and STFU
criticizing other riders preferences.

Oh, good grief!

As I've said dozens of times: This is a _discussion_ group. We discuss
things. If you're so insecure that you can't tolerate any disagreement
with your choices, why would you enter a discussion about your choices?

Furthermore, if you pretend instead to defend _others'_ free choices,
perhaps you should stop sniping at only those who differ from you.

Contrary to certain posters' whining, I don't say "You shouldn't use
[whatever] equipment." But I do frequently point out that for much
equipment, the near-magical claims are exaggerated, or irrelevant to
most people's riding.

And I think I have a tendency to quantify things. Quantification
shouldn't be sneered at in a "tech" group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Wow, wow. Frank you started this thread. Read your first post. What was your intention when you wrote
'If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite. '? Trying to be funny? What did you quantify? In my world it is a silly insinuation.

Lou

I won't comment on Franks intent but read the resulting answers. It
appears that without, at the minimum, STI brake-shifters it is nearly
impossible to enjoy riding a bicycle these days.

No one said that only that it makes a ride more pleasant or more safe in some situation (of road on slippery, bumpy and twisting single track for instance)


Has cycling been reduced to a dollars and cents level where riding a
$4,000 bicycle (as one poster has frequently mentioned) results in a
more enjoyable ride?

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people spend on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.


On a personal basis, I enjoy riding a bicycle. I enjoy riding my bike
with the down tube shifters and I enjoy riding another bike with STI
shifters and, I might add, when I was 12 years old I enjoyed riding my
single speed bike with the coaster brake.

Good for you.


Will one enjoy it more if one installs $1,500 set of electric shifters
on their bike?

For some it does for some it doesn't matter. Like Andrew said here often choice is good and one should respect ones choice and not make snotty, belittling remarks about them.

Or has cycling become just another example of macho behavior where the
guy with the most "stiff" on his bike deems himself to be somehow
better?

No one is saying that here. In an hour I'm off to a LBS to configure a new gravel bike and trading in my 16 year old Litespeed which I'm using now for winter evening/bad weather rides because I ride all year round and in almost every weather conditions. The comments about new modern equipment of all the 'azijn ****ers' (Dutch) here made me decide not to share the outcome of it here. F*ck em.

Lou

Lou

On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 23:13:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 12:44:11 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:03:33 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 6:14:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 5:54 AM, Duane wrote:


I used DT friction shifters for years. I can’t imagine anyone preferring
them over brifters but whatever floats their boat.

Like Eddie Merckx said (paraphrasing) it doesn’t matter how long or short
you ride. Or how fast or slow. Just ride. I would also add, and STFU
criticizing other riders preferences.

Oh, good grief!

As I've said dozens of times: This is a _discussion_ group. We discuss
things. If you're so insecure that you can't tolerate any disagreement
with your choices, why would you enter a discussion about your choices?

Furthermore, if you pretend instead to defend _others'_ free choices,
perhaps you should stop sniping at only those who differ from you.

Contrary to certain posters' whining, I don't say "You shouldn't use
[whatever] equipment." But I do frequently point out that for much
equipment, the near-magical claims are exaggerated, or irrelevant to
most people's riding.

And I think I have a tendency to quantify things. Quantification
shouldn't be sneered at in a "tech" group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Wow, wow. Frank you started this thread. Read your first post. What was your intention when you wrote
'If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite. '? Trying to be funny? What did you quantify? In my world it is a silly insinuation.

Lou

I won't comment on Franks intent but read the resulting answers. It
appears that without, at the minimum, STI brake-shifters it is nearly
impossible to enjoy riding a bicycle these days.

No one said that only that it makes a ride more pleasant or more safe in some situation (of road on slippery, bumpy and twisting single track for instance)



Has cycling been reduced to a dollars and cents level where riding a
$4,000 bicycle (as one poster has frequently mentioned) results in a
more enjoyable ride?

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people spend on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Yes, of course. After all buying a big car certainly shows the world
just how big a man you are.... even though you paid a dollar down and
a dollar a week for the rest of your life. And of course, the neighbor
who bought that little imported car for cash is demonstrating just how
insignificant he is.

--
cheers,

John B.

On 12/4/2019 2:13 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 12:44:11 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:03:33 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 6:14:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 5:54 AM, Duane wrote:


I used DT friction shifters for years. I can’t imagine anyone preferring
them over brifters but whatever floats their boat.

Like Eddie Merckx said (paraphrasing) it doesn’t matter how long or short
you ride. Or how fast or slow. Just ride. I would also add, and STFU
criticizing other riders preferences.

Oh, good grief!

As I've said dozens of times: This is a _discussion_ group. We discuss
things. If you're so insecure that you can't tolerate any disagreement
with your choices, why would you enter a discussion about your choices?

Furthermore, if you pretend instead to defend _others'_ free choices,
perhaps you should stop sniping at only those who differ from you.

Contrary to certain posters' whining, I don't say "You shouldn't use
[whatever] equipment." But I do frequently point out that for much
equipment, the near-magical claims are exaggerated, or irrelevant to
most people's riding.

And I think I have a tendency to quantify things. Quantification
shouldn't be sneered at in a "tech" group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Wow, wow. Frank you started this thread. Read your first post. What was your intention when you wrote
'If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite. '? Trying to be funny? What did you quantify? In my world it is a silly insinuation.

Lou

I won't comment on Franks intent but read the resulting answers. It
appears that without, at the minimum, STI brake-shifters it is nearly
impossible to enjoy riding a bicycle these days.

No one said that only that it makes a ride more pleasant or more safe in some situation (of road on slippery, bumpy and twisting single track for instance)


Has cycling been reduced to a dollars and cents level where riding a
$4,000 bicycle (as one poster has frequently mentioned) results in a
more enjoyable ride?

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people spend on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.


On a personal basis, I enjoy riding a bicycle. I enjoy riding my bike
with the down tube shifters and I enjoy riding another bike with STI
shifters and, I might add, when I was 12 years old I enjoyed riding my
single speed bike with the coaster brake.

Good for you.


Will one enjoy it more if one installs $1,500 set of electric shifters
on their bike?

For some it does for some it doesn't matter. Like Andrew said here often choice is good and one should respect ones choice and not make snotty, belittling remarks about them.

Or has cycling become just another example of macho behavior where the
guy with the most "stiff" on his bike deems himself to be somehow
better?


But you guys aren't the ones belittling anyone...

No one is saying that here. In an hour I'm off to a LBS to configure a new gravel bike and trading in my 16 year old Litespeed which I'm using now for winter evening/bad weather rides because I ride all year round and in almost every weather conditions. The comments about new modern equipment of all the 'azijn ****ers' (Dutch) here made me decide not to share the outcome of it here. F*ck em.


You misspelled "**** em" Lou.

On 12/3/2019 11:13 PM, wrote:

snip

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people spend on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Probably We all buy things that others question the value of. If someone
wants to spend their discretionary income on a fancier car, nicer
clothes, a bigger house, the most expensive smart phone, a beautiful
garden, $200 meal, costly jewelry, or a $4000 bicycle, it's fine. At
least it's something tangible that they enjoy.

On 12/4/2019 9:14 AM, sms wrote:
On 12/3/2019 11:13 PM, wrote:

snip

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people
spend on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Probably We all buy things that others question the value of. If someone
wants to spend their discretionary income on a fancier car, nicer
clothes, a bigger house, the most expensive smart phone, a beautiful
garden, $200 meal, costly jewelry, or a $4000 bicycle, it's fine. At
least it's something tangible that they enjoy.

Yes, that's fine.

But if someone comes onto a bicycle technical discussion group and says
electronic shifting is much more reliable than cable-operated shifting,
that is a statement about facts, not preferences. And that should be
open to discussion.

The same is true if someone says modern frames climb faster because they
are more rigid; or road bike headlights need to shine brightly upward to
spot tree branches; or toe clips can work as well as clipless pedals, etc.

Too many people here treat opposing opinions as attacks on their
intelligence or character.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 2:11:50 AM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 23:13:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 12:44:11 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:03:33 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 6:14:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 5:54 AM, Duane wrote:


I used DT friction shifters for years. I can’t imagine anyone preferring
them over brifters but whatever floats their boat.

Like Eddie Merckx said (paraphrasing) it doesn’t matter how long or short
you ride. Or how fast or slow. Just ride. I would also add, and STFU
criticizing other riders preferences.

Oh, good grief!

As I've said dozens of times: This is a _discussion_ group. We discuss
things. If you're so insecure that you can't tolerate any disagreement
with your choices, why would you enter a discussion about your choices?

Furthermore, if you pretend instead to defend _others'_ free choices,
perhaps you should stop sniping at only those who differ from you.

Contrary to certain posters' whining, I don't say "You shouldn't use
[whatever] equipment." But I do frequently point out that for much
equipment, the near-magical claims are exaggerated, or irrelevant to
most people's riding.

And I think I have a tendency to quantify things. Quantification
shouldn't be sneered at in a "tech" group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Wow, wow. Frank you started this thread. Read your first post. What was your intention when you wrote
'If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite. '? Trying to be funny? What did you quantify? In my world it is a silly insinuation.

Lou

I won't comment on Franks intent but read the resulting answers. It
appears that without, at the minimum, STI brake-shifters it is nearly
impossible to enjoy riding a bicycle these days.

No one said that only that it makes a ride more pleasant or more safe in some situation (of road on slippery, bumpy and twisting single track for instance)



Has cycling been reduced to a dollars and cents level where riding a
$4,000 bicycle (as one poster has frequently mentioned) results in a
more enjoyable ride?

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people spend on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Yes, of course. After all buying a big car certainly shows the world
just how big a man you are.... even though you paid a dollar down and
a dollar a week for the rest of your life. And of course, the neighbor
who bought that little imported car for cash is demonstrating just how
insignificant he is.

WTF? Even if I had some uber-bike, I don't think most of the world would know or care. It's not like having a Ferrari in the driveway. I don't have discs on my commuter because they're a status symbol or attract chicks. I didn't get them as part of a mid-life crisis. I just like the way they stop.

BTW, I was at the racks early yesterday and there were only seven bikes in my little rack segment -- six with discs, and all the bikes were totally mid-fi and relatively inexpensive. In the wet PNW, discs are clearly dominating. Yes, I know -- it is all part of some giant conspiracy by Big Disc to subjugate the masses with disc brakes. O.K., blame me. I bought them years ago and gave strength to our oppressing disc overlords.

Time to ride to work . . . again. In ice. Groan.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 4:24:52 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/4/2019 9:14 AM, sms wrote:
On 12/3/2019 11:13 PM, wrote:

snip

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people
spend on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Probably We all buy things that others question the value of. If someone
wants to spend their discretionary income on a fancier car, nicer
clothes, a bigger house, the most expensive smart phone, a beautiful
garden, $200 meal, costly jewelry, or a $4000 bicycle, it's fine. At
least it's something tangible that they enjoy.

Yes, that's fine.

But if someone comes onto a bicycle technical discussion group and says
electronic shifting is much more reliable than cable-operated shifting,
that is a statement about facts, not preferences. And that should be
open to discussion.

No one is saying that. You making things up again. Ah never mind...

Lou

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 11:11:50 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 23:13:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 12:44:11 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:03:33 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 6:14:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 5:54 AM, Duane wrote:


I used DT friction shifters for years. I can’t imagine anyone preferring
them over brifters but whatever floats their boat.

Like Eddie Merckx said (paraphrasing) it doesn’t matter how long or short
you ride. Or how fast or slow. Just ride. I would also add, and STFU
criticizing other riders preferences.

Oh, good grief!

As I've said dozens of times: This is a _discussion_ group. We discuss
things. If you're so insecure that you can't tolerate any disagreement
with your choices, why would you enter a discussion about your choices?

Furthermore, if you pretend instead to defend _others'_ free choices,
perhaps you should stop sniping at only those who differ from you.

Contrary to certain posters' whining, I don't say "You shouldn't use
[whatever] equipment." But I do frequently point out that for much
equipment, the near-magical claims are exaggerated, or irrelevant to
most people's riding.

And I think I have a tendency to quantify things. Quantification
shouldn't be sneered at in a "tech" group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Wow, wow. Frank you started this thread. Read your first post. What was your intention when you wrote
'If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite. '? Trying to be funny? What did you quantify? In my world it is a silly insinuation.

Lou

I won't comment on Franks intent but read the resulting answers. It
appears that without, at the minimum, STI brake-shifters it is nearly
impossible to enjoy riding a bicycle these days.

No one said that only that it makes a ride more pleasant or more safe in some situation (of road on slippery, bumpy and twisting single track for instance)



Has cycling been reduced to a dollars and cents level where riding a
$4,000 bicycle (as one poster has frequently mentioned) results in a
more enjoyable ride?

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people spend on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Yes, of course. After all buying a big car certainly shows the world
just how big a man you are.... even though you paid a dollar down and
a dollar a week for the rest of your life. And of course, the neighbor
who bought that little imported car for cash is demonstrating just how
insignificant he is.

--
cheers,

John B.

If that what comes to your mind first when you meet people that have a more expensive/bigger house, car or whatever I pity you. Try to be happy for them it makes you a nicer person. A mercedes/audi are really nice cars to drive, a nice garden is really pretty to look at.

Lou