London sees a different type of cyclist

On Dec 11, 2:16 pm, dr_jeff wrote:
On 12/11/10 12:34 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the mundane
prophet of the last days before the end of times wrote:

On Dec 11, 12:24 pm, Derek wrote:

I don't know which part of London Mike Jacoubowsky visited to see all
those law abiding cyclists, but it's obviously nowhere I have been!

Derek C

Everything is OK for a cyclist EXCEPT riding on sidewalks and pushing
around pedestrians.

That's the way it is around here.

I hope that the NYC cops start enforcing the bicycling laws (both those
that apply to car drivers and bicycle riders), particularly with bike lanes.

Jeff

If you make people stand 3 minutes at the light in extreme heat or
cold, nobody would ride.

It's better to do like the Taliban and put a ban on it.

It's good they ticket bikes on sidewalks in the meantime though.

On Dec 11, 3:15 pm, dr_jeff wrote:
On 12/11/10 2:58 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the mundane prophet
of the last days before the end of times wrote:



On Dec 11, 2:16 pm, wrote:
On 12/11/10 12:34 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the mundane
prophet of the last days before the end of times wrote:

On Dec 11, 12:24 pm, Derek wrote:

I don't know which part of London Mike Jacoubowsky visited to see all
those law abiding cyclists, but it's obviously nowhere I have been!

Derek C

Everything is OK for a cyclist EXCEPT riding on sidewalks and pushing
around pedestrians.

That's the way it is around here.

I hope that the NYC cops start enforcing the bicycling laws (both those
that apply to car drivers and bicycle riders), particularly with bike lanes.

Jeff

If you make people stand 3 minutes at the light in extreme heat or
cold, nobody would ride.

Then they don't need to ride on those days. Most stoplights are far less
than 3 minutes. If bikers didn't go through red lights and the
interesections so dangerously, then, I would say that should be allowed
to proceed through a red light. But they do so in a manner dangerous to
themselves and others.

99.99% they only endanger themselves. Let them run the lights AFTER
SLOWING DOWN, but if they hit a pedestrian be ready to pay for him.


It's better to do like the Taliban and put a ban on it.

It's good they ticket bikes on sidewalks in the meantime though.

They should also ticket riders going the wrong way on streets and bike
lanes and otherwise riding dangerously.

And so they should do with cars, which multiply the danger to all.
They should ticket them for passing on the right and talking on the
phone to begin with.

AGAIN, NO BICYCLES ON SIDEWALKS!

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010, Derek C wrote:

On Dec 11, 6:10*pm, "Mr Pounder"
wrote:
"Colin Nelson" wrote in message

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
Just got back from spending a few days in London, with the following
observations-

#1: They're tough as nails. I was there during their recent ice age,
with temps sitting right at or below freezing. I was amazed at how
many cyclists were out on the streets, both night & day.

I have statistics that say otherwise. On friday, when the weather was
fairly mild, there were four bikes (and two motorbikes) in the yard beside
my office. During the height (depth?) of the recent snow, there was only
mine.

#2: They don't run stop lights & signs. It's just plain weird;
whether on a home-brew fixie or carbon road bike, they stop with the
rest of the traffic, and go with the rest of the traffic. Virtually
without exception. Very odd thing to witness!

Hmm. I run a red light whenever i think it's safe and not discourteous to
do so, which means i do quite often stop for them. I very often have other
cyclists come past me to run them when i do.

#3: London's efforts to reduce congestion in the city seem to have
paid off. It's a lot easier to get around than last time I visited.
Either that or everyone stayed home because of the cold.

I haven't noticed a huge difference myself; rush hour is still gridlock,
and the evening still sees heavy traffic on main roads.

#4: Near the Gloucester tube station, you've got a Paul (French
bakery chain) a couple doors away from a Starbucks. Paul was doing
significantly more business and turning tables a lot more quickly.
Would love to see them open in the US; I prefer their coffee and
their baked goods are world's better. Of course, this has nothing to
do with cycling (other than creating "more livable" communities?).

Paul is rather expensive, but they do make exceedingly good cakes. I used
to live off their blackcurrant tarts - i mananged to fill all the shelves
in my old office with the boxes from them:

http://urchin.earth.li/~twic/tmp/paul-wall.jpg

Their other tarts are also good, and their macaroons are supeb.

Lincolnshire is mostly flat ... But the wind is mostly in your face

**** off yank.

Careful! Don't forget the 'special relationship' which allows the US
to use the UK as an unpaid and unsinkable European aircraft carrier.

Don't say that! Remember what happened after they said it about the
Titanic ...

tom

--
Know who said that? ****ing Terrorvision, that's who. -- D

On Dec 11, 5:37 pm, "Mortimer" wrote:
"His Highness the TibetanMonkey, not your average backyard wrote in message

...

As one of that rare breed - a law-abiding cyclist - I'd like to see *all*
laws that apply to cars and lorries applied *and enforced equally* for
cyclists. So I'd like to see *every* cyclist punished (preferably with
points on his licence if he is also a car driver) if he goes through a red
traffic light (1), goes through a pedestrian crossing that has people
crossing on it, overtakes on the nearside a vehicle which is indicating to
turn in that direction at a junction.

I'd also like to see cycle lanes (2) discontinued for the last n yards
(maybe 50 yards) before every junction with left-turning vehicles allowed to
position themselves properly, as close to the kerb as possible, so that no
other vehicle which is going straight on can overtake them on that side,
either legally or physically. In fact I'd like to see an end to cycle
training for children which still encourages cyclists to overtake on the
nearside and teaches that this is acceptible or even preferable.

I cycle as I drive: obeying all the rules of the road and as if I were
traceable by a numberplate like a car is. I do not go through red traffic
lights. I stop at zebra crossings. I never ever ever overtake on the left:
if I come up to a queue of traffic I either get off and walk along the
pavement or I wait my turn, usually moving out from a position close to the
kerb to a position centrally behind the cars in front and behind so I'm
clearly visible; I do this while I can keep up with the traffic and then
move back to the kerb when it starts to outpace me and cars will walt to get
past.

(1) Assuming it's not permitted for other vehicles to do this when turning
to the nearside (ie left in RHD land or to the right in LHD land) - it's
illegal in the UK but allowed in some other countries.

(2) The sort which are painted on the tarmac of the road, as opposed to a
part of the pavement/sidewalk which is designated for cyclists.

That's a tough mandate for most cyclists as they sit idly in traffic
absorbing the fumes and losing the muscle temperature that keeps the
"engine" going.

I'm all for castigating bad behavior among the wild monkeys, but I'm
also for creating a smooth flow where the bicycle does not create a
problem. Hey, where they create a conflict, we can make stopping
mandatory.

Worse, it would create a situation where most cyclists will tend to
brake the law and be held in contempt such as now.

I would create the conditions where the pedestrians have more rights
than cyclists and cyclists more than cars.

"Derek C" wrote in message
...
On Dec 11, 5:17 pm, "Colin Nelson" wrote:
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
Just got back from spending a few days in London, with the following
observations-

#1: They're tough as nails. I was there during their recent ice age,
with temps sitting right at or below freezing. I was amazed at how
many cyclists were out on the streets, both night & day.

#2: They don't run stop lights & signs. It's just plain weird;
whether on a home-brew fixie or carbon road bike, they stop with the
rest of the traffic, and go with the rest of the traffic. Virtually
without exception. Very odd thing to witness!

#3: London's efforts to reduce congestion in the city seem to have
paid off. It's a lot easier to get around than last time I visited.
Either that or everyone stayed home because of the cold.

#4: Near the Gloucester tube station, you've got a Paul (French
bakery
chain) a couple doors away from a Starbucks. Paul was doing
significantly more business and turning tables a lot more quickly.
Would love to see them open in the US; I prefer their coffee and
their baked goods are world's better. Of course, this has nothing to
do with cycling (other than creating "more livable" communities?).

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Bless you my son ...

--
Colin N.

Lincolnshire is mostly flat ... But the wind is mostly in your face
======
I don't know which part of London Mike Jacoubowsky visited to see all
those law abiding cyclists, but it's obviously nowhere I have been!

Derek C
======

I'm thinking it's all relative. Your version of outlaw is pretty tame by
SF standards. :-)

For what it's worth, the difference was so obvious I took quite a few
photos of cyclists stopped at stop lights. Trust me, in my area, that
wouldn't be so easily done. When I stop, I have to be concerned that I
might be run down from behind.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

On 12/11/2010 5:40 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:
Tºm Shermªn™ " considered
Sat, 11 Dec 2010 09:04:08 -0600 the perfect time to write:

On 12/11/2010 5:20 AM, Mike A Schwab wrote:
On Dec 10, 9:36 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_°""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 12/10/2010 8:32 PM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

Just got back from spending a few days in London, with the following
observations-
[...]
#2: They don't run stop lights& signs. It's just plain weird; whether
on a home-brew fixie or carbon road bike, they stop with the rest of the
traffic, and go with the rest of the traffic. Virtually without
exception. Very odd thing to witness![...]

Seehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLzGj10fg2g.


A couple of commuter races
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKGbq8w7DJ0 Hackney

RANS Formula with Mueller Windwrap at 5:37-5:39?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBJaMzatz8o London Top Gear Part 1 of 4
(10 min each)

Where was the helicopter?

Still in the hold, waiting for a clearance from ATC to enter the
London controlled airspace

Time to spare? Go by air!

Should have had this dude in the competition:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XihQeZpwqpE&feature=player_embedded.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On Dec 12, 2:10 am, Phlip wrote:
Smart Cars make sense here, especially as backup transportation.

No no no, the One World Order Commyanists said you can ONLY have a
smart car!

No, you can have a big pickup truck to transport a cow, a minivan to
transport your family, and a bicycle to go around locally. MOST TRIPS
ARE DONE LOCALLY OR SHOULD BE DONE LOCALLY and the bicycle is the
vehicle of choice.

Now the question is why you need a cow in the city?

On Dec 12, 8:40 am, Martin Edwards wrote:
On 11/12/2010 17:20, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, not your average

backyard philosopher wrote:
On Dec 10, 9:32 pm, "Mike
wrote:
Just got back from spending a few days in London, with the following
observations-

#1: They're tough as nails. I was there during their recent ice age, with
temps sitting right at or below freezing. I was amazed at how many cyclists
were out on the streets, both night& day.

#2: They don't run stop lights& signs. It's just plain weird; whether on a
home-brew fixie or carbon road bike, they stop with the rest of the traffic,
and go with the rest of the traffic. Virtually without exception. Very odd
thing to witness!

#3: London's efforts to reduce congestion in the city seem to have paid off.
It's a lot easier to get around than last time I visited. Either that or
everyone stayed home because of the cold.

#4: Near the Gloucester tube station, you've got a Paul (French bakery
chain) a couple doors away from a Starbucks. Paul was doing significantly
more business and turning tables a lot more quickly. Would love to see them
open in the US; I prefer their coffee and their baked goods are world's
better. Of course, this has nothing to do with cycling (other than creating
"more livable" communities?).

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City& Los Altos, CA USA

How about their drivers? My sources (secret so far) tell me they are
not as intimidating as ours besides the fact that they drive smaller
cars and tend to obey the laws such as the passing lane and no phone.

Our individualism keeps us in the cage and driving a cage, you know.

No. Overtaking on the inside is common, as is using phones. Despite
our cuddly international image, many British people ignore laws that
inconvenience them. The big exception is drinking and driving, which is
now considered unacceptable by the majority.

Well, the question is, IS IT LEGAL? Here things are taken to a
extreme, where SUVs --extreme SUVs-- brave their way around their way
traffic phone in hand. Others just blast an air horn to terrorize
everybody. And it's all perfectly legal.

Our roads are the best example of INDIVIDUALISM taken to the extreme,
and then you fall into some speed trap for following some common sense
speed.

Wait then you find the fast lane vigilante making sure you are not any
faster than the speed limit. And last but not least the drag racers
along I-95, all of which make for an unexciting and dangerous drive on
the wild side. I say unexciting because smart driving is punished
here.

My sources in the UK tell me your cars are smaller, and there's a
greater passion for driving stick shift cars and having some fun. Not
everything shout be boring and dangerous like here. The question for
the British cops is:

Why don't they work some more in protecting the public from the wild
beasts, such as people on the phone or passing on the inside who have
no regard for others? I understand there's high unemployment and it
seems you need to hire more cops.

(Here I debate with the moderator of my local group, who happens to be
from London. Funny we may be as civilized as London pretty soon...
"maybe")

Originally Posted by Jess

Dude, I'd get into discussion with you, especially as it is about
London...but all you do is quote random stuff so how are we supposed
to write back?

And yes, London drivers are safer as the laws are stricter about
things like cell phones and so on.

***

Yeah Jess, I knew you were from London and were waiting for your
feedback. People here are so out of touch with the reality in other
places when they need some good examples to follow. If they care about
anything. The reason I quote people is because they are real people
talking about the real issues and we seem somewhat apathetic about
changing the rules of the jungle.

The bicycles (DecoBike) are said to be coming this winter and without
bike lanes or some taming of traffic is going be a tough proposition.
I'm hanging on to my rusting bikes to see what will happen. Well, some
of them are sitting right next to the ocean, and that's a crime, like
many others out there.

One thing for the promoters of this bicycle program. Please put bike
lanes along the 71st and 96st causeways as well as over the Haulover
bridge, and this "Wise TibetanMonkey, prophet of the last day before
the end of times" (yeah, it's all one title) will lay praise over you
and the whole world will know about it. Thanks!

"MAY THE SUN SHINE UPON YOU!"

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 09:24:44 -0800 (PST), Derek C
wrote:

On Dec 11, 5:17*pm, "Colin Nelson" wrote:
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
Just got back from spending a few days in London, with the following
observations-

#1: They're tough as nails. I was there during their recent ice age,
with temps sitting right at or below freezing. I was amazed at how
many cyclists were out on the streets, both night & day.

#2: They don't run stop lights & signs. It's just plain weird;
whether on a home-brew fixie or carbon road bike, they stop with the
rest of the traffic, and go with the rest of the traffic. Virtually
without exception. Very odd thing to witness!

#3: London's efforts to reduce congestion in the city seem to have
paid off. It's a lot easier to get around than last time I visited.
Either that or everyone stayed home because of the cold.

#4: Near the Gloucester tube station, you've got a Paul (French
bakery
chain) a couple doors away from a Starbucks. Paul was doing
significantly more business and turning tables a lot more quickly.
Would love to see them open in the US; I prefer their coffee and
their baked goods are world's better. Of course, this has nothing to
do with cycling (other than creating "more livable" communities?).

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Bless you my son ...

--
Colin N.

Lincolnshire is mostly flat ... But the wind is mostly in your face

I don't know which part of London Mike Jacoubowsky visited to see all
those law abiding cyclists,

There was a clue:
"Near the Gloucester tube station"

But I expect he means Gloucester Road.

but it's obviously nowhere I have been!

Derek C