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torque wrench issues



 
 
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  #51  
Old May 1st 17, 07:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 248
Default torque wrench issues



wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:30:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news
On 4/30/2017 12:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:53:16 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:16:22 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:17:14 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:42:21 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:51:41 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 22:06:05 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
I finally got the 1/2" torque wrench,
28-210 Nm, not even made in China, but in
Taiwan! Eh... I guess it depends who you ask if
that is China or not

It has a locking screw, a torque setting
handle, a scale (Nm as well as "FT-LB", some
English unit I take it?) - it also as a
locking lever on top just like an ordinary
ratchet, so it can go both ways, clockwise and
anti-clockwise.

The torques only work in the
clockwise direction. So if the
locking (ratchet) lever is set the other way,
it is just a ratchet, right? Well, in
the manual it says:

Note: Never use the torque wrench to undo
nuts, bolts or other fasteners as this will
damage the ratchet mechanism and the
calibrated settings.

So how does that add up? Is it only OK to use
the anti-clockwise pull to insert things, which
would require a left thread? (And it would be
just a long shaft, with the torque not
in effect.)

As for me, I don't plan using it for anything
but as a torque, because I have other, less
expensive ratchets and spanners to do the
everyday stuff. But of course, I'd like to know
what it means.

It also came with a certificate with data on
the calibration and in the manual it says it
should be recalibrated at least every
12 months.

Calibration is irrelevant if you don't follow the
rules to the
letter.

Most torque settings I've seen were for dry
threads - any stray
lubricant
and you might even twist the end off at the
correct torque.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Torque specs vary considerably by application.
Some are given as
clean and dry, some are given as lubricated with
oil - some are
given
cold, and others hot. That said, I personally have
never run across
a
torque spec that was so "close to the edge" that
torqing with "stray
lubrication" would cause immediate failure of the
bolt by twisting
off
the end.
However, that said, most of my wrenching has not
been on bicycles
but
on automobiles and agricultural and construction
equipment which may
be slightly more "overengineered" or "overbuilt"

Bicycles tend to have less things you can twist the
end off.

Its common on motorcycles, but mainly pulling the
threads out of alloy
castings. Its pretty rare to strip an engine down
so far that you can
put
the castings in degreasing plant - torquing the
engine case bolts with
oil
left in the holes is a very good chance of
stripping the threads.

As for stripping engine bolts, the Honda factory
used to install
fasteners so tight that a normal person couldn't get
them out without
an"impact driver". A tool that I never even saw
before the Japanese
invasion.

The lock washers were very effective where used, and
the Phipips style
bolts were incapable of delivering enough torque to
breat them loose
without camming out - the Hammer Impact driver solved
that problem

I believe I've read that the "Phillips" headed screws
in a Japanese
motorcycle are not actually "Phillips" but some
Japanese standard that
didn't quite match the screwdrivers we had in the U.S.
Which probably
didn't help either :-)

That's the *whole* cause - just grind a tiny bit off
the point of the
screwdriver bit and it fits just right.
The bits on my Impact driver fit perfectly without
grinding.
Note I said Philips "style" (I know, I mis-spelled it)
bolts.
Some of the early Jap stuff didn't use Cadmium plated
bolts either -

W10 imploded and I had to start over with a replacement
news account. So
back to old name.

The japs were the worst of the lot for cadmium plated
fasteners.

The very toxic cadmium rubs off on your hands and is
cumulative in the
body - it causes such acute osteoporosis; you can end up
fracturing ribs
just by coughing.

In the UK - nickel plated fasteners became fashionable
about the 80s. They
didn't do much about cadmium plated chassis in electronic
equipment until
RoHS.

AFAIK: cadmium batteries are exempt from RoHS - but
they've more or less
vanished from the shops anyway.

Cadmium is very nasty - wash your hands after handling
anything plated with
it!

from Cadmium, A Health Hazard Surface Treatment
C. Rehm
ESG
Einsteinstr. 174
D-81675 Munich, Germany

An object containing cadmium is not especially injurious
to health on
its own. No risk is involved simply by touching it.
A potential hazard occurs, however, when such objects are
processed
and high temperatures are generated.

Cadmium plating rubs off on your hands whenever you handle
cadmium plated parts and assemblies.

Many years ago they even used it on electronic component
leads to prevent oxidation - they used more aggressive
fluxes in those days.

Welding cad plated sheet steel is particularly dangerous -
the cadmium is vapourised and becomes airborne.

Usually the osteoporosis takes decades to start crippling
the sufferer - but I've heard of a repair technician
dropping dead after a couple of years from fumes using low
melting point cadmium based solder. The specific mode of
death wasn't announced.

The Japanese know all about it, they discharged industrial
effluent containing cadmium into heavily fished costal
waters. They even have a name for the disease - itai itai
byo. apparently its the noise sufferers make in their death
throes. As I mentioned previously - bones become so weak and
brittle, you can fracture ribs just by coughing.

Well then avoid it as you wish.

Many of us recognize the difference between metals and reactive metallic
organic compounds.

Zinc rich tablets are popular for symptoms of herpes simplex and yet no
one welds galvanize steel a second time.


Zinc can't be that toxic - its a usual ingredient of baby powder.

Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated steel - only
know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.

You will only weld or braze galvanized steel in a poorly ventilated
space ONCE unless you are REALLY stupid.


I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc plated
that are being spouted here.

"galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher galvanic
affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various other toxic
heavy metals.

Cadmium poisoning is cumulative and has various routes into the body - its a
long slow painful journey to a Darwin award.

For a few years I worked assembling electronic equipment on cadmium plated
chassis - I've seen with my own eyes the extent to which the plating rubs
off on your hands.

But if you're too stupid to take it from someone who's been there - Darwin
awaits you with outstretched arms.

Ads
  #52  
Old May 1st 17, 07:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 248
Default torque wrench issues



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 18:01:20 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:53:16 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:16:22 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
news:[email protected] com...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:17:14 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:42:21 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:51:41 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:[email protected] 4ax.com...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 22:06:05 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
I finally got the 1/2" torque wrench,
28-210 Nm, not even made in China, but in
Taiwan! Eh... I guess it depends who you ask if
that is China or not

It has a locking screw, a torque setting
handle, a scale (Nm as well as "FT-LB", some
English unit I take it?) - it also as a
locking lever on top just like an ordinary
ratchet, so it can go both ways, clockwise and
anti-clockwise.

The torques only work in the
clockwise direction. So if the
locking (ratchet) lever is set the other way,
it is just a ratchet, right? Well, in
the manual it says:

Note: Never use the torque wrench to undo
nuts, bolts or other fasteners as this will
damage the ratchet mechanism and the
calibrated settings.

So how does that add up? Is it only OK to use
the anti-clockwise pull to insert things, which
would require a left thread? (And it would be
just a long shaft, with the torque not
in effect.)

As for me, I don't plan using it for anything
but as a torque, because I have other, less
expensive ratchets and spanners to do the
everyday stuff. But of course, I'd like to know
what it means.

It also came with a certificate with data on
the calibration and in the manual it says it
should be recalibrated at least every
12 months.

Calibration is irrelevant if you don't follow the rules to the
letter.

Most torque settings I've seen were for dry threads - any stray
lubricant
and you might even twist the end off at the correct torque.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Torque specs vary considerably by application. Some are given as
clean and dry, some are given as lubricated with oil - some are
given
cold, and others hot. That said, I personally have never run
across
a
torque spec that was so "close to the edge" that torqing with
"stray
lubrication" would cause immediate failure of the bolt by
twisting
off
the end.
However, that said, most of my wrenching has not been on
bicycles
but
on automobiles and agricultural and construction equipment which
may
be slightly more "overengineered" or "overbuilt"

Bicycles tend to have less things you can twist the end off.

Its common on motorcycles, but mainly pulling the threads out of
alloy
castings. Its pretty rare to strip an engine down so far that you
can
put
the castings in degreasing plant - torquing the engine case bolts
with
oil
left in the holes is a very good chance of stripping the threads.

As for stripping engine bolts, the Honda factory used to install
fasteners so tight that a normal person couldn't get them out
without
an"impact driver". A tool that I never even saw before the Japanese
invasion.

The lock washers were very effective where used, and the Phipips
style
bolts were incapable of delivering enough torque to breat them loose
without camming out - the Hammer Impact driver solved that problem

I believe I've read that the "Phillips" headed screws in a Japanese
motorcycle are not actually "Phillips" but some Japanese standard
that
didn't quite match the screwdrivers we had in the U.S. Which
probably
didn't help either :-)

That's the *whole* cause - just grind a tiny bit off the point of the
screwdriver bit and it fits just right.
The bits on my Impact driver fit perfectly without grinding.
Note I said Philips "style" (I know, I mis-spelled it) bolts.
Some of the early Jap stuff didn't use Cadmium plated bolts either -

W10 imploded and I had to start over with a replacement news account. So
back to old name.

The japs were the worst of the lot for cadmium plated fasteners.

The very toxic cadmium rubs off on your hands and is cumulative in the
body - it causes such acute osteoporosis; you can end up fracturing ribs
just by coughing.

In the UK - nickel plated fasteners became fashionable about the 80s.
They
didn't do much about cadmium plated chassis in electronic equipment
until
RoHS.

AFAIK: cadmium batteries are exempt from RoHS - but they've more or less
vanished from the shops anyway.

Cadmium is very nasty - wash your hands after handling anything plated
with
it!

from Cadmium, A Health Hazard Surface Treatment
C. Rehm
ESG
Einsteinstr. 174
D-81675 Munich, Germany

An object containing cadmium is not especially injurious to health on
its own. No risk is involved simply by touching it.
A potential hazard occurs, however, when such objects are processed
and high temperatures are generated.


Cadmium plating rubs off on your hands whenever you handle cadmium plated
parts and assemblies.

Many years ago they even used it on electronic component leads to prevent
oxidation - they used more aggressive fluxes in those days.

Welding cad plated sheet steel is particularly dangerous - the cadmium is
vapourised and becomes airborne.

Usually the osteoporosis takes decades to start crippling the sufferer -
but
I've heard of a repair technician dropping dead after a couple of years
from
fumes using low melting point cadmium based solder. The specific mode of
death wasn't announced.

The Japanese know all about it, they discharged industrial effluent
containing cadmium into heavily fished costal waters. They even have a
name
for the disease - itai itai byo. apparently its the noise sufferers make
in
their death throes. As I mentioned previously - bones become so weak and
brittle, you can fracture ribs just by coughing.


I hate to disillusion you but the Japanese word "itai" can be
translated into English as "ouch" and is commonly used in everyday
conversation.

Secondly, the cadmium poisoning you are referring to was specific to
mining in Toyama Prefecture. Not to industry per si.


Sophistry doesn't magically make you right.

  #53  
Old May 1st 17, 08:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default torque wrench issues

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 11:34:12 AM UTC-7, Ian Field wrote:

The people who made the RoHS list don't seem very keen on cadmium - like
most battery systems; the cadmium ones got an exemption. However - most
battery manufacturers seem to have voluntarily dropped cadmium. You can
still get them for specialist applications like security systems, but
general types have pretty much vanished from the shops.

I'm not aware of any restrictions on zinc - zinc/air hearing aid batteries
have if anything, increased in popularity. Because they need air to work -
they're not fully sealed.


I think that you would find that no one "voluntarily" ceased production because of health concerns but because Lithium Ion batteries are taking over the market.

Cadmium is not a very strong health hazard as a plating material. Zinc is poisonous if a large enough dose is given.

Cadmium ends up remaining in your liver and kidneys while I believe that Zinc can pass safely outside of it.

Remember that nitrogen is harmful if you don't get enough oxygen with it. So you have to draw a line between harmful and poisonous.

  #54  
Old May 1st 17, 08:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 445
Default torque wrench issues

On Mon, 01 May 2017 15:08:31 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

SNIPPED



The usually suggested preparation for welding or brazing galvanized
materials is to grind all the galvanizing off!

ACTUALLY, stripping the zinc with acid is much more effective.
Hydrochloric acid makes short work of zinc and produces zinc chloride,
which can be used as soldering flux - - -



While prepping the base
metal will remove the majority of the zinc from the surface of the
metal, the possibility of some galvanizing while welding may occur. A
common sign of galvanizing is the appearance of yellowish-green smoke.
Other signs are a white powdery particles in the air, and a white
residue around the weld. If exposure to large quantities of the
yellowish-green zinc oxide fumes occur, you may experience galvanize
poisoning, or metal fume fever as it is sometimes called. The
severity of your symptoms depends on the amount of time of exposure to
the harmful fumes.

Galvanize Poisoning

Symptoms of galvanize poisoning can be similar to flu symptoms. The
onset of symptoms typically begin shortly after exposure to zinc oxide
and may include a mild headache and nausea. If you have a more severe
case of exposure, your symptoms will be consistent to those you
experience when you have the flu. A moderate case of exposure will
result in symptoms including chills, shaking, a slight fever, vomiting
and cold sweats. If you begin to experience any of these symptoms you
should immediately stop working and get some fresh air. In severe
cases the symptoms may be so bad that you will have to go home until
they subside. The most severe cases of galvanize poisoning can result
in death. If you feel that your symptoms are worse than ever before,
you should seek medical attention at once.

Galvanize poisoning is often short and your symptoms should begin to
lessen within four hours of exposure. You should be completely
symptom free within twenty four hours. If you experience a stronger
exposure, you may still be experiencing symptoms up to forty-eight
hours later. We recommend upon exposure that you drink milk in order
to quicken your recovery. The calcium in milk helps remove the zinc
build-up from your body.



AND




Avoiding “Fume Fever”

Feb 09, 2011 by bakersgas in Uncategorized




Imagine you just finished up a day on the job, welding Galvanized
Steel. You head home, shower up, and grab a beer as you settle in to
watch the game on the tube. But then you start to feel kind of gross.
Your legs start to ache, you become really thirsty with a blazing dry
throat, and you start coughing and become congested, shivering all
over. Things get worse from there as you spike a fever, feel nauseous
and start throwing up. At the height of this two-day nightmare ride,
you even hallucinate and experience convulsions.

Is this the worse flu ever? Nope—you’ve just been hit by Fume Fever.
It’s pretty nasty stuff, but totally preventable and fortunately, it’s
not currently linked to any long-term health problems.

Galvanized Steel is coated with a thin layer of zinc, and zinc melts
at a much lower rate than steel, so when you’re welding Galvanized
Steel, the zinc coating is vaporized and turns into zinc oxide. When
you breath-in zinc oxide fumes, you develop what is commonly known as
Fume Fever. This usually happens 1-4 hours after exposure and
typically lasts for 1-2 days.

The good news is these nasty side-effects are totally preventable.
•Proper ventilation in your work area is the first, and most effective
way to prevent the inhalation of zinc oxide fumes. Most shops and
industrial complexes have effective ventilation and air filtration
systems in-place, and outdoor job sites are generally not a problem,
as fumes dissipate naturally outside.
•If you’re working in a confined or unventilated work area, wear an
approved respirator. Varying types of respirators are available, and
the level of fumes you’re exposed to will dictate the type of
respirator you need for a particular job.

**Never eat, drink or smoke in an area contaminated by zinc oxide or
any welding fumes.

***Always wash your hands thoroughly after you finish welding, and
definitely before you eat—zinc oxide can be extremely poisonous if
ingested


  #55  
Old May 1st 17, 08:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 445
Default torque wrench issues

On Mon, 1 May 2017 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Whenever you are working with galvanized steel it is important that
you take the necessary steps when prepping the metal before welding.
If you have properly prepped your metal before welding, you will help
reduce your exposure to zinc oxide fumes.


The usually suggested preparation for welding or brazing galvanized
materials is to grind all the galvanizing off!


Welding a joint with zinc still on the area would weaken the weld but who am I to suggest that you're right?

Smokers have very high amounts of cadmium in their bodies. If you've smoked for 50 years you probably have the maximum allowable amount of cadmium in your body. You can get cadmium in your body by touching it. The amount into your plasma is as high as 0.07%. The half-life of cadmium in the body is about 10 years if memory serves.

But both zinc and cadmium would normally only accumulate to dangerous levels at a rate that wouldn't harm you until long after you're dead unless you're a smoker.

Or a careless welder.
Brazing spelter containing cadmium can make you sicker than a dog in
short order if you are breathing the fumes - as can the fumes from
welding galvanized steel. It only takes a few minutes to get you
wretching and puking and aching to the point you almost wish you
could die.

Once is enough - trust me!!!!!
  #56  
Old May 1st 17, 08:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 248
Default torque wrench issues



wrote in message
...
On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 11:34:12 AM UTC-7, Ian Field wrote:

The people who made the RoHS list don't seem very keen on cadmium - like
most battery systems; the cadmium ones got an exemption. However - most
battery manufacturers seem to have voluntarily dropped cadmium. You can
still get them for specialist applications like security systems, but
general types have pretty much vanished from the shops.

I'm not aware of any restrictions on zinc - zinc/air hearing aid
batteries
have if anything, increased in popularity. Because they need air to
work -
they're not fully sealed.


I think that you would find that no one "voluntarily" ceased production
because of health concerns but because Lithium Ion batteries are taking
over the market.


Its difficult to make lithium cells that deliver 1.5V - so not much use for
the standard sizes. I have seen some, but not recently - and they were very
expensive and not rechargeable.

Ni-Mh has largely replaced Ni-Cd and have around 2 - 3x the Ah capacity -
but they can't deliver the instantaneous current draw. Ni-Cd, size for size
have comparable instantaneous current to lead-acid - I've used a Ni-Cd pack
on a motorcycle with electric starter.

When the Ni=Cd battery in my rechargeable shaver gave up, I couldn't get a
replacement for the original, so I tried a Ni-MH - despite 3x the Ah
capacity, it only ran as long as the knackered one it replaced. I noticed
the battery was getting pretty warm - that's where the missing energy was
ending up.

  #57  
Old May 1st 17, 08:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 445
Default torque wrench issues

On Mon, 1 May 2017 19:25:05 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 23:14:27 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 22:10:43 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 4/30/2017 3:30 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 4/30/2017 12:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:53:16 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:16:22 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:17:14 -0400,

wrote:

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:42:21 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:51:41 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 22:06:05 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
I finally got the 1/2" torque wrench,
28-210 Nm, not even made in China, but in
Taiwan! Eh... I guess it depends who you ask if
that is China or not

It has a locking screw, a torque setting
handle, a scale (Nm as well as "FT-LB", some
English unit I take it?) - it also as a
locking lever on top just like an ordinary
ratchet, so it can go both ways, clockwise and
anti-clockwise.

The torques only work in the
clockwise direction. So if the
locking (ratchet) lever is set the other way,
it is just a ratchet, right? Well, in
the manual it says:

Note: Never use the torque wrench to undo
nuts, bolts or other fasteners as this will
damage the ratchet mechanism and the
calibrated settings.

So how does that add up? Is it only OK to use
the anti-clockwise pull to insert things, which
would require a left thread? (And it would be
just a long shaft, with the torque not
in effect.)

As for me, I don't plan using it for anything
but as a torque, because I have other, less
expensive ratchets and spanners to do the
everyday stuff. But of course, I'd like to know
what it means.

It also came with a certificate with data on
the calibration and in the manual it says it
should be recalibrated at least every
12 months.

Calibration is irrelevant if you don't follow the
rules to the
letter.

Most torque settings I've seen were for dry
threads - any stray
lubricant
and you might even twist the end off at the
correct torque.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Torque specs vary considerably by application.
Some are given as
clean and dry, some are given as lubricated with
oil - some are
given
cold, and others hot. That said, I personally have
never run across
a
torque spec that was so "close to the edge" that
torqing with "stray
lubrication" would cause immediate failure of the
bolt by twisting
off
the end.
However, that said, most of my wrenching has not
been on bicycles
but
on automobiles and agricultural and construction
equipment which may
be slightly more "overengineered" or "overbuilt"

Bicycles tend to have less things you can twist the
end off.

Its common on motorcycles, but mainly pulling the
threads out of alloy
castings. Its pretty rare to strip an engine down
so far that you can
put
the castings in degreasing plant - torquing the
engine case bolts with
oil
left in the holes is a very good chance of
stripping the threads.

As for stripping engine bolts, the Honda factory
used to install
fasteners so tight that a normal person couldn't get
them out without
an"impact driver". A tool that I never even saw
before the Japanese
invasion.

The lock washers were very effective where used, and
the Phipips style
bolts were incapable of delivering enough torque to
breat them loose
without camming out - the Hammer Impact driver solved
that problem

I believe I've read that the "Phillips" headed screws
in a Japanese
motorcycle are not actually "Phillips" but some
Japanese standard that
didn't quite match the screwdrivers we had in the U.S.
Which probably
didn't help either :-)

That's the *whole* cause - just grind a tiny bit off
the point of the
screwdriver bit and it fits just right.
The bits on my Impact driver fit perfectly without
grinding.
Note I said Philips "style" (I know, I mis-spelled it)
bolts.
Some of the early Jap stuff didn't use Cadmium plated
bolts either -

W10 imploded and I had to start over with a replacement
news account. So
back to old name.

The japs were the worst of the lot for cadmium plated
fasteners.

The very toxic cadmium rubs off on your hands and is
cumulative in the
body - it causes such acute osteoporosis; you can end up
fracturing ribs
just by coughing.

In the UK - nickel plated fasteners became fashionable
about the 80s. They
didn't do much about cadmium plated chassis in electronic
equipment until
RoHS.

AFAIK: cadmium batteries are exempt from RoHS - but
they've more or less
vanished from the shops anyway.

Cadmium is very nasty - wash your hands after handling
anything plated with
it!

from Cadmium, A Health Hazard Surface Treatment
C. Rehm
ESG
Einsteinstr. 174
D-81675 Munich, Germany

An object containing cadmium is not especially injurious
to health on
its own. No risk is involved simply by touching it.
A potential hazard occurs, however, when such objects are
processed
and high temperatures are generated.

Cadmium plating rubs off on your hands whenever you handle
cadmium plated parts and assemblies.

Many years ago they even used it on electronic component
leads to prevent oxidation - they used more aggressive
fluxes in those days.

Welding cad plated sheet steel is particularly dangerous -
the cadmium is vapourised and becomes airborne.

Usually the osteoporosis takes decades to start crippling
the sufferer - but I've heard of a repair technician
dropping dead after a couple of years from fumes using low
melting point cadmium based solder. The specific mode of
death wasn't announced.

The Japanese know all about it, they discharged industrial
effluent containing cadmium into heavily fished costal
waters. They even have a name for the disease - itai itai
byo. apparently its the noise sufferers make in their death
throes. As I mentioned previously - bones become so weak and
brittle, you can fracture ribs just by coughing.

Well then avoid it as you wish.

Many of us recognize the difference between metals and
reactive metallic organic compounds.

Zinc rich tablets are popular for symptoms of herpes
simplex and yet no one welds galvanize steel a second time.

Zinc can't be that toxic - its a usual ingredient of baby
powder.

Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated
steel - only know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.

Fumes of burning zinc make your knees go soft as you vomit on the way
down. Don't try this at home.

When I was a kid, I liked throwing zinc batteries on the bonfire to watch
them explode - no such effect was ever observed.

Even one single exhausted battery would have more zinc than a pretty big
sheet of zinc plated steel - and would dwarf the amount of zinc
vapourised
by a weld run.




Whenever you are working with galvanized steel it is important that
you take the necessary steps when prepping the metal before welding.
If you have properly prepped your metal before welding, you will help
reduce your exposure to zinc oxide fumes.


The usually suggested preparation for welding or brazing galvanized
materials is to grind all the galvanizing off!


Genius!!! - you've invented a way to breathe it as dust instead of fumes.

Darwin must be biding his time with you...............................



Metallic sinc is not anywhere near as dangerous as the zinc oxide
fumes from over-heated zinc - justlike contact with cadmium metal
itself is "relatively" benign - and touching chrome plated metal is
not dangerous, yet co-valent Chromium is highly toxic.
Same with mercury - although mercury vapour definitely is not GOOD for
you, it is the "organic compounds" of mercury that are particularly
dangerous and insidious.
  #58  
Old May 1st 17, 08:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 445
Default torque wrench issues

On Mon, 1 May 2017 19:49:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:

I have never become aware of the dire consequences of welding zinc plated
that are being spouted here.

"galvanised" can be plated with *ANY* metal that has a higher galvanic
affinity than the host metal. Including cadmium and various other toxic
heavy metals.

Cadmium poisoning is cumulative and has various routes into the body - its a
long slow painful journey to a Darwin award.

For a few years I worked assembling electronic equipment on cadmium plated
chassis - I've seen with my own eyes the extent to which the plating rubs
off on your hands.

But if you're too stupid to take it from someone who's been there - Darwin
awaits you with outstretched arms.


Whenever working with ANY metals, or ANY chemicals, you should wash
your hands well before eating, and never eat in the contaminated
working area. Unless you have breaks in your skin, you are unlikely to
absorb significant amounts of Cadmium

From the CDC:

The principal factor determining how much cadmium is absorbed is the
route of exposure. Once exposed, how much cadmium is absorbed depends
on many factors:

age,
gender,
smoking, and
nutritional status.
As a cumulative toxin, cadmium body burden increases with age. Women
have been shown to have higher blood levels of cadmium than men.
Typically women, with lower iron status, are believed to be at risk
for greater absorption of cadmium after oral exposure (Olsson et al.
2002).


Inhalation

Once in the lungs, from 10% to 50% of an inhaled dose is absorbed,
depending on particle size, solubility of the specific cadmium
compound inhaled, and duration of exposure (Jarup 2002). Absorption is
least for large (greater than 10 micrometers [µm]) and water-insoluble
particles, and greatest for particles that are small (less than 0.1
µm) and water soluble. A high proportion of cadmium in cigarette smoke
is absorbed because the cadmium particles found in that type of smoke
are very small (ATSDR 1999).


Ingestion

Most orally ingested cadmium passes through the gastrointestinal tract
unchanged as normal individuals absorb only about 6% of ingested
cadmium, but up to 9% may be absorbed in those with iron deficiency
(ATSDR 1999). Also, cadmium in water is more easily absorbed than
cadmium in food (5% in water versus 2.5% in food) (IRIS 2006). The
presence of elevated zinc or chromium in the diet decreases cadmium
uptake.


Dermal

Absorption through the skin is not a significant route of cadmium
entry; only about 0.5% of cadmium is absorbed by the skin (ATSDR
1999).

  #59  
Old May 1st 17, 09:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 248
Default torque wrench issues



wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 May 2017 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Whenever you are working with galvanized steel it is important that
you take the necessary steps when prepping the metal before welding.
If you have properly prepped your metal before welding, you will help
reduce your exposure to zinc oxide fumes.

The usually suggested preparation for welding or brazing galvanized
materials is to grind all the galvanizing off!


Welding a joint with zinc still on the area would weaken the weld but who
am I to suggest that you're right?

Smokers have very high amounts of cadmium in their bodies. If you've
smoked for 50 years you probably have the maximum allowable amount of
cadmium in your body. You can get cadmium in your body by touching it. The
amount into your plasma is as high as 0.07%. The half-life of cadmium in
the body is about 10 years if memory serves.

But both zinc and cadmium would normally only accumulate to dangerous
levels at a rate that wouldn't harm you until long after you're dead
unless you're a smoker.

Or a careless welder.
Brazing spelter containing cadmium can make you sicker than a dog in
short order if you are breathing the fumes - as can the fumes from
welding galvanized steel. It only takes a few minutes to get you
wretching and puking and aching to the point you almost wish you
could die.


"galvanised" is galvanic protection - which can include any of several toxic
heavy metals.

Some people here seem to think it can only mean zinc.

The toxic dose of zinc is really quite large.

  #60  
Old May 1st 17, 09:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 248
Default torque wrench issues



wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 May 2017 19:25:05 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 23:14:27 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 22:10:43 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 4/30/2017 3:30 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 4/30/2017 12:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:53:16 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:16:22 +0100, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"John B Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:17:14 -0400,

wrote:

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:42:21 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:51:41 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 22:06:05 +0100,
"Benderthe.evilrobot"
wrote:


"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
I finally got the 1/2" torque wrench,
28-210 Nm, not even made in China, but in
Taiwan! Eh... I guess it depends who you ask if
that is China or not

It has a locking screw, a torque setting
handle, a scale (Nm as well as "FT-LB", some
English unit I take it?) - it also as a
locking lever on top just like an ordinary
ratchet, so it can go both ways, clockwise and
anti-clockwise.

The torques only work in the
clockwise direction. So if the
locking (ratchet) lever is set the other way,
it is just a ratchet, right? Well, in
the manual it says:

Note: Never use the torque wrench to undo
nuts, bolts or other fasteners as this will
damage the ratchet mechanism and the
calibrated settings.

So how does that add up? Is it only OK to use
the anti-clockwise pull to insert things, which
would require a left thread? (And it would be
just a long shaft, with the torque not
in effect.)

As for me, I don't plan using it for anything
but as a torque, because I have other, less
expensive ratchets and spanners to do the
everyday stuff. But of course, I'd like to know
what it means.

It also came with a certificate with data on
the calibration and in the manual it says it
should be recalibrated at least every
12 months.

Calibration is irrelevant if you don't follow the
rules to the
letter.

Most torque settings I've seen were for dry
threads - any stray
lubricant
and you might even twist the end off at the
correct torque.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Torque specs vary considerably by application.
Some are given as
clean and dry, some are given as lubricated with
oil - some are
given
cold, and others hot. That said, I personally have
never run across
a
torque spec that was so "close to the edge" that
torqing with "stray
lubrication" would cause immediate failure of the
bolt by twisting
off
the end.
However, that said, most of my wrenching has not
been on bicycles
but
on automobiles and agricultural and construction
equipment which may
be slightly more "overengineered" or "overbuilt"

Bicycles tend to have less things you can twist the
end off.

Its common on motorcycles, but mainly pulling the
threads out of alloy
castings. Its pretty rare to strip an engine down
so far that you can
put
the castings in degreasing plant - torquing the
engine case bolts with
oil
left in the holes is a very good chance of
stripping the threads.

As for stripping engine bolts, the Honda factory
used to install
fasteners so tight that a normal person couldn't get
them out without
an"impact driver". A tool that I never even saw
before the Japanese
invasion.

The lock washers were very effective where used, and
the Phipips style
bolts were incapable of delivering enough torque to
breat them loose
without camming out - the Hammer Impact driver solved
that problem

I believe I've read that the "Phillips" headed screws
in a Japanese
motorcycle are not actually "Phillips" but some
Japanese standard that
didn't quite match the screwdrivers we had in the U.S.
Which probably
didn't help either :-)

That's the *whole* cause - just grind a tiny bit off
the point of the
screwdriver bit and it fits just right.
The bits on my Impact driver fit perfectly without
grinding.
Note I said Philips "style" (I know, I mis-spelled it)
bolts.
Some of the early Jap stuff didn't use Cadmium plated
bolts either -

W10 imploded and I had to start over with a replacement
news account. So
back to old name.

The japs were the worst of the lot for cadmium plated
fasteners.

The very toxic cadmium rubs off on your hands and is
cumulative in the
body - it causes such acute osteoporosis; you can end up
fracturing ribs
just by coughing.

In the UK - nickel plated fasteners became fashionable
about the 80s. They
didn't do much about cadmium plated chassis in electronic
equipment until
RoHS.

AFAIK: cadmium batteries are exempt from RoHS - but
they've more or less
vanished from the shops anyway.

Cadmium is very nasty - wash your hands after handling
anything plated with
it!

from Cadmium, A Health Hazard Surface Treatment
C. Rehm
ESG
Einsteinstr. 174
D-81675 Munich, Germany

An object containing cadmium is not especially injurious
to health on
its own. No risk is involved simply by touching it.
A potential hazard occurs, however, when such objects are
processed
and high temperatures are generated.

Cadmium plating rubs off on your hands whenever you handle
cadmium plated parts and assemblies.

Many years ago they even used it on electronic component
leads to prevent oxidation - they used more aggressive
fluxes in those days.

Welding cad plated sheet steel is particularly dangerous -
the cadmium is vapourised and becomes airborne.

Usually the osteoporosis takes decades to start crippling
the sufferer - but I've heard of a repair technician
dropping dead after a couple of years from fumes using low
melting point cadmium based solder. The specific mode of
death wasn't announced.

The Japanese know all about it, they discharged industrial
effluent containing cadmium into heavily fished costal
waters. They even have a name for the disease - itai itai
byo. apparently its the noise sufferers make in their death
throes. As I mentioned previously - bones become so weak and
brittle, you can fracture ribs just by coughing.

Well then avoid it as you wish.

Many of us recognize the difference between metals and
reactive metallic organic compounds.

Zinc rich tablets are popular for symptoms of herpes
simplex and yet no one welds galvanize steel a second time.

Zinc can't be that toxic - its a usual ingredient of baby
powder.

Never heard of any warnings against welding zinc passivated
steel - only know of cadmium plating being very dangerous.

Fumes of burning zinc make your knees go soft as you vomit on the way
down. Don't try this at home.

When I was a kid, I liked throwing zinc batteries on the bonfire to
watch
them explode - no such effect was ever observed.

Even one single exhausted battery would have more zinc than a pretty
big
sheet of zinc plated steel - and would dwarf the amount of zinc
vapourised
by a weld run.




Whenever you are working with galvanized steel it is important that
you take the necessary steps when prepping the metal before welding.
If you have properly prepped your metal before welding, you will help
reduce your exposure to zinc oxide fumes.

The usually suggested preparation for welding or brazing galvanized
materials is to grind all the galvanizing off!


Genius!!! - you've invented a way to breathe it as dust instead of fumes.

Darwin must be biding his time with you...............................



Metallic sinc is not anywhere near as dangerous as the zinc oxide
fumes from over-heated zinc


Zinc oxide is the usual filler in heat transfer paste on heatsinks for power
semiconductor devices.

Total burnouts aren't as rare as most people would like - I've never heard
of any casualties from those events.

 




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