Disk brakes

On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 11:04:01 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 8:49:29 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 8:36:30 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:42:59 AM UTC-7, Tosspot wrote:
On 15/06/2020 19:10, Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for
mechanical or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either of
them really all that hard to keep working with properly? Seems if you
have bleed hydraulic that would be a little more but nut rocket
science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the
future is only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes in
going down long mountains and heating. Rain would make them better
too. Could all be completely overblown too?

Deacon Mark

I'd go hydraulic with mineral oil. Cable brakes require adjusting and
the cables crud up like any other cable system. DOT fluid requires
changing annually. Mineral oil is pretty much fit and forget. Nice
hard pads last forever if you don't need ultimate braking.

All my bikes have this set up.

Get the 1L bottle if you have a herd of Shimano disc bikes. https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=39972

The little bottles are ridiculously over-priced. I got my 1L for $17 on sale. It doesn't go bad after being opened like DOT fluid. I can spill it all over and still have enough for a lifetime.

That sounds good Jay, but the system uses almost no fluid (less than the small bottle) and never needs to be replenished unless you get a leak. And unless you overtighten the connector that's unlikely.

Installing brakes on four bikes, one with a leaky caliper caused by a bad internal seal (which I fixed), it paid to get the bigger bottle. Really, they want $10 for 100ml when I got 1,000ml for $17. That's an $83 savings. I'll sell it to the neighbors. I'll sell you 100ml for only $8 plus $1 shipping. You'll still save a dollar. And its Shimano and red. A liter of ordinary non-red and non-Shimano mineral oil is probably $2, but I'm not comfortable experimenting with my brakes. Plus it wouldn't be red. I'd have to buy food coloring.

-- Jay Beattie.

By the time I'm done I won't have any bikes that use disks. While rim carbon brakes aren't wonderful, these Pro Lite aero aluminum wheels brake more than enough. In rain and such I suppose it is nice to have disks but I don't ride in rain. A lack of traction is far worse than slower stopping.

On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 2:04:01 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 8:49:29 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 8:36:30 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:42:59 AM UTC-7, Tosspot wrote:
On 15/06/2020 19:10, Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for
mechanical or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either of
them really all that hard to keep working with properly? Seems if you
have bleed hydraulic that would be a little more but nut rocket
science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the
future is only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes in
going down long mountains and heating. Rain would make them better
too. Could all be completely overblown too?

Deacon Mark

I'd go hydraulic with mineral oil. Cable brakes require adjusting and
the cables crud up like any other cable system. DOT fluid requires
changing annually. Mineral oil is pretty much fit and forget. Nice
hard pads last forever if you don't need ultimate braking.

All my bikes have this set up.

Get the 1L bottle if you have a herd of Shimano disc bikes. https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=39972

The little bottles are ridiculously over-priced. I got my 1L for $17 on sale. It doesn't go bad after being opened like DOT fluid. I can spill it all over and still have enough for a lifetime.

That sounds good Jay, but the system uses almost no fluid (less than the small bottle) and never needs to be replenished unless you get a leak. And unless you overtighten the connector that's unlikely.

Installing brakes on four bikes, one with a leaky caliper caused by a bad internal seal (which I fixed), it paid to get the bigger bottle. Really, they want $10 for 100ml when I got 1,000ml for $17. That's an $83 savings. I'll sell it to the neighbors. I'll sell you 100ml for only $8 plus $1 shipping. You'll still save a dollar. And its Shimano and red. A liter of ordinary non-red and non-Shimano mineral oil is probably $2, but I'm not comfortable experimenting with my brakes. Plus it wouldn't be red. I'd have to buy food coloring.

Wait - as we all know, red paint makes bikes faster. So wouldn't red brake fluid be counterproductive? Don't you want some color that would make things slower??

Disc brakes are so confusing!

- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 3:05:50 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 2:04:01 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 8:49:29 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 8:36:30 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:42:59 AM UTC-7, Tosspot wrote:
On 15/06/2020 19:10, Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for
mechanical or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either of
them really all that hard to keep working with properly? Seems if you
have bleed hydraulic that would be a little more but nut rocket
science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the
future is only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes in
going down long mountains and heating. Rain would make them better
too. Could all be completely overblown too?

Deacon Mark

I'd go hydraulic with mineral oil. Cable brakes require adjusting and
the cables crud up like any other cable system. DOT fluid requires
changing annually. Mineral oil is pretty much fit and forget. Nice
hard pads last forever if you don't need ultimate braking.

All my bikes have this set up.

Get the 1L bottle if you have a herd of Shimano disc bikes. https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=39972

The little bottles are ridiculously over-priced. I got my 1L for $17 on sale. It doesn't go bad after being opened like DOT fluid. I can spill it all over and still have enough for a lifetime.

That sounds good Jay, but the system uses almost no fluid (less than the small bottle) and never needs to be replenished unless you get a leak. And unless you overtighten the connector that's unlikely.

Installing brakes on four bikes, one with a leaky caliper caused by a bad internal seal (which I fixed), it paid to get the bigger bottle. Really, they want $10 for 100ml when I got 1,000ml for $17. That's an $83 savings.. I'll sell it to the neighbors. I'll sell you 100ml for only $8 plus $1 shipping. You'll still save a dollar. And its Shimano and red. A liter of ordinary non-red and non-Shimano mineral oil is probably $2, but I'm not comfortable experimenting with my brakes. Plus it wouldn't be red. I'd have to buy food coloring.

Wait - as we all know, red paint makes bikes faster. So wouldn't red brake fluid be counterproductive? Don't you want some color that would make things slower??

Disc brakes are so confusing!

Red is both fast and slow (e.g. red lights). It is cool in the summer, warm in the winter, light, strong and inexpensive (all three, and not any two).. Red. It's America's color (with white and blue).

-- Jay Beattie.

On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 2:37:52 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 3:05:50 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 2:04:01 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 8:49:29 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 8:36:30 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:42:59 AM UTC-7, Tosspot wrote:
On 15/06/2020 19:10, Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for
mechanical or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either of
them really all that hard to keep working with properly? Seems if you
have bleed hydraulic that would be a little more but nut rocket
science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the
future is only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes in
going down long mountains and heating. Rain would make them better
too. Could all be completely overblown too?

Deacon Mark

I'd go hydraulic with mineral oil. Cable brakes require adjusting and
the cables crud up like any other cable system. DOT fluid requires
changing annually. Mineral oil is pretty much fit and forget. Nice
hard pads last forever if you don't need ultimate braking.

All my bikes have this set up.

Get the 1L bottle if you have a herd of Shimano disc bikes. https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=39972

The little bottles are ridiculously over-priced. I got my 1L for $17 on sale. It doesn't go bad after being opened like DOT fluid. I can spill it all over and still have enough for a lifetime.

That sounds good Jay, but the system uses almost no fluid (less than the small bottle) and never needs to be replenished unless you get a leak.. And unless you overtighten the connector that's unlikely.

Installing brakes on four bikes, one with a leaky caliper caused by a bad internal seal (which I fixed), it paid to get the bigger bottle. Really, they want $10 for 100ml when I got 1,000ml for $17. That's an $83 savings. I'll sell it to the neighbors. I'll sell you 100ml for only $8 plus $1 shipping. You'll still save a dollar. And its Shimano and red. A liter of ordinary non-red and non-Shimano mineral oil is probably $2, but I'm not comfortable experimenting with my brakes. Plus it wouldn't be red. I'd have to buy food coloring.

Wait - as we all know, red paint makes bikes faster. So wouldn't red brake fluid be counterproductive? Don't you want some color that would make things slower??

Disc brakes are so confusing!

Red is both fast and slow (e.g. red lights). It is cool in the summer, warm in the winter, light, strong and inexpensive (all three, and not any two). Red. It's America's color (with white and blue).

-- Jay Beattie.

Stiff and yet compliant.

Lou

On 17/06/2020 17:36, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:42:59 AM UTC-7, Tosspot wrote:
On 15/06/2020 19:10, Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for
mechanical or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either
of them really all that hard to keep working with properly? Seems
if you have bleed hydraulic that would be a little more but nut
rocket science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the
future is only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes
in going down long mountains and heating. Rain would make them
better too. Could all be completely overblown too?

Deacon Mark

I'd go hydraulic with mineral oil. Cable brakes require adjusting
and the cables crud up like any other cable system. DOT fluid
requires changing annually. Mineral oil is pretty much fit and
forget. Nice hard pads last forever if you don't need ultimate
braking.

All my bikes have this set up.

Get the 1L bottle if you have a herd of Shimano disc bikes.
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=39972

The little bottles are ridiculously over-priced. I got my 1L for
$17 on sale. It doesn't go bad after being opened like DOT fluid. I
can spill it all over and still have enough for a lifetime.

Funny enough I did that, and it has pushed by current life expectation
up to 204. It might even last longer than the copper slip, depending
how much I poor over the driveway :-(

On 6/15/2020 10:10 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for mechanical or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either of them really all that hard to keep working with properly? Seems if you have bleed hydraulic that would be a little more but nut rocket science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the future is only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes in going down long mountains and heating. Rain would make them better too. Could all be completely overblown too?

Deacon Mark

You already have disc brakes according to Grant Petersen:
https://www.rivbike.com/pages/disc-brakes

On 6/17/2020 8:37 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 3:05:50 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 2:04:01 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Installing brakes on four bikes, one with a leaky caliper caused by a bad internal seal (which I fixed), it paid to get the bigger bottle. Really, they want $10 for 100ml when I got 1,000ml for $17. That's an $83 savings. I'll sell it to the neighbors. I'll sell you 100ml for only $8 plus $1 shipping. You'll still save a dollar. And its Shimano and red. A liter of ordinary non-red and non-Shimano mineral oil is probably $2, but I'm not comfortable experimenting with my brakes. Plus it wouldn't be red. I'd have to buy food coloring.

Wait - as we all know, red paint makes bikes faster. So wouldn't red brake fluid be counterproductive? Don't you want some color that would make things slower??

Disc brakes are so confusing!

Red is both fast and slow (e.g. red lights).

Right, red lights! Isn't it now obvious why so many people run red
lights? It's the conflicting message, using "go fast" red to tell people
to stop.

I think it's time to change red brake fluid and red traffic lights to
blue. Gazing at a blue sky naturally slows a person down. And when a
blue flashing light is visible on a freeway, everyone slows down, even
if it's in the opposite lane.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 4:34:55 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 11:01:35 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/15/2020 1:10 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for
mechanical or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either of them
really all that hard to keep working with properly? Seems if you have
bleed hydraulic that would be a little more but nut rocket science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the future
is only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes in going down
long mountains and heating. Rain would make them better too. Could all
be completely overblown too?

"I do fine with rim brakes but I'm getting disc" is a very common meme
these days!

I've gone down mountains with rim brakes and heavy loads. I was aware of
the potential problem and was careful about it, but I never had that
problem. For people riding mountain bikes in mud or (like Jay) commuting
in six months of rain, discs make sense. For others, not so much, IMO.

I have only a tiny bit of experience working on discs, so I'm not
qualified to comment on hydro vs. cable, etc. My only advice is to buy
extra pads early (maybe on sale?) and carry one set when you ride.

I'd worry, perhaps needlessly, about someday being told "Oh, you need
pads for an Acme 1100-Z disc brake? Dude, that's SO unfashionable! They
stopped making pads for that one five years ago!"


--
- Frank Krygowski

Hé, Frank what took you so long? I'm a little disappointed.

Lou

This was all very helpful. Now the question is how much do replacement
pads cost. Personally I can see no reason to go to disk but in the rain
would be the first reason. I live in Illinois so we are flat as a
pancake. Not sure the longest descent in the mountains I have done but
not done a lot of riding in mountains. One time around Bozeman Mt and I
did fine on a rental bike. I would like to travel and do some riding in
mountains. The steepest grade of any length I have gone down is about 6%
for a mile and feather the brakes but have no idea how much you have to
descend until brakes get hot.

Depend really, I’ve come off MT Teide so 22 ish miles and 5%, on rim and
disks no issues with either it’s bone dry and fairly smooth down, equally
close to where I grew up is a 1/2 mile 20% off road plummet and that if wet
you can hear the disks boiling off any water from vegetation! Long way from
brake fad though even so.

One other item is taking the wheel off and on any more tricky or harder
to line up. Seem they don't use quick release levers? I would hope it is
easy to set up because would not want brake rub.


Some of the older though axels are a pain, but most new are easy to use if
slightly slower, but more secure so less disk zing!

Deacon Mark


Roger Merriman

On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 8:26:44 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 4:34:55 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 11:01:35 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/15/2020 1:10 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for
mechanical or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either of them
really all that hard to keep working with properly? Seems if you have
bleed hydraulic that would be a little more but nut rocket science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the future
is only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes in going down
long mountains and heating. Rain would make them better too. Could all
be completely overblown too?

"I do fine with rim brakes but I'm getting disc" is a very common meme
these days!

I've gone down mountains with rim brakes and heavy loads. I was aware of
the potential problem and was careful about it, but I never had that
problem. For people riding mountain bikes in mud or (like Jay) commuting
in six months of rain, discs make sense. For others, not so much, IMO..

I have only a tiny bit of experience working on discs, so I'm not
qualified to comment on hydro vs. cable, etc. My only advice is to buy
extra pads early (maybe on sale?) and carry one set when you ride.

I'd worry, perhaps needlessly, about someday being told "Oh, you need
pads for an Acme 1100-Z disc brake? Dude, that's SO unfashionable! They
stopped making pads for that one five years ago!"


--
- Frank Krygowski

Hé, Frank what took you so long? I'm a little disappointed.

Lou

This was all very helpful. Now the question is how much do replacement
pads cost. Personally I can see no reason to go to disk but in the rain
would be the first reason. I live in Illinois so we are flat as a
pancake. Not sure the longest descent in the mountains I have done but
not done a lot of riding in mountains. One time around Bozeman Mt and I
did fine on a rental bike. I would like to travel and do some riding in
mountains. The steepest grade of any length I have gone down is about 6%
for a mile and feather the brakes but have no idea how much you have to
descend until brakes get hot.

Depend really, I’ve come off MT Teide so 22 ish miles and 5%, on rim and
disks no issues with either it’s bone dry and fairly smooth down, equally
close to where I grew up is a 1/2 mile 20% off road plummet and that if wet
you can hear the disks boiling off any water from vegetation! Long way from
brake fad though even so.

One other item is taking the wheel off and on any more tricky or harder
to line up. Seem they don't use quick release levers? I would hope it is
easy to set up because would not want brake rub.


Some of the older though axels are a pain, but most new are easy to use if
slightly slower, but more secure so less disk zing!

Deacon Mark


Roger Merriman

I think that probably disk wear is a larger problem than brake pad wear since they are so cheap and it only takes a minute to replace them.

If you like very strong brakes than a disk is pretty much the way to go. But I feather the brakes a lot and direct mount brakes in particular are my choice.

wrote:
On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 8:26:44 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 4:34:55 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 11:01:35 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/15/2020 1:10 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
So if I go the disk brakes route thinking Lynskey. Option for
mechanical or hydraulic, what is the better option? Are either of them
really all that hard to keep working with properly? Seems if you have
bleed hydraulic that would be a little more but nut rocket science.

Finally I really do fine with standard rim brakes but seems the future
is only in disk. I can only see a downside to rim brakes in going down
long mountains and heating. Rain would make them better too. Could all
be completely overblown too?

"I do fine with rim brakes but I'm getting disc" is a very common meme
these days!

I've gone down mountains with rim brakes and heavy loads. I was aware of
the potential problem and was careful about it, but I never had that
problem. For people riding mountain bikes in mud or (like Jay) commuting
in six months of rain, discs make sense. For others, not so much, IMO.

I have only a tiny bit of experience working on discs, so I'm not
qualified to comment on hydro vs. cable, etc. My only advice is to buy
extra pads early (maybe on sale?) and carry one set when you ride.

I'd worry, perhaps needlessly, about someday being told "Oh, you need
pads for an Acme 1100-Z disc brake? Dude, that's SO unfashionable! They
stopped making pads for that one five years ago!"


--
- Frank Krygowski

Hé, Frank what took you so long? I'm a little disappointed.

Lou

This was all very helpful. Now the question is how much do replacement
pads cost. Personally I can see no reason to go to disk but in the rain
would be the first reason. I live in Illinois so we are flat as a
pancake. Not sure the longest descent in the mountains I have done but
not done a lot of riding in mountains. One time around Bozeman Mt and I
did fine on a rental bike. I would like to travel and do some riding in
mountains. The steepest grade of any length I have gone down is about 6%
for a mile and feather the brakes but have no idea how much you have to
descend until brakes get hot.

Depend really, I’ve come off MT Teide so 22 ish miles and 5%, on rim and
disks no issues with either it’s bone dry and fairly smooth down, equally
close to where I grew up is a 1/2 mile 20% off road plummet and that if wet
you can hear the disks boiling off any water from vegetation! Long way from
brake fad though even so.

One other item is taking the wheel off and on any more tricky or harder
to line up. Seem they don't use quick release levers? I would hope it is
easy to set up because would not want brake rub.


Some of the older though axels are a pain, but most new are easy to use if
slightly slower, but more secure so less disk zing!

Deacon Mark


Roger Merriman

I think that probably disk wear is a larger problem than brake pad wear
since they are so cheap and it only takes a minute to replace them.

If you like very strong brakes than a disk is pretty much the way to go.
But I feather the brakes a lot and direct mount brakes in particular are my choice.

Again that depends I get 1000 or so miles on a mixed surfaces commute, are
purely road particularly summer best bike I’d assume at least twice that.

Clearly can get lower and in mid winter on the MTB/Gravel bike can be 500
or less but that does require a truly soggy gritty ride!

To be honest in terms of pad change and cost very close, both cost £5/10
for a set and assuming you have cassette type for your rim brakes, is
broadly the same, take old out, slide new in, yes some people like to take
a day over it, clean with tears from unicorns and such, but it’s not
needed, change pads wash dead sheep out, move on.

The only gotcha with disks is the wear rate with Hydraulic is because it’s
less easy to see the pads and the brake will keep working until it’s metal
to metal! Will still work but not as well and incredibly noisy as it does!

Clearly if one is used to rim brakes then that can be a choice, for summer
best bikes probably not hugely advantages.

Roger Merriman