Shimano availability?

Mark cleary wrote:
So COVID has shot the groupsets of Shimano. I am not a dura-ace person
and I still shift with cables. Are they going to be making or shipping
Ultegra or 105 stuff. Maybe it all is dried but and in the end looking
for it will never come. I would even go to a disk brake set up if I could
find 105 stuff. I have Ultegra now but frankly 105 is just as good.
Deacon mark


Seems to help if you have slightly older kit, most of mine is 10s and seems
to be fine, though the new Brake pads are hard to get hold of, as it’s the
same as GRX but the older designed pads are still easy to get for my other
two bikes.

Roger Merriman

On 6/8/2021 2:20 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 7:58:04 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2021 10:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/7/2021 10:52 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 16:11:51 -0700 (PDT), Mark cleary
wrote:

So COVID has shot the groupsets of Shimano. I am not a
dura-ace person and I still shift with cables. Are they
going to be making or shipping Ultegra or 105 stuff.
Maybe it all is dried but and in the end looking for it
will never come. I would even go to a disk brake set up
if I could find 105 stuff. I have Ultegra now but frankly
105 is just as good.
Deacon mark

While you're waiting, you might consider making your own
parts (and
selling extra parts to others in your situation). For
example:
https://stlbase.com/browse/bicycle+shimano/
https://www.yeggi.com/q/shimano/
Unfortunately, making the stamped steel cassette gears
will probably
be too difficult. However, it might be possible to use a
water jet
cutter to make the chainrings.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=waterjet+cutter+bicycle+chainrin g


Mo
https://www.google.com/search?q=3d+printed+bicycle+parts&tbm=isch


A bit more seriously: I've sometimes thought it would be
nice to have access to a CNC mill, to refurbish freewheel
cogs. It would keep my ancient SunTour freewheels going.

Is that even possible? Any material removal just reduces
the root diameter, right?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

You beat me to it Andy. I was thinking the exact same thing when I read Frank's post. What good would a mill do you since it removes material. Grinds steel away. With cassette or freewheel cogs, the chain has ground off metal through use. So how would a mill grinding more material off help anything. Unless you were going to use the mill to grind, make, all new freewheel cogs and then disassemble and reassemble the freewheel. But I think you are getting close to the cure cancer and end hunger and peace in the world category at that point. I've heard freewheels are not something human beings disassemble and repair the internals. At least not sane ones.

I'll just mention that I've heard of others refurbishing freewheel cogs
manually, using a similar but less precise strategy. IIRC, James (who
posts here from Oz) claimed to have done that. John Forester also used
to claim he did it.

Again, this CNC scheme is hypothetical, at least for me. I no longer
have access to a CNC mill, and there are alternative strategies that are
easier. But if a person wanted to (say) restore a rare antique I don't
see a reason the CNC strategy wouldn't work.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/8/2021 1:20 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 7:58:04 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2021 10:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/7/2021 10:52 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 16:11:51 -0700 (PDT), Mark cleary
wrote:

So COVID has shot the groupsets of Shimano. I am not a
dura-ace person and I still shift with cables. Are they
going to be making or shipping Ultegra or 105 stuff.
Maybe it all is dried but and in the end looking for it
will never come. I would even go to a disk brake set up
if I could find 105 stuff. I have Ultegra now but frankly
105 is just as good.
Deacon mark

While you're waiting, you might consider making your own
parts (and
selling extra parts to others in your situation). For
example:
https://stlbase.com/browse/bicycle+shimano/
https://www.yeggi.com/q/shimano/
Unfortunately, making the stamped steel cassette gears
will probably
be too difficult. However, it might be possible to use a
water jet
cutter to make the chainrings.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=waterjet+cutter+bicycle+chainrin g


Mo
https://www.google.com/search?q=3d+printed+bicycle+parts&tbm=isch


A bit more seriously: I've sometimes thought it would be
nice to have access to a CNC mill, to refurbish freewheel
cogs. It would keep my ancient SunTour freewheels going.

Is that even possible? Any material removal just reduces
the root diameter, right?

You beat me to it Andy. I was thinking the exact same thing when I read Frank's post. What good would a mill do you since it removes material. Grinds steel away. With cassette or freewheel cogs, the chain has ground off metal through use. So how would a mill grinding more material off help anything. Unless you were going to use the mill to grind, make, all new freewheel cogs and then disassemble and reassemble the freewheel. But I think you are getting close to the cure cancer and end hunger and peace in the world category at that point. I've heard freewheels are not something human beings disassemble and repair the internals. At least not sane ones.


Steel cassette sprockets are best coined not cut anyway.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/8/2021 2:24 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/8/2021 2:20 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 7:58:04 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2021 10:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/7/2021 10:52 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 16:11:51 -0700 (PDT), Mark cleary
wrote:

So COVID has shot the groupsets of Shimano. I am not a
dura-ace person and I still shift with cables. Are they
going to be making or shipping Ultegra or 105 stuff.
Maybe it all is dried but and in the end looking for it
will never come. I would even go to a disk brake set up
if I could find 105 stuff. I have Ultegra now but frankly
105 is just as good.
Deacon mark

While you're waiting, you might consider making your own
parts (and
selling extra parts to others in your situation). For
example:
https://stlbase.com/browse/bicycle+shimano/
https://www.yeggi.com/q/shimano/
Unfortunately, making the stamped steel cassette gears
will probably
be too difficult. However, it might be possible to use a
water jet
cutter to make the chainrings.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=waterjet+cutter+bicycle+chainrin g



Mo
https://www.google.com/search?q=3d+printed+bicycle+parts&tbm=isch



A bit more seriously: I've sometimes thought it would be
nice to have access to a CNC mill, to refurbish freewheel
cogs. It would keep my ancient SunTour freewheels going.

Is that even possible? Any material removal just reduces
the root diameter, right?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

You beat me to it Andy. I was thinking the exact same
thing when I read Frank's post. What good would a mill do
you since it removes material. Grinds steel away. With
cassette or freewheel cogs, the chain has ground off metal
through use. So how would a mill grinding more material
off help anything. Unless you were going to use the mill
to grind, make, all new freewheel cogs and then
disassemble and reassemble the freewheel. But I think you
are getting close to the cure cancer and end hunger and
peace in the world category at that point. I've heard
freewheels are not something human beings disassemble and
repair the internals. At least not sane ones.

I'll just mention that I've heard of others refurbishing
freewheel cogs manually, using a similar but less precise
strategy. IIRC, James (who posts here from Oz) claimed to
have done that. John Forester also used to claim he did it.

Again, this CNC scheme is hypothetical, at least for me. I
no longer have access to a CNC mill, and there are
alternative strategies that are easier. But if a person
wanted to (say) restore a rare antique I don't see a reason
the CNC strategy wouldn't work.




I'm not an engineer but the root diameter can't get any
larger by subtractive machining.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 3:24:13 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/8/2021 2:20 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 7:58:04 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2021 10:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/7/2021 10:52 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 16:11:51 -0700 (PDT), Mark cleary
wrote:

So COVID has shot the groupsets of Shimano. I am not a
dura-ace person and I still shift with cables. Are they
going to be making or shipping Ultegra or 105 stuff.
Maybe it all is dried but and in the end looking for it
will never come. I would even go to a disk brake set up
if I could find 105 stuff. I have Ultegra now but frankly
105 is just as good.
Deacon mark

While you're waiting, you might consider making your own
parts (and
selling extra parts to others in your situation). For
example:
https://stlbase.com/browse/bicycle+shimano/
https://www.yeggi.com/q/shimano/
Unfortunately, making the stamped steel cassette gears
will probably
be too difficult. However, it might be possible to use a
water jet
cutter to make the chainrings.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=waterjet+cutter+bicycle+chainrin g


Mo
https://www.google.com/search?q=3d+printed+bicycle+parts&tbm=isch


A bit more seriously: I've sometimes thought it would be
nice to have access to a CNC mill, to refurbish freewheel
cogs. It would keep my ancient SunTour freewheels going.

Is that even possible? Any material removal just reduces
the root diameter, right?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

You beat me to it Andy. I was thinking the exact same thing when I read Frank's post. What good would a mill do you since it removes material. Grinds steel away. With cassette or freewheel cogs, the chain has ground off metal through use. So how would a mill grinding more material off help anything. Unless you were going to use the mill to grind, make, all new freewheel cogs and then disassemble and reassemble the freewheel. But I think you are getting close to the cure cancer and end hunger and peace in the world category at that point. I've heard freewheels are not something human beings disassemble and repair the internals. At least not sane ones.
I'll just mention that I've heard of others refurbishing freewheel cogs
manually, using a similar but less precise strategy. IIRC, James (who
posts here from Oz) claimed to have done that. John Forester also used
to claim he did it.

Again, this CNC scheme is hypothetical, at least for me. I no longer
have access to a CNC mill, and there are alternative strategies that are
easier. But if a person wanted to (say) restore a rare antique I don't
see a reason the CNC strategy wouldn't work.


--
- Frank Krygowski

I it possible to disaasemble the cogs from the body, t hen flip the cogs and reinstall them as can be done with Uniglide Cassette cogs?

Cheers

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 2:22:59 p.m. UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
Mark cleary wrote:
So COVID has shot the groupsets of Shimano. I am not a dura-ace person
and I still shift with cables. Are they going to be making or shipping
Ultegra or 105 stuff. Maybe it all is dried but and in the end looking
for it will never come. I would even go to a disk brake set up if I could
find 105 stuff. I have Ultegra now but frankly 105 is just as good.
Deacon mark

Seems to help if you have slightly older kit, most of mine is 10s and seems
to be fine, though the new Brake pads are hard to get hold of, as it’s the
same as GRX but the older designed pads are still easy to get for my other
two bikes.

Roger Merriman

Older kit can have advantages. I have a number of bicycle wheels with Uniglide cassettes on them. If/when the cogs get badly worn, I can flip the cogs (except for the last one that screws on, and have what works like an almost new setup.

Cheers

On 6/8/2021 5:03 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 3:24:13 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/8/2021 2:20 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 7:58:04 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2021 10:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/7/2021 10:52 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 16:11:51 -0700 (PDT), Mark cleary
wrote:

So COVID has shot the groupsets of Shimano. I am not a
dura-ace person and I still shift with cables. Are they
going to be making or shipping Ultegra or 105 stuff.
Maybe it all is dried but and in the end looking for it
will never come. I would even go to a disk brake set up
if I could find 105 stuff. I have Ultegra now but frankly
105 is just as good.
Deacon mark

While you're waiting, you might consider making your own
parts (and
selling extra parts to others in your situation). For
example:
https://stlbase.com/browse/bicycle+shimano/
https://www.yeggi.com/q/shimano/
Unfortunately, making the stamped steel cassette gears
will probably
be too difficult. However, it might be possible to use a
water jet
cutter to make the chainrings.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=waterjet+cutter+bicycle+chainrin g


Mo
https://www.google.com/search?q=3d+printed+bicycle+parts&tbm=isch


A bit more seriously: I've sometimes thought it would be
nice to have access to a CNC mill, to refurbish freewheel
cogs. It would keep my ancient SunTour freewheels going.

Is that even possible? Any material removal just reduces
the root diameter, right?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

You beat me to it Andy. I was thinking the exact same thing when I read Frank's post. What good would a mill do you since it removes material. Grinds steel away. With cassette or freewheel cogs, the chain has ground off metal through use. So how would a mill grinding more material off help anything. Unless you were going to use the mill to grind, make, all new freewheel cogs and then disassemble and reassemble the freewheel. But I think you are getting close to the cure cancer and end hunger and peace in the world category at that point. I've heard freewheels are not something human beings disassemble and repair the internals. At least not sane ones.
I'll just mention that I've heard of others refurbishing freewheel cogs
manually, using a similar but less precise strategy. IIRC, James (who
posts here from Oz) claimed to have done that. John Forester also used
to claim he did it.

Again, this CNC scheme is hypothetical, at least for me. I no longer
have access to a CNC mill, and there are alternative strategies that are
easier. But if a person wanted to (say) restore a rare antique I don't
see a reason the CNC strategy wouldn't work.


--
- Frank Krygowski

I it possible to disaasemble the cogs from the body, t hen flip the cogs and reinstall them as can be done with Uniglide Cassette cogs?

Cheers


Mostly yes with much more effort than UG sprockets.

Compare EXA and UD for example:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/CACS890.JPG

UG and HG show a similar format change

Besides that, modern high gear sprockets are necessarily
made with an integrated spacer and so cannot be 'flipped'
(those are the fastest wearing sprockets).

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 6:23:58 p.m. UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/8/2021 5:03 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 3:24:13 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/8/2021 2:20 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 7:58:04 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2021 10:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/7/2021 10:52 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 16:11:51 -0700 (PDT), Mark cleary
wrote:

So COVID has shot the groupsets of Shimano. I am not a
dura-ace person and I still shift with cables. Are they
going to be making or shipping Ultegra or 105 stuff.
Maybe it all is dried but and in the end looking for it
will never come. I would even go to a disk brake set up
if I could find 105 stuff. I have Ultegra now but frankly
105 is just as good.
Deacon mark

While you're waiting, you might consider making your own
parts (and
selling extra parts to others in your situation). For
example:
https://stlbase.com/browse/bicycle+shimano/
https://www.yeggi.com/q/shimano/
Unfortunately, making the stamped steel cassette gears
will probably
be too difficult. However, it might be possible to use a
water jet
cutter to make the chainrings.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=waterjet+cutter+bicycle+chainrin g


Mo
https://www.google.com/search?q=3d+printed+bicycle+parts&tbm=isch


A bit more seriously: I've sometimes thought it would be
nice to have access to a CNC mill, to refurbish freewheel
cogs. It would keep my ancient SunTour freewheels going.

Is that even possible? Any material removal just reduces
the root diameter, right?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

You beat me to it Andy. I was thinking the exact same thing when I read Frank's post. What good would a mill do you since it removes material. Grinds steel away. With cassette or freewheel cogs, the chain has ground off metal through use. So how would a mill grinding more material off help anything. Unless you were going to use the mill to grind, make, all new freewheel cogs and then disassemble and reassemble the freewheel. But I think you are getting close to the cure cancer and end hunger and peace in the world category at that point. I've heard freewheels are not something human beings disassemble and repair the internals. At least not sane ones.
I'll just mention that I've heard of others refurbishing freewheel cogs
manually, using a similar but less precise strategy. IIRC, James (who
posts here from Oz) claimed to have done that. John Forester also used
to claim he did it.

Again, this CNC scheme is hypothetical, at least for me. I no longer
have access to a CNC mill, and there are alternative strategies that are
easier. But if a person wanted to (say) restore a rare antique I don't
see a reason the CNC strategy wouldn't work.


--
- Frank Krygowski

I it possible to disaasemble the cogs from the body, t hen flip the cogs and reinstall them as can be done with Uniglide Cassette cogs?

Cheers

Mostly yes with much more effort than UG sprockets.

Compare EXA and UD for example:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/CACS890.JPG

UG and HG show a similar format change

Besides that, modern high gear sprockets are necessarily
made with an integrated spacer and so cannot be 'flipped'
(those are the fastest wearing sprockets).
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I was thinking that perhaps people could flip the cogs on old 6 0r 7 speed freeheels.

Cheers

On 6/8/2021 6:10 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 6:23:58 p.m. UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/8/2021 5:03 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 3:24:13 p.m. UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/8/2021 2:20 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 7:58:04 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2021 10:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/7/2021 10:52 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 16:11:51 -0700 (PDT), Mark cleary
wrote:

So COVID has shot the groupsets of Shimano. I am not a
dura-ace person and I still shift with cables. Are they
going to be making or shipping Ultegra or 105 stuff.
Maybe it all is dried but and in the end looking for it
will never come. I would even go to a disk brake set up
if I could find 105 stuff. I have Ultegra now but frankly
105 is just as good.
Deacon mark

While you're waiting, you might consider making your own
parts (and
selling extra parts to others in your situation). For
example:
https://stlbase.com/browse/bicycle+shimano/
https://www.yeggi.com/q/shimano/
Unfortunately, making the stamped steel cassette gears
will probably
be too difficult. However, it might be possible to use a
water jet
cutter to make the chainrings.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=waterjet+cutter+bicycle+chainrin g


Mo
https://www.google.com/search?q=3d+printed+bicycle+parts&tbm=isch


A bit more seriously: I've sometimes thought it would be
nice to have access to a CNC mill, to refurbish freewheel
cogs. It would keep my ancient SunTour freewheels going.

Is that even possible? Any material removal just reduces
the root diameter, right?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

You beat me to it Andy. I was thinking the exact same thing when I read Frank's post. What good would a mill do you since it removes material. Grinds steel away. With cassette or freewheel cogs, the chain has ground off metal through use. So how would a mill grinding more material off help anything. Unless you were going to use the mill to grind, make, all new freewheel cogs and then disassemble and reassemble the freewheel. But I think you are getting close to the cure cancer and end hunger and peace in the world category at that point. I've heard freewheels are not something human beings disassemble and repair the internals. At least not sane ones.
I'll just mention that I've heard of others refurbishing freewheel cogs
manually, using a similar but less precise strategy. IIRC, James (who
posts here from Oz) claimed to have done that. John Forester also used
to claim he did it.

Again, this CNC scheme is hypothetical, at least for me. I no longer
have access to a CNC mill, and there are alternative strategies that are
easier. But if a person wanted to (say) restore a rare antique I don't
see a reason the CNC strategy wouldn't work.


--
- Frank Krygowski

I it possible to disaasemble the cogs from the body, t hen flip the cogs and reinstall them as can be done with Uniglide Cassette cogs?

Cheers

Mostly yes with much more effort than UG sprockets.

Compare EXA and UD for example:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/CACS890.JPG

UG and HG show a similar format change

Besides that, modern high gear sprockets are necessarily
made with an integrated spacer and so cannot be 'flipped'
(those are the fastest wearing sprockets).
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I was thinking that perhaps people could flip the cogs on old 6 0r 7 speed freeheels.

Cheers


Some freewheel sprockets yes but many no.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 11:20:52 AM UTC-7, wrote:
You beat me to it Andy. I was thinking the exact same thing when I read Frank's post. What good would a mill do you since it removes material. Grinds steel away. With cassette or freewheel cogs, the chain has ground off metal through use. So how would a mill grinding more material off help anything.

It's all about restoring the pressure angle. Imagine hanging coat hangers on the edge of a thick overhead wooden shelf. Now imagine regularly pulling loaded coat hangers off of that edge and the wood eroding. Eventually, the nice sharp corner of the shelf gets rounded off and a bevel worn onto it. Eventually, the bevel gets so bad you can't hang things on it any more.

The machining suggested here is equivalent to cutting a rabbet in where the bevel has worn. By removing material, you restore a level surface that hangers can again rest on without sliding off.

So it is with cog shape. The interaction between a sprocket and chain largely boils down to the pressure angle that chain rollers see at the pitch diameter. The machining proposed here is all about restoring that pressure angle.

-Luns