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#91
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How long should caliper brake springs last?
On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 18:46:28 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote: On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 11:15:43 -0700, Joerg wrote: Alcohol is tapped out, you can buy anything from non-alcoholic beer to hardcore high-ABV liquor. Moonshiners can't offer much in "benefits" even for alcoholics. Moonshiners offer ready availability in dry counties, which are more prevalent in the southern US and not coincidentally moonshiners are mre prevalent in the south. So there is that. Since it isn't taxed, I wonder if moonshine is cheaper than buying cheap booze at the liquor store. Given how cheap the lowest tier liquors are, that's hard to picture. Perhaps the real allure of moonshine is that it's illegal and has an outlaw image of freedom that appeals to some. In some parts of the country it is part of the culture. That said, improperly distilled alcohol is far from safe. You can buy "moonshine" branded products in liquor stores, packaged in canning jars and all. I've never tasted it. :-) I have :-) and "corn whiskey" as usually sold by bootleggers is not that flavorful, in fact it has, as mentioned by the supreme court, no socially redeeming qualities, but on the other hand it is cheap and, if you know your source, probably 50% or more alcohol. But then single malt scotch, right out of the still, is also pretty retched stuff :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
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#92
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How long should caliper brake springs last?
John B. writes:
On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 14:03:42 -0400, Radey Shouman wrote: Joerg writes: On 2017-08-06 19:28, Radey Shouman wrote: jbeattie writes: On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:24:21 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 9:53:01 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: [...] I think legalization would have to be done very carefully, though, as part of a total package. And I think an essential part of the package should be to stop glamorizing use of pot (let alone other drugs) as fashionable and funny. It bothers me when comedians, films, songs, etc. glorify chemical-induced stupidity. As Joerg pointed out - legalize one drug and you might as well legalize them all because people will ALWAYS try the newer stronger street drugs. Alcohol is a drug -- more dangerous than cannabis. Alcohol destroys more lives than all the illegal drugs put together. http://www.drugwarfacts.org/chapter/causes_of_death Might as well legalize heroin now. If heroin had been legalized it is unlikely that fentanyl would be the problem that it is. It certainly would not be sold, randomly, as heroin. The drug dealing criminals would invent the next "upgrade". Guaranteed. Those guys don't just give up their revenue stream, roll over and play dead. It'll be a constant ratcheting up in drug potency or, for the addicts, a death spiral. But who would buy? There is a small market for dodgy, adulterated alchohol in the US at this time, but for some reason it's not nearly as big as it was back during Prohibition. Long after prohibition was abolished there was still a booming market for illegal, i.e., non tax paid, alcohol. In fact I was introduced to a "high school friend" of a fellow I worked with who was a bootlegger. He still made a little "corn liquor" as some people still drank it but he said that the bulk of his output was straight alcohol which was sold to "people from up north" who, he assumed, used to make fake whiskey. Similar, but different country: http://tinyurl.com/ycyx7sc3 It's true that organized criminals don't just give up, which is why we still have criminal organizations that date from that era. However, except for state to state tax arbitrage (smuggling) they don't much deal in alcohol. Actually cigarette smuggling appears to be alive and well http://tinyurl.com/y7dl2t6h I thought that was what I said. Cigarette smuggling is a big business, not to mention the occasional hijack of an entire semi trucks full of butts. -- |
#93
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How long should caliper brake springs last?
Joerg writes:
On 2017-08-09 11:03, Radey Shouman wrote: Joerg writes: On 2017-08-06 19:28, Radey Shouman wrote: jbeattie writes: On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:24:21 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 9:53:01 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: [...] I think legalization would have to be done very carefully, though, as part of a total package. And I think an essential part of the package should be to stop glamorizing use of pot (let alone other drugs) as fashionable and funny. It bothers me when comedians, films, songs, etc. glorify chemical-induced stupidity. As Joerg pointed out - legalize one drug and you might as well legalize them all because people will ALWAYS try the newer stronger street drugs. Alcohol is a drug -- more dangerous than cannabis. Alcohol destroys more lives than all the illegal drugs put together. http://www.drugwarfacts.org/chapter/causes_of_death Might as well legalize heroin now. If heroin had been legalized it is unlikely that fentanyl would be the problem that it is. It certainly would not be sold, randomly, as heroin. The drug dealing criminals would invent the next "upgrade". Guaranteed. Those guys don't just give up their revenue stream, roll over and play dead. It'll be a constant ratcheting up in drug potency or, for the addicts, a death spiral. But who would buy? ... People who fall for the peer pressure thing. "You've got to try this other stuff that the guy over there at the bar sells. It's cool, man!". This is how people came to grief in the village where I lived in the Netherlands. Many, perhaps most people who use opiods are addicts, which means that they regularly use a drug just to feel normal. They may sometimes want something out of the ordinary, and are surely on the low end of substance risk-averse scale, but usually they want their usual dose of their usual drug. With fentanyl and similar new narcotics, though, they run the risk of unexpectedly getting something much stronger than usual. Imagine drinking your next beer not know whether or not it would have the effect of a big glass of vodka, then multiply by a few orders of magnitude. This kind of random quality control would never be permitted in a market with any kind of regulation. I doubt that much of it is deliberate, it's just that fentanyl is effective in microgram doses, and drug dealers aren't good enough at measuring. Cops are now (justifiably) worried about suffering overdoses simply through skin exposure. It's not the users that demanded higher potency narcotics, it's simple economics. For big drug smugglers the cost at the source is literally negligible, the only important thing is the cost of shipping a dose. ... There is a small market for dodgy, adulterated alchohol in the US at this time, but for some reason it's not nearly as big as it was back during Prohibition. It's true that organized criminals don't just give up, which is why we still have criminal organizations that date from that era. However, except for state to state tax arbitrage (smuggling) they don't much deal in alcohol. Alcohol is tapped out, you can buy anything from non-alcoholic beer to hardcore high-ABV liquor. Moonshiners can't offer much in "benefits" even for alcoholics. That is very different in the world of drugs. They have stuff that can turn people into complete addicts in just a few sessions. A few years ago there was a fashion for heavily advertised high-caffeine alcoholic drinks. These were alleged to be worse for (particularly young) drinkers than the usual run of drinks, and were banned. They disappeared from the market. -- |
#94
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How long should caliper brake springs last?
On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 08:53:45 +0700, John B wrote:
Tim McNamara wrote: You can buy "moonshine" branded products in liquor stores, packaged in canning jars and all. I've never tasted it. :-) I have :-) and "corn whiskey" as usually sold by bootleggers is not that flavorful, in fact it has, as mentioned by the supreme court, no socially redeeming qualities, but on the other hand it is cheap and, if you know your source, probably 50% or more alcohol. Well, the purpose might not be the taste experience. Knowing next to nothing about moonshine I looked around on the web this afternoon, which has resulted in my probably knowing less than nothing now. It sounds like a fair amount of moonshine is made from a sugar base rather than a grain base; when grain is used, seems like corn (maize) is the usual staple. Frank mentioned poitin (Irish moonshine, pronounced "puh-cheen") which unsurprisingly is often made from potatos; there are commercial versions stocked at the local liquor store but I've never tried them. Other than a few selected whiskeys and occasionally aquavit (my wife's family is Danish), liquor holds little interest for me; I prefer beer or wine as a beverage. Don't like cocktails. But then single malt scotch, right out of the still, is also pretty retched stuff :-) -- Cheers, Most all the distilled alcohols are that way, until they are aged and flavored with barrel aging like the whiskeys, decoctions like gin and aquavit, etc. I have no idea what happens with vodka, if there is any aging benefit for the non-flavored versions. I have read that virtually all of the vodkas sold in the US come from one of two sources- Archer Daniels Midland and another big agrabusinessthat I can't remember offhand. They are the biggest distillers in the country and sell the stuff by the tanker load to be bottled and packaged for very profitable resale at various price points. $15 a bottle or $100 a bottle, the odds are pretty good it's the same vodka. |
#95
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How long should caliper brake springs last?
On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 22:39:36 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote: Joerg writes: On 2017-08-09 11:03, Radey Shouman wrote: Joerg writes: On 2017-08-06 19:28, Radey Shouman wrote: jbeattie writes: On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:24:21 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 9:53:01 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: [...] I think legalization would have to be done very carefully, though, as part of a total package. And I think an essential part of the package should be to stop glamorizing use of pot (let alone other drugs) as fashionable and funny. It bothers me when comedians, films, songs, etc. glorify chemical-induced stupidity. As Joerg pointed out - legalize one drug and you might as well legalize them all because people will ALWAYS try the newer stronger street drugs. Alcohol is a drug -- more dangerous than cannabis. Alcohol destroys more lives than all the illegal drugs put together. http://www.drugwarfacts.org/chapter/causes_of_death Might as well legalize heroin now. If heroin had been legalized it is unlikely that fentanyl would be the problem that it is. It certainly would not be sold, randomly, as heroin. The drug dealing criminals would invent the next "upgrade". Guaranteed. Those guys don't just give up their revenue stream, roll over and play dead. It'll be a constant ratcheting up in drug potency or, for the addicts, a death spiral. But who would buy? ... People who fall for the peer pressure thing. "You've got to try this other stuff that the guy over there at the bar sells. It's cool, man!". This is how people came to grief in the village where I lived in the Netherlands. Many, perhaps most people who use opiods are addicts, which means that they regularly use a drug just to feel normal. They may sometimes want something out of the ordinary, and are surely on the low end of substance risk-averse scale, but usually they want their usual dose of their usual drug. With fentanyl and similar new narcotics, though, they run the risk of unexpectedly getting something much stronger than usual. Imagine drinking your next beer not know whether or not it would have the effect of a big glass of vodka, then multiply by a few orders of magnitude. This kind of random quality control would never be permitted in a market with any kind of regulation. I doubt that much of it is deliberate, it's just that fentanyl is effective in microgram doses, and drug dealers aren't good enough at measuring. Cops are now (justifiably) worried about suffering overdoses simply through skin exposure. Back in the day, this was fairly common in South East Asia. G.I's who were used to cooking up a dose were sticking a needle in their arm and dropping dead. An Air Force medic told me that quite often heroin sold in Thailand or Vietnam was much less adulterated than that sold in the U.S. and a dose that you could tolerate in the U.S. was large enough to kill you in Asia. -- Cheers, John B. |
#96
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How long should caliper brake springs last?
On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 22:39:36 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote: Many, perhaps most people who use opiods are addicts, which means that they regularly use a drug just to feel normal. Professionally I have been dealing with the opioid epidemic for damn near 20 years. It only became a recent crisis when nice middle class white folks started turning to heroin out in the suburbs. As long as the primary victims were poor and/or non-white, nobody really gave much of a crap at the policy level. Once it hit the likely voter pool, then the narrative changed. Sorry, a bit cynical these days. Saying that "most people who use opioids are addicts" is a gross generalization and is simply not true. However, these are all highly addictive drugs- from codeine to fentanyl and heroin, etc.- and starting to use them at all carries a risk of addiction. It is simply the biology of the drugs in the human body and few people are immune to the potential. If you take a single first dose of oxycodone today, there is a measurable risk that a year from now you will still be taking it (my recollection is that the risk is about 6%). Take it for a week and the risk is higher; take it for a month and the risk is higher; take if for a year and the risk of addiction is higher still. Opioids are IMHO more addictive than alcohol, perhaps a bit less addictive than nicotine (BTW, to my observation over 36 years of working in mental health, the "gateway drugs" are cigarettes, whatever's in mommy and daddy's medicine cabinet and alcohol. Roughly in that order. Usually by the time people get to trying marijuana, they are already on the substance abuse train. That said, marijuana is *not* a benign, no-harm drug even if less damaging than others) and maybe on par with meth and cocaine (especially crack cocaine). They may sometimes want something out of the ordinary, and are surely on the low end of substance risk-averse scale, but usually they want their usual dose of their usual drug. With fentanyl and similar new narcotics, though, they run the risk of unexpectedly getting something much stronger than usual. Getting fentanyl and other ultra-potent narcotics is usually by accident. Their heroin is adulerated and they have no way of knowing or controlling the dose. You are right, though, in that addicts become less risk-averse as they deal with withdrawal symptoms. Astonishing to me, I have read interviews with addicts who go towards areas where more ODs are happening because they feel it indicates a better quality product. Yikes! That is dumb as a box of rocks to me. Imagine drinking your next beer not know whether or not it would have the effect of a big glass of vodka, then multiply by a few orders of magnitude. This kind of random quality control would never be permitted in a market with any kind of regulation. Sure it is. You can buy a beer at the bar with 4% alcohol by volume or 14%. Can't tell by looking if it's on tap and with many craft beer styles the alcohol burn is masked. Most places these days list the ABV on the beer list to help prevent someone erroneously buying a pint that is the equivalent of three beers (and then having three more before driving home). There is little to no regulation about the strength of beer in many places. There is a beer in Scotland repored in the news that had something like 35% alcohol, produced because the brewer was ****ed off at the government about some regulation or other. I doubt that much of it is deliberate, it's just that fentanyl is effective in microgram doses, and drug dealers aren't good enough at measuring. Cops are now (justifiably) worried about suffering overdoses simply through skin exposure. Cops, EMTs, etc., have indeed suffered ODs from very minimal skin contact with substances or from breathing contaminated dust. Some of these narcotics are incredibly potent and life-threatening to humans. Narcan is standard equipment at all times nowadays. |
#97
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How long should caliper brake springs last?
On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 22:47:24 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote: On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 08:53:45 +0700, John B wrote: Tim McNamara wrote: You can buy "moonshine" branded products in liquor stores, packaged in canning jars and all. I've never tasted it. :-) I have :-) and "corn whiskey" as usually sold by bootleggers is not that flavorful, in fact it has, as mentioned by the supreme court, no socially redeeming qualities, but on the other hand it is cheap and, if you know your source, probably 50% or more alcohol. Well, the purpose might not be the taste experience. Knowing next to nothing about moonshine I looked around on the web this afternoon, which has resulted in my probably knowing less than nothing now. It sounds like a fair amount of moonshine is made from a sugar base rather than a grain base; when grain is used, seems like corn (maize) is the usual staple. You are correct. The most economic method of making alcohol is sugar and water, and add yeast. The reason for "corn whiskey" is that in the southern parts of the U.S., particularly in the mountains, it is probably safe to say that corn is the most common carbohydrate grown. There are a multitude of "Southern Cooking" recipes that have corn as the basic ingredient. Corn meal mush, corn dodgers, corn pone, etc. And, I suppose that having all that carbohydrate someone thought of making alcohol :-) I've got an Australian friend that makes alcohol and flavors it to make various types of drinks. Apparently this is pretty common in Australia as he tells me that you can buy flavoring to make just about any sort of distilled beverage. Frank mentioned poitin (Irish moonshine, pronounced "puh-cheen") which unsurprisingly is often made from potatos; there are commercial versions stocked at the local liquor store but I've never tried them. Other than a few selected whiskeys and occasionally aquavit (my wife's family is Danish), liquor holds little interest for me; I prefer beer or wine as a beverage. Don't like cocktails. But then single malt scotch, right out of the still, is also pretty retched stuff :-) -- Cheers, Most all the distilled alcohols are that way, until they are aged and flavored with barrel aging like the whiskeys, decoctions like gin and aquavit, etc. I have no idea what happens with vodka, if there is any aging benefit for the non-flavored versions. I have read that virtually all of the vodkas sold in the US come from one of two sources- Archer Daniels Midland and another big agrabusinessthat I can't remember offhand. They are the biggest distillers in the country and sell the stuff by the tanker load to be bottled and packaged for very profitable resale at various price points. $15 a bottle or $100 a bottle, the odds are pretty good it's the same vodka. I wouldn't doubt it. As vodka is basically a mixture of ethanol and water, perhaps with some flavoring and impurities, it would make sense to produce it in volume. I read that the U.S. had the capacity to produce 7 billion U.S. gallons of ethanol fuel annually in 2007 and likely more today. The reference is for fuel grade but it is likely that the system is little different from that used to produce beverage or laboratory grades. -- Cheers, John B. |
#98
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How long should caliper brake springs last?
On 8/9/2017 10:47 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 08:53:45 +0700, John B wrote: Tim McNamara wrote: You can buy "moonshine" branded products in liquor stores, packaged in canning jars and all. I've never tasted it. :-) I have :-) and "corn whiskey" as usually sold by bootleggers is not that flavorful, in fact it has, as mentioned by the supreme court, no socially redeeming qualities, but on the other hand it is cheap and, if you know your source, probably 50% or more alcohol. Well, the purpose might not be the taste experience. Knowing next to nothing about moonshine I looked around on the web this afternoon, which has resulted in my probably knowing less than nothing now. It sounds like a fair amount of moonshine is made from a sugar base rather than a grain base; when grain is used, seems like corn (maize) is the usual staple. Frank mentioned poitin (Irish moonshine, pronounced "puh-cheen") which unsurprisingly is often made from potatos; there are commercial versions stocked at the local liquor store but I've never tried them. Other than a few selected whiskeys and occasionally aquavit (my wife's family is Danish), liquor holds little interest for me; I prefer beer or wine as a beverage. Don't like cocktails. But then single malt scotch, right out of the still, is also pretty retched stuff :-) -- Cheers, Most all the distilled alcohols are that way, until they are aged and flavored with barrel aging like the whiskeys, decoctions like gin and aquavit, etc. I have no idea what happens with vodka, if there is any aging benefit for the non-flavored versions. I have read that virtually all of the vodkas sold in the US come from one of two sources- Archer Daniels Midland and another big agrabusinessthat I can't remember offhand. They are the biggest distillers in the country and sell the stuff by the tanker load to be bottled and packaged for very profitable resale at various price points. $15 a bottle or $100 a bottle, the odds are pretty good it's the same vodka. I have actually made corm whiskey. It's an amazingly slow and tedious[1] process with a shortbed pickup of corn yielding less than one pint[2] and there's the cost of sugar as well. Once was plenty. To make growing corn and selling alcohol a paying proposition would require either a huge capital investment or a very low value for one's labor. [1]Machinery would probably make shucking/shelling/mashing faster. [2]I make no claim of expertise or efficiency. Since the boiling point of methanol is only slightly higher than ethanol, the prudent fellow will quit while still ahead. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#99
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How long should caliper brake springs last?
On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 6:40:17 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/9/2017 7:46 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 11:15:43 -0700, Joerg wrote: Alcohol is tapped out, you can buy anything from non-alcoholic beer to hardcore high-ABV liquor. Moonshiners can't offer much in "benefits" even for alcoholics. Moonshiners offer ready availability in dry counties, which are more prevalent in the southern US and not coincidentally moonshiners are mre prevalent in the south. So there is that. Since it isn't taxed, I wonder if moonshine is cheaper than buying cheap booze at the liquor store. Given how cheap the lowest tier liquors are, that's hard to picture. Perhaps the real allure of moonshine is that it's illegal and has an outlaw image of freedom that appeals to some. I think that's true. I've had Irish friends proudly offer me "poitÃ*n" (or poteen, basically moonshine with an Oirish accent). It was obvious they enjoyed the naughtiness of it. A few weeks ago some friends and I played music for a private party. It took place in a private pavilion built on a private lake behind a big mansion. We were told to help ourselves to the food and drink, and I saw a couple wine bottles with taped-on labels that said "Not water." I thought it was wine and poured a glass, then found it was almost certainly flammable. The hosts could afford any liquor they wanted, but I think they enjoyed the naughtiness of the moonshine. Having a private lake in your backyard tends to play head games with you |
#100
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How long should caliper brake springs last?
On 2017-08-09 16:46, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 11:15:43 -0700, Joerg wrote: Alcohol is tapped out, you can buy anything from non-alcoholic beer to hardcore high-ABV liquor. Moonshiners can't offer much in "benefits" even for alcoholics. Moonshiners offer ready availability in dry counties, which are more prevalent in the southern US and not coincidentally moonshiners are mre prevalent in the south. So there is that. Since it isn't taxed, I wonder if moonshine is cheaper than buying cheap booze at the liquor store. Given how cheap the lowest tier liquors are, that's hard to picture. Price isn't much of a motivator. Gin and stuff is so cheap at the stores that there is little chance to make a decent profit. Perhaps the real allure of moonshine is that it's illegal and has an outlaw image of freedom that appeals to some. In some parts of the country it is part of the culture. That said, improperly distilled alcohol is far from safe. You can buy "moonshine" branded products in liquor stores, packaged in canning jars and all. I've never tasted it. I haven't either. I brew beer and there it's different. Yes, it costs 30-60% or so less that store-bought but that is not the motivator. Considering that each 5-gallon batch takes 5-6h makes it a financial non-starter. What motivated brewers like me is that we can achieve a much better quality than most commercial breweries. Our stuff tastes as fresh as from tap even if it comes out of a bottle. You can't buy that except in growlers and then you'll have to drink the same beer all evening becauseit won't keep to the next day. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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