How long should caliper brake springs last?

On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 18:46:28 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 11:15:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Alcohol is tapped out, you can buy anything from non-alcoholic beer to
hardcore high-ABV liquor. Moonshiners can't offer much in "benefits"
even for alcoholics.

Moonshiners offer ready availability in dry counties, which are more
prevalent in the southern US and not coincidentally moonshiners are mre
prevalent in the south. So there is that. Since it isn't taxed, I
wonder if moonshine is cheaper than buying cheap booze at the liquor
store. Given how cheap the lowest tier liquors are, that's hard to
picture.

Perhaps the real allure of moonshine is that it's illegal and has an
outlaw image of freedom that appeals to some. In some parts of the
country it is part of the culture. That said, improperly distilled
alcohol is far from safe.

You can buy "moonshine" branded products in liquor stores, packaged in
canning jars and all. I've never tasted it.

:-) I have :-) and "corn whiskey" as usually sold by bootleggers is
not that flavorful, in fact it has, as mentioned by the supreme court,
no socially redeeming qualities, but on the other hand it is cheap
and, if you know your source, probably 50% or more alcohol.

But then single malt scotch, right out of the still, is also pretty
retched stuff :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. writes:

On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 14:03:42 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Joerg writes:

On 2017-08-06 19:28, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:24:21 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 9:53:01 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

[...]

I think legalization would have to be done very carefully, though, as
part of a total package. And I think an essential part of the package
should be to stop glamorizing use of pot (let alone other drugs) as
fashionable and funny. It bothers me when comedians, films, songs, etc.
glorify chemical-induced stupidity.

As Joerg pointed out - legalize one drug and you might as well
legalize them all because people will ALWAYS try the newer stronger
street drugs.

Alcohol is a drug -- more dangerous than cannabis. Alcohol destroys
more lives than all the illegal drugs put
together. http://www.drugwarfacts.org/chapter/causes_of_death Might as
well legalize heroin now.

If heroin had been legalized it is unlikely that fentanyl would be the
problem that it is. It certainly would not be sold, randomly, as heroin.


The drug dealing criminals would invent the next
"upgrade". Guaranteed. Those guys don't just give up their revenue
stream, roll over and play dead. It'll be a constant ratcheting up in
drug potency or, for the addicts, a death spiral.

But who would buy? There is a small market for dodgy, adulterated
alchohol in the US at this time, but for some reason it's not nearly
as big as it was back during Prohibition.


Long after prohibition was abolished there was still a booming market
for illegal, i.e., non tax paid, alcohol. In fact I was introduced to
a "high school friend" of a fellow I worked with who was a bootlegger.
He still made a little "corn liquor" as some people still drank it but
he said that the bulk of his output was straight alcohol which was
sold to "people from up north" who, he assumed, used to make fake
whiskey.

Similar, but different country: http://tinyurl.com/ycyx7sc3

It's true that organized criminals don't just give up, which is why we
still have criminal organizations that date from that era. However,
except for state to state tax arbitrage (smuggling) they don't
much deal in alcohol.

Actually cigarette smuggling appears to be alive and well
http://tinyurl.com/y7dl2t6h

I thought that was what I said. Cigarette smuggling is a big business,
not to mention the occasional hijack of an entire semi trucks full of butts.
--

Joerg writes:

On 2017-08-09 11:03, Radey Shouman wrote:
Joerg writes:

On 2017-08-06 19:28, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:24:21 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 9:53:01 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

[...]

I think legalization would have to be done very carefully, though, as
part of a total package. And I think an essential part of the package
should be to stop glamorizing use of pot (let alone other drugs) as
fashionable and funny. It bothers me when comedians, films, songs, etc.
glorify chemical-induced stupidity.

As Joerg pointed out - legalize one drug and you might as well
legalize them all because people will ALWAYS try the newer stronger
street drugs.

Alcohol is a drug -- more dangerous than cannabis. Alcohol destroys
more lives than all the illegal drugs put
together. http://www.drugwarfacts.org/chapter/causes_of_death Might as
well legalize heroin now.

If heroin had been legalized it is unlikely that fentanyl would be the
problem that it is. It certainly would not be sold, randomly, as heroin.


The drug dealing criminals would invent the next
"upgrade". Guaranteed. Those guys don't just give up their revenue
stream, roll over and play dead. It'll be a constant ratcheting up in
drug potency or, for the addicts, a death spiral.

But who would buy? ...


People who fall for the peer pressure thing. "You've got to try this
other stuff that the guy over there at the bar sells. It's cool,
man!". This is how people came to grief in the village where I lived
in the Netherlands.

Many, perhaps most people who use opiods are addicts, which means that
they regularly use a drug just to feel normal. They may sometimes want
something out of the ordinary, and are surely on the low end of
substance risk-averse scale, but usually they want their usual dose of
their usual drug. With fentanyl and similar new narcotics, though, they
run the risk of unexpectedly getting something much stronger than usual.

Imagine drinking your next beer not know whether or not it would have
the effect of a big glass of vodka, then multiply by a few orders of
magnitude. This kind of random quality control would never be permitted
in a market with any kind of regulation. I doubt that much of it is
deliberate, it's just that fentanyl is effective in microgram doses, and
drug dealers aren't good enough at measuring. Cops are now
(justifiably) worried about suffering overdoses simply through skin
exposure.

It's not the users that demanded higher potency narcotics, it's simple
economics. For big drug smugglers the cost at the source is literally
negligible, the only important thing is the cost of shipping a dose.

... There is a small market for dodgy, adulterated
alchohol in the US at this time, but for some reason it's not nearly
as big as it was back during Prohibition.

It's true that organized criminals don't just give up, which is why we
still have criminal organizations that date from that era. However,
except for state to state tax arbitrage (smuggling) they don't
much deal in alcohol.


Alcohol is tapped out, you can buy anything from non-alcoholic beer to
hardcore high-ABV liquor. Moonshiners can't offer much in "benefits"
even for alcoholics. That is very different in the world of
drugs. They have stuff that can turn people into complete addicts in
just a few sessions.

A few years ago there was a fashion for heavily advertised high-caffeine
alcoholic drinks. These were alleged to be worse for (particularly
young) drinkers than the usual run of drinks, and were banned. They
disappeared from the market.

--

On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 08:53:45 +0700, John B wrote:
Tim McNamara wrote:

You can buy "moonshine" branded products in liquor stores, packaged in
canning jars and all. I've never tasted it.

:-) I have :-) and "corn whiskey" as usually sold by bootleggers is
not that flavorful, in fact it has, as mentioned by the supreme court,
no socially redeeming qualities, but on the other hand it is cheap
and, if you know your source, probably 50% or more alcohol.

Well, the purpose might not be the taste experience. Knowing next to
nothing about moonshine I looked around on the web this afternoon, which
has resulted in my probably knowing less than nothing now. It sounds
like a fair amount of moonshine is made from a sugar base rather than a
grain base; when grain is used, seems like corn (maize) is the usual
staple. Frank mentioned poitin (Irish moonshine, pronounced
"puh-cheen") which unsurprisingly is often made from potatos; there are
commercial versions stocked at the local liquor store but I've never
tried them. Other than a few selected whiskeys and occasionally aquavit
(my wife's family is Danish), liquor holds little interest for me; I
prefer beer or wine as a beverage. Don't like cocktails.

But then single malt scotch, right out of the still, is also pretty
retched stuff :-) -- Cheers,

Most all the distilled alcohols are that way, until they are aged and
flavored with barrel aging like the whiskeys, decoctions like gin and
aquavit, etc. I have no idea what happens with vodka, if there is any
aging benefit for the non-flavored versions. I have read that virtually
all of the vodkas sold in the US come from one of two sources- Archer
Daniels Midland and another big agrabusinessthat I can't remember
offhand. They are the biggest distillers in the country and sell the
stuff by the tanker load to be bottled and packaged for very profitable
resale at various price points. $15 a bottle or $100 a bottle, the odds
are pretty good it's the same vodka.

On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 22:39:36 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Joerg writes:

On 2017-08-09 11:03, Radey Shouman wrote:
Joerg writes:

On 2017-08-06 19:28, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:24:21 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 9:53:01 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

[...]

I think legalization would have to be done very carefully, though, as
part of a total package. And I think an essential part of the package
should be to stop glamorizing use of pot (let alone other drugs) as
fashionable and funny. It bothers me when comedians, films, songs, etc.
glorify chemical-induced stupidity.

As Joerg pointed out - legalize one drug and you might as well
legalize them all because people will ALWAYS try the newer stronger
street drugs.

Alcohol is a drug -- more dangerous than cannabis. Alcohol destroys
more lives than all the illegal drugs put
together. http://www.drugwarfacts.org/chapter/causes_of_death Might as
well legalize heroin now.

If heroin had been legalized it is unlikely that fentanyl would be the
problem that it is. It certainly would not be sold, randomly, as heroin.


The drug dealing criminals would invent the next
"upgrade". Guaranteed. Those guys don't just give up their revenue
stream, roll over and play dead. It'll be a constant ratcheting up in
drug potency or, for the addicts, a death spiral.

But who would buy? ...


People who fall for the peer pressure thing. "You've got to try this
other stuff that the guy over there at the bar sells. It's cool,
man!". This is how people came to grief in the village where I lived
in the Netherlands.

Many, perhaps most people who use opiods are addicts, which means that
they regularly use a drug just to feel normal. They may sometimes want
something out of the ordinary, and are surely on the low end of
substance risk-averse scale, but usually they want their usual dose of
their usual drug. With fentanyl and similar new narcotics, though, they
run the risk of unexpectedly getting something much stronger than usual.

Imagine drinking your next beer not know whether or not it would have
the effect of a big glass of vodka, then multiply by a few orders of
magnitude. This kind of random quality control would never be permitted
in a market with any kind of regulation. I doubt that much of it is
deliberate, it's just that fentanyl is effective in microgram doses, and
drug dealers aren't good enough at measuring. Cops are now
(justifiably) worried about suffering overdoses simply through skin
exposure.


Back in the day, this was fairly common in South East Asia. G.I's who
were used to cooking up a dose were sticking a needle in their arm and
dropping dead. An Air Force medic told me that quite often heroin sold
in Thailand or Vietnam was much less adulterated than that sold in the
U.S. and a dose that you could tolerate in the U.S. was large enough
to kill you in Asia.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 22:39:36 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Many, perhaps most people who use opiods are addicts, which means that
they regularly use a drug just to feel normal.

Professionally I have been dealing with the opioid epidemic for damn
near 20 years. It only became a recent crisis when nice middle class
white folks started turning to heroin out in the suburbs. As long as
the primary victims were poor and/or non-white, nobody really gave much
of a crap at the policy level. Once it hit the likely voter pool, then
the narrative changed.

Sorry, a bit cynical these days.

Saying that "most people who use opioids are addicts" is a gross
generalization and is simply not true. However, these are all highly
addictive drugs- from codeine to fentanyl and heroin, etc.- and starting
to use them at all carries a risk of addiction. It is simply the
biology of the drugs in the human body and few people are immune to the
potential. If you take a single first dose of oxycodone today, there is
a measurable risk that a year from now you will still be taking it (my
recollection is that the risk is about 6%). Take it for a week and the
risk is higher; take it for a month and the risk is higher; take if for
a year and the risk of addiction is higher still.

Opioids are IMHO more addictive than alcohol, perhaps a bit less
addictive than nicotine (BTW, to my observation over 36 years of working
in mental health, the "gateway drugs" are cigarettes, whatever's in
mommy and daddy's medicine cabinet and alcohol. Roughly in that order.
Usually by the time people get to trying marijuana, they are already on
the substance abuse train. That said, marijuana is *not* a benign,
no-harm drug even if less damaging than others) and maybe on par with
meth and cocaine (especially crack cocaine).

They may sometimes want something out of the ordinary, and are surely
on the low end of substance risk-averse scale, but usually they want
their usual dose of their usual drug. With fentanyl and similar new
narcotics, though, they run the risk of unexpectedly getting something
much stronger than usual.

Getting fentanyl and other ultra-potent narcotics is usually by
accident. Their heroin is adulerated and they have no way of knowing or
controlling the dose. You are right, though, in that addicts become
less risk-averse as they deal with withdrawal symptoms. Astonishing to
me, I have read interviews with addicts who go towards areas where more
ODs are happening because they feel it indicates a better quality
product. Yikes! That is dumb as a box of rocks to me.

Imagine drinking your next beer not know whether or not it would have
the effect of a big glass of vodka, then multiply by a few orders of
magnitude. This kind of random quality control would never be
permitted in a market with any kind of regulation.

Sure it is. You can buy a beer at the bar with 4% alcohol by volume or
14%. Can't tell by looking if it's on tap and with many craft beer
styles the alcohol burn is masked. Most places these days list the ABV
on the beer list to help prevent someone erroneously buying a pint that
is the equivalent of three beers (and then having three more before
driving home). There is little to no regulation about the strength of
beer in many places. There is a beer in Scotland repored in the news
that had something like 35% alcohol, produced because the brewer was
****ed off at the government about some regulation or other.

I doubt that much of it is deliberate, it's just that fentanyl is
effective in microgram doses, and drug dealers aren't good enough at
measuring. Cops are now (justifiably) worried about suffering
overdoses simply through skin exposure.

Cops, EMTs, etc., have indeed suffered ODs from very minimal skin
contact with substances or from breathing contaminated dust. Some of
these narcotics are incredibly potent and life-threatening to humans.
Narcan is standard equipment at all times nowadays.

On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 22:47:24 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 08:53:45 +0700, John B wrote:
Tim McNamara wrote:

You can buy "moonshine" branded products in liquor stores, packaged in
canning jars and all. I've never tasted it.

:-) I have :-) and "corn whiskey" as usually sold by bootleggers is
not that flavorful, in fact it has, as mentioned by the supreme court,
no socially redeeming qualities, but on the other hand it is cheap
and, if you know your source, probably 50% or more alcohol.

Well, the purpose might not be the taste experience. Knowing next to
nothing about moonshine I looked around on the web this afternoon, which
has resulted in my probably knowing less than nothing now. It sounds
like a fair amount of moonshine is made from a sugar base rather than a
grain base; when grain is used, seems like corn (maize) is the usual
staple.

You are correct. The most economic method of making alcohol is sugar
and water, and add yeast. The reason for "corn whiskey" is that in the
southern parts of the U.S., particularly in the mountains, it is
probably safe to say that corn is the most common carbohydrate grown.
There are a multitude of "Southern Cooking" recipes that have corn as
the basic ingredient. Corn meal mush, corn dodgers, corn pone, etc.
And, I suppose that having all that carbohydrate someone thought of
making alcohol :-)

I've got an Australian friend that makes alcohol and flavors it to
make various types of drinks. Apparently this is pretty common in
Australia as he tells me that you can buy flavoring to make just about
any sort of distilled beverage.

Frank mentioned poitin (Irish moonshine, pronounced
"puh-cheen") which unsurprisingly is often made from potatos; there are
commercial versions stocked at the local liquor store but I've never
tried them. Other than a few selected whiskeys and occasionally aquavit
(my wife's family is Danish), liquor holds little interest for me; I
prefer beer or wine as a beverage. Don't like cocktails.

But then single malt scotch, right out of the still, is also pretty
retched stuff :-) -- Cheers,

Most all the distilled alcohols are that way, until they are aged and
flavored with barrel aging like the whiskeys, decoctions like gin and
aquavit, etc. I have no idea what happens with vodka, if there is any
aging benefit for the non-flavored versions. I have read that virtually
all of the vodkas sold in the US come from one of two sources- Archer
Daniels Midland and another big agrabusinessthat I can't remember
offhand. They are the biggest distillers in the country and sell the
stuff by the tanker load to be bottled and packaged for very profitable
resale at various price points. $15 a bottle or $100 a bottle, the odds
are pretty good it's the same vodka.

I wouldn't doubt it. As vodka is basically a mixture of ethanol and
water, perhaps with some flavoring and impurities, it would make sense
to produce it in volume. I read that the U.S. had the capacity to
produce 7 billion U.S. gallons of ethanol fuel annually in 2007 and
likely more today. The reference is for fuel grade but it is likely
that the system is little different from that used to produce beverage
or laboratory grades.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 8/9/2017 10:47 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 08:53:45 +0700, John B wrote:
Tim McNamara wrote:

You can buy "moonshine" branded products in liquor stores, packaged in
canning jars and all. I've never tasted it.

:-) I have :-) and "corn whiskey" as usually sold by bootleggers is
not that flavorful, in fact it has, as mentioned by the supreme court,
no socially redeeming qualities, but on the other hand it is cheap
and, if you know your source, probably 50% or more alcohol.

Well, the purpose might not be the taste experience. Knowing next to
nothing about moonshine I looked around on the web this afternoon, which
has resulted in my probably knowing less than nothing now. It sounds
like a fair amount of moonshine is made from a sugar base rather than a
grain base; when grain is used, seems like corn (maize) is the usual
staple. Frank mentioned poitin (Irish moonshine, pronounced
"puh-cheen") which unsurprisingly is often made from potatos; there are
commercial versions stocked at the local liquor store but I've never
tried them. Other than a few selected whiskeys and occasionally aquavit
(my wife's family is Danish), liquor holds little interest for me; I
prefer beer or wine as a beverage. Don't like cocktails.

But then single malt scotch, right out of the still, is also pretty
retched stuff :-) -- Cheers,

Most all the distilled alcohols are that way, until they are aged and
flavored with barrel aging like the whiskeys, decoctions like gin and
aquavit, etc. I have no idea what happens with vodka, if there is any
aging benefit for the non-flavored versions. I have read that virtually
all of the vodkas sold in the US come from one of two sources- Archer
Daniels Midland and another big agrabusinessthat I can't remember
offhand. They are the biggest distillers in the country and sell the
stuff by the tanker load to be bottled and packaged for very profitable
resale at various price points. $15 a bottle or $100 a bottle, the odds
are pretty good it's the same vodka.


I have actually made corm whiskey. It's an amazingly slow
and tedious[1] process with a shortbed pickup of corn
yielding less than one pint[2] and there's the cost of sugar
as well. Once was plenty.

To make growing corn and selling alcohol a paying
proposition would require either a huge capital investment
or a very low value for one's labor.

[1]Machinery would probably make shucking/shelling/mashing
faster.
[2]I make no claim of expertise or efficiency. Since the
boiling point of methanol is only slightly higher than
ethanol, the prudent fellow will quit while still ahead.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 6:40:17 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/9/2017 7:46 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 11:15:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Alcohol is tapped out, you can buy anything from non-alcoholic beer to
hardcore high-ABV liquor. Moonshiners can't offer much in "benefits"
even for alcoholics.

Moonshiners offer ready availability in dry counties, which are more
prevalent in the southern US and not coincidentally moonshiners are mre
prevalent in the south. So there is that. Since it isn't taxed, I
wonder if moonshine is cheaper than buying cheap booze at the liquor
store. Given how cheap the lowest tier liquors are, that's hard to
picture.

Perhaps the real allure of moonshine is that it's illegal and has an
outlaw image of freedom that appeals to some.

I think that's true. I've had Irish friends proudly offer me "poitÃ*n"
(or poteen, basically moonshine with an Oirish accent). It was obvious
they enjoyed the naughtiness of it.

A few weeks ago some friends and I played music for a private party. It
took place in a private pavilion built on a private lake behind a big
mansion. We were told to help ourselves to the food and drink, and I saw
a couple wine bottles with taped-on labels that said "Not water." I
thought it was wine and poured a glass, then found it was almost
certainly flammable.

The hosts could afford any liquor they wanted, but I think they enjoyed
the naughtiness of the moonshine.

Having a private lake in your backyard tends to play head games with you

On 2017-08-09 16:46, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 11:15:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Alcohol is tapped out, you can buy anything from non-alcoholic beer to
hardcore high-ABV liquor. Moonshiners can't offer much in "benefits"
even for alcoholics.

Moonshiners offer ready availability in dry counties, which are more
prevalent in the southern US and not coincidentally moonshiners are mre
prevalent in the south. So there is that. Since it isn't taxed, I
wonder if moonshine is cheaper than buying cheap booze at the liquor
store. Given how cheap the lowest tier liquors are, that's hard to
picture.


Price isn't much of a motivator. Gin and stuff is so cheap at the stores
that there is little chance to make a decent profit.


Perhaps the real allure of moonshine is that it's illegal and has an
outlaw image of freedom that appeals to some. In some parts of the
country it is part of the culture. That said, improperly distilled
alcohol is far from safe.

You can buy "moonshine" branded products in liquor stores, packaged in
canning jars and all. I've never tasted it.


I haven't either. I brew beer and there it's different. Yes, it costs
30-60% or so less that store-bought but that is not the motivator.
Considering that each 5-gallon batch takes 5-6h makes it a financial
non-starter. What motivated brewers like me is that we can achieve a
much better quality than most commercial breweries. Our stuff tastes as
fresh as from tap even if it comes out of a bottle. You can't buy that
except in growlers and then you'll have to drink the same beer all
evening becauseit won't keep to the next day.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/