35-406 (20 x 1.35) Tires. Ouch!

On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 9:38:13 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 3/6/2016 10:23 PM, Tosspot wrote:
On 06/03/16 23:24, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, March 6, 2016 at 3:11:43 PM UTC, Tosspot wrote:
On 06/03/16 12:18, Andre Jute wrote:
Though it is true that the Marathon Plus is almost perfectly
punctureproof, it also offers the nastiest, harshest ride imaginable

My Marathon Supremes were a nice ride, and I enjoyed fixing the
punctures every 500km :-(

You're the only one who thinks so, Tosser.

Unforunately a bloke at work agrees with me. They were just to puncture
prone. Nice ride though, but not for a commuter. I dunno where he
went, but I went back, not a puncture in sight.

The Marathon Supreme and the Big Apple are more puncture prone because
they are pretty low pressure tires. And of course low pressure tires
will give you a more comfortable ride if you don't care about rolling
resistance. The Marathon Plus does sacrifice some rolling resistance for
puncture protection, but in the case of a Nexus 7 hub the extra rolling
resistance is offset by the time it takes to repair a puncture.

WHAT is a yachtsman looking for in a go to bike ?

BTW yachters are recovering clawstrophobics....on the cycle they're all smiles.

that they are in the market for the finer nuances of tire performance is kinda moot

On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 2:38:13 PM UTC, sms wrote:

The Marathon Supreme and the Big Apple are more puncture prone because
they are pretty low pressure tires.

You should feel how hard a Big Apple is even down at 2 bar, Scharfie. I doubt normal balloon pressures of 2-3 bar are puncture prone, especially on near-slicks like the Big Apple where there is no tread for anything to stick in if it doesn't puncture the protection belt immediately.

In any event, my Big Apples went 8500km before getting a single puncture, and then it was a snakebite from crashing through a pothole at 51kph at the bottom of a hill with only 1.6 bar of inflation while I was testing the limits of the cushion.

And of course low pressure tires
will give you a more comfortable ride if you don't care about rolling
resistance.

Scharfie, Scharfie! It's this sort of carelessness that invites idiots like Krygowski to class you with the artists like me. Great big fat, near-slick, low pressure tyres like the Big Apple have LESS rolling resistance than narror and especially treaded tyres. Krygowski will shortly be giving you the reference to the study by the Technical University of Cologn that proved this conclusively.

The Marathon Plus does sacrifice some rolling resistance for
puncture protection, but in the case of a Nexus 7 hub the extra rolling
resistance is offset by the time it takes to repair a puncture.

I hate to sound like the contrary clowns further up the thread (hey, maybe Tosspot is sincere, only inexperienced -- now there's a thought!) but I actually measured a known circuit I rode daily then on on Vredesteins (standard Gazelle fitment back then), Contis (cheap **** touring tyres that my LBS swore by) and Marathon Plus, and the Plus was by a good margin the fastest tyre. It was just nasty to ride on unless you stayed exclusively on smooth tarmac, which where I live is impossible.

Andre Jute
Observation is the foundation of science

On 3/6/2016 10:25 PM, Tosspot wrote:
On 07/03/16 01:45, sms wrote:
On 3/6/2016 12:09 PM, Tosspot wrote:

snip

"How often did you need to get the back wheel off?" I hear you ask.
Once is too ****ing often! Surly LHT Disc with a singulator sorted that
problem out :-)

IIRC, I fixed the flat without removing the wheel.

It's still a pain with mudguards and rack. I don't like the chain
tensioner, but with discs you really want the rear wheel to stay in
exactly the same place, so vertical dropouts are a Good Thing[TM] but
then you *have* to have a tensioner. Have to say, tucks out the way and
does the job.

What would be ideal is a wider tire that is rated for higher PSI, but
the PSI rating goes down as the width increases.

The reason that the wider tires have more rolling resistance is because
they are not able to be inflated to as high a pressure as the narrower
tires. If they were higher pressure there would actually be an advantage
to the greater width in terms of rolling resistance (as
counter-intuitive as that may seem).

For the Marathon Plus, the 35-406 (20 x 1.35) has a maximum PSI 43%
greater than the 30% wider 47-406 (20 x 1.75).

The price, with shipping was almost exactly the same.

Maybe I should have just gone with the 100 psi Kenda Kwest 40-406 (20 x
1.5) for $13 each.

On 07/03/16 18:00, Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 10:28:23 AM UTC, somebody wrote:
On Sun, 6 Mar 2016 03:18:10 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute wrote:

Though it is true that the Marathon Plus is almost perfectly
punctureproof, it also offers the nastiest, harshest ride
imaginable and is incredibly difficult to get on the rim even at
700 size. Definitely not reclmmended except if you are desperate
for pu ctureproofing and longevity.

Only hard to mount for the ignorant.

Oh, I don't know. Are you really calling Sheldon and Chalo ignorant?
Or is this contrary opinion, not shared by most perfectly sensible
cyclists, just your expression of your dislike for me, anonymous
"somebody"?

You'll have to cite on that one, my Google mojo deserted me.

And it's a decent ride. Have been using them on daily commuter
for several years. Kinda miss fixing flats...

Horses for courses, tyres for arses. If you have a butt of granite,
you might consider the Marathon Plus a "decent ride", compared to,
say, an ultra-narrow, ultra-high pressure road tyre. Who knows how
long ago some old roadie's coccyx was pounded through his brain?

Andre Jute Sybarite cyclist

On Mon, 7 Mar 2016 09:00:20 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
wrote:

On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 10:28:23 AM UTC, somebody wrote:
On Sun, 6 Mar 2016 03:18:10 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
wrote:

Though it is true that the Marathon Plus is almost perfectly punctureproof, it also offers the nastiest, harshest ride imaginable and is incredibly difficult to get on the rim even at 700 size. Definitely not reclmmended except if you are desperate for pu ctureproofing and longevity.

Only hard to mount for the ignorant.

Oh, I don't know. Are you really calling Sheldon and Chalo ignorant? Or is this contrary opinion, not shared by most perfectly sensible cyclists, just your expression of your dislike for me, anonymous "somebody"?

I have no problems changing my Marathon+ tires. Apparently YMMV.
Check the youtube video where someone changes one with no levers. Yes,
it can be done. Do a little learning and try again.


And it's a decent ride. Have been using them on daily commuter for
several years. Kinda miss fixing flats...

Horses for courses, tyres for arses.

And science saves the day.

---
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On 3/7/2016 11:57 AM, sms wrote:

snip

For the Marathon Plus, the 35-406 (20 x 1.35) has a maximum PSI 43%
greater than the 30% wider 47-406 (20 x 1.75).

The price, with shipping was almost exactly the same.

Oops, actually the 47-406 worked out to $37 each while the 35-406 were
$45 each.

I realized another good reason for the narrower tires, and it's the
limited fender clearance on the folding bike.

Observation is the foundation of science


https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cart...050217_low.jpg

On 07/03/16 20:57, sms wrote:
On 3/6/2016 10:25 PM, Tosspot wrote:
On 07/03/16 01:45, sms wrote:
On 3/6/2016 12:09 PM, Tosspot wrote:

snip

"How often did you need to get the back wheel off?" I hear you ask.
Once is too ****ing often! Surly LHT Disc with a singulator sorted
that
problem out :-)

IIRC, I fixed the flat without removing the wheel.

It's still a pain with mudguards and rack. I don't like the chain
tensioner, but with discs you really want the rear wheel to stay in
exactly the same place, so vertical dropouts are a Good Thing[TM] but
then you *have* to have a tensioner. Have to say, tucks out the way and
does the job.

What would be ideal is a wider tire that is rated for higher PSI, but
the PSI rating goes down as the width increases.

The reason that the wider tires have more rolling resistance is because
they are not able to be inflated to as high a pressure as the narrower
tires. If they were higher pressure there would actually be an advantage
to the greater width in terms of rolling resistance (as
counter-intuitive as that may seem).

Certainly fooled the guys at Schwalbe;

http://www.schwalbe.com/gb/rollwiderstand.html

"Wider tyres roll better than narrower tyres. This statement generally
invokes skepticism, nevertheless, with tyres at the same pressure a
narrower tyre deflects more and so deforms more"

And Sheldon

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

"The short answer to this question is that, yes, a wider tire of similar
construction will have lower rolling resistance than a narrower one at
the same pressure. "

Although he goes on to qualify this this.

For the Marathon Plus, the 35-406 (20 x 1.35) has a maximum PSI 43%
greater than the 30% wider 47-406 (20 x 1.75).

The price, with shipping was almost exactly the same.

Maybe I should have just gone with the 100 psi Kenda Kwest 40-406 (20 x
1.5) for $13 each.

Surely, It's really down to how you feel about fixing punctures. A QR
deraileur system a rear wheel can be patched on the road in 5 minutes
with a "get you home" pump (Morph?). Where as if it requires undoing
rack, mudguard, gear cable, torque converter, then ytou *really* want
puncture resistance.

But the internet saves the day!

http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/

Who'd have thought... :-)

DUH.....TDF

Tires are made during one time span production periods with quantity produced figured with demand and concomitant elements of obsolescence.

Dahoners then buy hard tires.

Wannabe racers get soft tires

Like oatmeal ?

On 3/7/2016 10:26 PM, Tosspot wrote:

snip

"Wider tyres roll better than narrower tyres. This statement generally
invokes skepticism, nevertheless, with tyres at the same pressure a
narrower tyre deflects more and so deforms more"

As I explained, the tires are NOT the same pressure. The narrower tires
almost always have a higher maximum pressure. This lowers rolling
resistance, offsetting the advantage of a wider tire which operates at a
lower pressure.

There is no precise formula for how much increased tire pressure reduces
rolling resistance and how much increased width reduces rolling
resistance. The 43% higher pressure Marathon Plus 35-406 might be better
than the 30% wider 47-406 or it might not be. The puncture protection of
the Marathon Plus might make the increased puncture protection of a
higher pressure tire unnecessary.