degrees of screw stainless steel

wrote in message
...
On Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 7:46:10 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/18/2017 12:13 AM, John B. Alocomb wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 21:11:51 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 6/15/2017 4:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"Doug Landau" wrote in message
...

Just like in North America where there's the myth that
the Amerindians at the time of their discovery by
Europeans were a peaceful bunch living a bountiful life
whereas the facts were that the various tribes were
engaged in ruthless inter-tribal wars often to
annihilation of a tribe for the best
hunting/farming/gathering grounds. The other fact was
that the natives were often barely living at a subsitance
level and the least little upset in game numbers or
climate could mean starvation and the end of that tribal
group.

Actually, what you paint as a simple picture is not so
simple. Conditions varied greatly between locales and
times, and as artifacts evidence, in some places in some
time periods life was easier than in others. Similarly,
ruthless inter-tribal wars existed, and peaceful
inter-tribal relations existed, and neither were uncommon.

As its been described to me; there were a few particularly
nasty tribes, but on the whole the settlers were greeted by
friendly helpful natives - until they realised it was an
invasion........


Great name for a band; Queen Boudicca & the Savages.

Didn't she lead an army of Pagans against the Romans? - WTF is that to
do
with native Americans.

Army of pagans? Weren't the Romans pagan? After all it was ~60 AD and
I don't think that the Vatican had been built yet :-)


--

Cheers,.

John B.


In Latin of the time, pagani were 'country folk',
'bumpkins', so it's apt.

'Savages' was probably overwrought.

I get a real laugh at our discussion group children who are unaware that
the way the world worked for over 200,000 years was to conquer, confiscate
and murder. But according to them the world should have been difference.
We should have allowed ourselves to be conquered and murdered and all of
our possessions stolen.

The North American Indian tribes came from the Siberia area of Asia across
the ice bridge in the last ice age and down into North America. Where they
conquered and murdered the occupants driving them down into Mexico.

That was the prevailing theory during the cold war.

someone's just popped up with the notion that they originated in Syria.

"Duane" wrote in message
...
AMuzi wrote:
On 6/18/2017 12:13 AM, John B. Alocomb wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 21:11:51 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 6/15/2017 4:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"Doug Landau" wrote in message
...

Just like in North America where there's the myth that
the Amerindians at the time of their discovery by
Europeans were a peaceful bunch living a bountiful life
whereas the facts were that the various tribes were
engaged in ruthless inter-tribal wars often to
annihilation of a tribe for the best
hunting/farming/gathering grounds. The other fact was
that the natives were often barely living at a subsitance
level and the least little upset in game numbers or
climate could mean starvation and the end of that tribal
group.

Actually, what you paint as a simple picture is not so
simple. Conditions varied greatly between locales and
times, and as artifacts evidence, in some places in some
time periods life was easier than in others. Similarly,
ruthless inter-tribal wars existed, and peaceful
inter-tribal relations existed, and neither were uncommon.

As its been described to me; there were a few particularly
nasty tribes, but on the whole the settlers were greeted by
friendly helpful natives - until they realised it was an
invasion........


Great name for a band; Queen Boudicca & the Savages.

Didn't she lead an army of Pagans against the Romans? - WTF is that to
do
with native Americans.

Army of pagans? Weren't the Romans pagan? After all it was ~60 AD and
I don't think that the Vatican had been built yet :-)


--

Cheers,.

John B.


In Latin of the time, pagani were 'country folk',
'bumpkins', so it's apt.

'Savages' was probably overwrought.


pa·gan
ˈp�ɡən/
noun
1.
a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world
religions.
synonyms: heathen, infidel, idolater, idolatress; archaicpaynim
"pagans worshiped the sun"

Pagans were polytheist - they worshipped the sun, the moon and various other
things.

On Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 1:03:30 PM UTC-7, Ian Field wrote:
"John B. Alocomb" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 21:11:51 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 6/15/2017 4:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"Doug Landau" wrote in message
...

Just like in North America where there's the myth that
the Amerindians at the time of their discovery by
Europeans were a peaceful bunch living a bountiful life
whereas the facts were that the various tribes were
engaged in ruthless inter-tribal wars often to
annihilation of a tribe for the best
hunting/farming/gathering grounds. The other fact was
that the natives were often barely living at a subsitance
level and the least little upset in game numbers or
climate could mean starvation and the end of that tribal
group.

Actually, what you paint as a simple picture is not so
simple. Conditions varied greatly between locales and
times, and as artifacts evidence, in some places in some
time periods life was easier than in others. Similarly,
ruthless inter-tribal wars existed, and peaceful
inter-tribal relations existed, and neither were uncommon.

As its been described to me; there were a few particularly
nasty tribes, but on the whole the settlers were greeted by
friendly helpful natives - until they realised it was an
invasion........


Great name for a band; Queen Boudicca & the Savages.

Didn't she lead an army of Pagans against the Romans? - WTF is that to do
with native Americans.

Army of pagans? Weren't the Romans pagan? After all it was ~60 AD and
I don't think that the Vatican had been built yet :-)

Rome was a polytheistic society, it had that much in common with Pagan
beliefs.

The word; "Pagan" has a meaning that you can look up because I can't be
bothered - it has more to do with where they live than what they believe.

The Romans started off trying to wipe out the Christians as a perceived
threat to their power, it turned out to be a virus bomb - the Roman empire
was well and truly infected by the time they invaded Britain.

I see you really do know so little about religion that you shouldn't talk about it.

Romans didn't start out persecuting Christians no more than Jews. In fact the only edict from the Emperor was some time around 300 AD and only lasted for 18 months.

The other persecutions of Christians was on an ad hoc basis and most of the time they were ignored including the preaching of the Saints.

We all get it - you don't like religion because you don't understand it.

On Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 1:10:29 PM UTC-7, Ian Field wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 7:46:10 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/18/2017 12:13 AM, John B. Alocomb wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 21:11:51 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 6/15/2017 4:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"Doug Landau" wrote in message
...

Just like in North America where there's the myth that
the Amerindians at the time of their discovery by
Europeans were a peaceful bunch living a bountiful life
whereas the facts were that the various tribes were
engaged in ruthless inter-tribal wars often to
annihilation of a tribe for the best
hunting/farming/gathering grounds. The other fact was
that the natives were often barely living at a subsitance
level and the least little upset in game numbers or
climate could mean starvation and the end of that tribal
group.

Actually, what you paint as a simple picture is not so
simple. Conditions varied greatly between locales and
times, and as artifacts evidence, in some places in some
time periods life was easier than in others. Similarly,
ruthless inter-tribal wars existed, and peaceful
inter-tribal relations existed, and neither were uncommon.

As its been described to me; there were a few particularly
nasty tribes, but on the whole the settlers were greeted by
friendly helpful natives - until they realised it was an
invasion........


Great name for a band; Queen Boudicca & the Savages.

Didn't she lead an army of Pagans against the Romans? - WTF is that to
do
with native Americans.

Army of pagans? Weren't the Romans pagan? After all it was ~60 AD and
I don't think that the Vatican had been built yet :-)


--

Cheers,.

John B.


In Latin of the time, pagani were 'country folk',
'bumpkins', so it's apt.

'Savages' was probably overwrought.

I get a real laugh at our discussion group children who are unaware that
the way the world worked for over 200,000 years was to conquer, confiscate
and murder. But according to them the world should have been difference.
We should have allowed ourselves to be conquered and murdered and all of
our possessions stolen.

The North American Indian tribes came from the Siberia area of Asia across
the ice bridge in the last ice age and down into North America. Where they
conquered and murdered the occupants driving them down into Mexico.

That was the prevailing theory during the cold war.

someone's just popped up with the notion that they originated in Syria.

Theory? Do you know what DNA analysis is?

On Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 1:12:47 PM UTC-7, Ian Field wrote:
"Duane" wrote in message
....
AMuzi wrote:
On 6/18/2017 12:13 AM, John B. Alocomb wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 21:11:51 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 6/15/2017 4:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"Doug Landau" wrote in message
...

Just like in North America where there's the myth that
the Amerindians at the time of their discovery by
Europeans were a peaceful bunch living a bountiful life
whereas the facts were that the various tribes were
engaged in ruthless inter-tribal wars often to
annihilation of a tribe for the best
hunting/farming/gathering grounds. The other fact was
that the natives were often barely living at a subsitance
level and the least little upset in game numbers or
climate could mean starvation and the end of that tribal
group.

Actually, what you paint as a simple picture is not so
simple. Conditions varied greatly between locales and
times, and as artifacts evidence, in some places in some
time periods life was easier than in others. Similarly,
ruthless inter-tribal wars existed, and peaceful
inter-tribal relations existed, and neither were uncommon.

As its been described to me; there were a few particularly
nasty tribes, but on the whole the settlers were greeted by
friendly helpful natives - until they realised it was an
invasion........


Great name for a band; Queen Boudicca & the Savages.

Didn't she lead an army of Pagans against the Romans? - WTF is that to
do
with native Americans.

Army of pagans? Weren't the Romans pagan? After all it was ~60 AD and
I don't think that the Vatican had been built yet :-)


--

Cheers,.

John B.


In Latin of the time, pagani were 'country folk',
'bumpkins', so it's apt.

'Savages' was probably overwrought.


pa·gan
ˈp�ɡən/
noun
1.
a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world
religions.
synonyms: heathen, infidel, idolater, idolatress; archaicpaynim
"pagans worshiped the sun"

Pagans were polytheist - they worshipped the sun, the moon and various other
things.

Mostly whatever was handy at the time. My older brother believes that the CIA blew up Trade Tower #7. Seems like they knew that at that time and place the Arabs were going to attack the USA and they thought that they'd get in their shots while it was good. This is a nutcake religion. He also thinks that there were no Jews killed by the Russians. He also hates blacks - I think that because when we were kids the black kids wouldn't have anything to do with a bully. And they were bigger and stronger. He actually PAYS for access to websites that spout this sort of crap. That's religion. Meanwhile he doesn't believe in Christianity.

They have pictures of the Nazi death camps and the words of the people that managed to survive. I believe them. They have pictures of the aircraft striking the trade towers. I think that sufficient evidence to believe. They have to words of the people in those trade towers. Let's consider them liars because some worthless POS that hates the entire world around him says so.

I was helped along many stages of my life by black men (and women) and would not have accomplished what I did without them and their influence. I appreciate it and am not going to allow criminals of any color to distort that.

I don't believe that JFK was killed by a secret society. I don't believe that Vietnam was Kennedy trying to save French rubber plantations. There are any number of things I don't believe because I am smart enough to know the world around me.

But the Earth, Moon and Stars cannot be answered by science.

On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 21:03:24 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B. Alocomb" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 21:11:51 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 6/15/2017 4:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"Doug Landau" wrote in message
...

Just like in North America where there's the myth that
the Amerindians at the time of their discovery by
Europeans were a peaceful bunch living a bountiful life
whereas the facts were that the various tribes were
engaged in ruthless inter-tribal wars often to
annihilation of a tribe for the best
hunting/farming/gathering grounds. The other fact was
that the natives were often barely living at a subsitance
level and the least little upset in game numbers or
climate could mean starvation and the end of that tribal
group.

Actually, what you paint as a simple picture is not so
simple. Conditions varied greatly between locales and
times, and as artifacts evidence, in some places in some
time periods life was easier than in others. Similarly,
ruthless inter-tribal wars existed, and peaceful
inter-tribal relations existed, and neither were uncommon.

As its been described to me; there were a few particularly
nasty tribes, but on the whole the settlers were greeted by
friendly helpful natives - until they realised it was an
invasion........


Great name for a band; Queen Boudicca & the Savages.

Didn't she lead an army of Pagans against the Romans? - WTF is that to do
with native Americans.

Army of pagans? Weren't the Romans pagan? After all it was ~60 AD and
I don't think that the Vatican had been built yet :-)

Rome was a polytheistic society, it had that much in common with Pagan
beliefs.

The word; "Pagan" has a meaning that you can look up because I can't be
bothered - it has more to do with where they live than what they believe.

The first and I assume major definition of "Pagan: is: "a person who
does not acknowledge your god". It can also be applied to anyone that
doesn't admit to the God of Abraham.

The Romans started off trying to wipe out the Christians as a perceived
threat to their power, it turned out to be a virus bomb - the Roman empire
was well and truly infected by the time they invaded Britain.

The usual date for Roman invasion of England (ignoring Julius Caesar's
aborted visit) was in AD 43. The big growth of Christianity wasn't
until about 250 years later. Roughly 10 generations later, life
expectancy in those says was ~25 years.
--

Cheers,.

John B.

On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 21:12:43 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"Duane" wrote in message
...
AMuzi wrote:
On 6/18/2017 12:13 AM, John B. Alocomb wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 21:11:51 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 6/15/2017 4:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"Doug Landau" wrote in message
...

Just like in North America where there's the myth that
the Amerindians at the time of their discovery by
Europeans were a peaceful bunch living a bountiful life
whereas the facts were that the various tribes were
engaged in ruthless inter-tribal wars often to
annihilation of a tribe for the best
hunting/farming/gathering grounds. The other fact was
that the natives were often barely living at a subsitance
level and the least little upset in game numbers or
climate could mean starvation and the end of that tribal
group.

Actually, what you paint as a simple picture is not so
simple. Conditions varied greatly between locales and
times, and as artifacts evidence, in some places in some
time periods life was easier than in others. Similarly,
ruthless inter-tribal wars existed, and peaceful
inter-tribal relations existed, and neither were uncommon.

As its been described to me; there were a few particularly
nasty tribes, but on the whole the settlers were greeted by
friendly helpful natives - until they realised it was an
invasion........


Great name for a band; Queen Boudicca & the Savages.

Didn't she lead an army of Pagans against the Romans? - WTF is that to
do
with native Americans.

Army of pagans? Weren't the Romans pagan? After all it was ~60 AD and
I don't think that the Vatican had been built yet :-)


--

Cheers,.

John B.


In Latin of the time, pagani were 'country folk',
'bumpkins', so it's apt.

'Savages' was probably overwrought.


pa·gan
?p???n/
noun
1.
a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world
religions.
synonyms: heathen, infidel, idolater, idolatress; archaicpaynim
"pagans worshiped the sun"

Pagans were polytheist - they worshipped the sun, the moon and various other
things.

You probably ought to look the term up as according to my book it
means:

pagan ~ noun
1. a person who does not acknowledge your god
2. a person who follows a polytheistic or pre-Christian religion (not
a Christian or Muslim or Jew)
3. someone motivated by desires for sensual pleasures
pagan ~ adj
1. not acknowledging the God of Christianity and Judaism and Islam
--

Cheers,.

John B.

On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 13:21:09 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 1:03:30 PM UTC-7, Ian Field wrote:
"John B. Alocomb" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 21:11:51 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 6/15/2017 4:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"Doug Landau" wrote in message
...

Just like in North America where there's the myth that
the Amerindians at the time of their discovery by
Europeans were a peaceful bunch living a bountiful life
whereas the facts were that the various tribes were
engaged in ruthless inter-tribal wars often to
annihilation of a tribe for the best
hunting/farming/gathering grounds. The other fact was
that the natives were often barely living at a subsitance
level and the least little upset in game numbers or
climate could mean starvation and the end of that tribal
group.

Actually, what you paint as a simple picture is not so
simple. Conditions varied greatly between locales and
times, and as artifacts evidence, in some places in some
time periods life was easier than in others. Similarly,
ruthless inter-tribal wars existed, and peaceful
inter-tribal relations existed, and neither were uncommon.

As its been described to me; there were a few particularly
nasty tribes, but on the whole the settlers were greeted by
friendly helpful natives - until they realised it was an
invasion........


Great name for a band; Queen Boudicca & the Savages.

Didn't she lead an army of Pagans against the Romans? - WTF is that to do
with native Americans.

Army of pagans? Weren't the Romans pagan? After all it was ~60 AD and
I don't think that the Vatican had been built yet :-)

Rome was a polytheistic society, it had that much in common with Pagan
beliefs.

The word; "Pagan" has a meaning that you can look up because I can't be
bothered - it has more to do with where they live than what they believe.

The Romans started off trying to wipe out the Christians as a perceived
threat to their power, it turned out to be a virus bomb - the Roman empire
was well and truly infected by the time they invaded Britain.

I see you really do know so little about religion that you shouldn't talk about it.

Romans didn't start out persecuting Christians no more than Jews. In fact the only edict from the Emperor was some time around 300 AD and only lasted for 18 months.

The other persecutions of Christians was on an ad hoc basis and most of the time they were ignored including the preaching of the Saints.

We all get it - you don't like religion because you don't understand it.

On of the problems with studying the early Christian religion was that
later adherents re-wrote history. There is for example, an earlier
"church" that did not adhere to Paul's version. There were a number of
early "books" not included in the present "Bible", there is even some
thought that Jesus may have been mentioned in the dead sea scrolls.
--

Cheers,.

John B.

On Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 6:47:51 PM UTC-7, John B. Alocomb wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 13:21:09 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 1:03:30 PM UTC-7, Ian Field wrote:
"John B. Alocomb" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 21:11:51 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 6/15/2017 4:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"Doug Landau" wrote in message
...

Just like in North America where there's the myth that
the Amerindians at the time of their discovery by
Europeans were a peaceful bunch living a bountiful life
whereas the facts were that the various tribes were
engaged in ruthless inter-tribal wars often to
annihilation of a tribe for the best
hunting/farming/gathering grounds. The other fact was
that the natives were often barely living at a subsitance
level and the least little upset in game numbers or
climate could mean starvation and the end of that tribal
group.

Actually, what you paint as a simple picture is not so
simple. Conditions varied greatly between locales and
times, and as artifacts evidence, in some places in some
time periods life was easier than in others. Similarly,
ruthless inter-tribal wars existed, and peaceful
inter-tribal relations existed, and neither were uncommon.

As its been described to me; there were a few particularly
nasty tribes, but on the whole the settlers were greeted by
friendly helpful natives - until they realised it was an
invasion........


Great name for a band; Queen Boudicca & the Savages.

Didn't she lead an army of Pagans against the Romans? - WTF is that to do
with native Americans.

Army of pagans? Weren't the Romans pagan? After all it was ~60 AD and
I don't think that the Vatican had been built yet :-)

Rome was a polytheistic society, it had that much in common with Pagan
beliefs.

The word; "Pagan" has a meaning that you can look up because I can't be
bothered - it has more to do with where they live than what they believe.

The Romans started off trying to wipe out the Christians as a perceived
threat to their power, it turned out to be a virus bomb - the Roman empire
was well and truly infected by the time they invaded Britain.

I see you really do know so little about religion that you shouldn't talk about it.

Romans didn't start out persecuting Christians no more than Jews. In fact the only edict from the Emperor was some time around 300 AD and only lasted for 18 months.

The other persecutions of Christians was on an ad hoc basis and most of the time they were ignored including the preaching of the Saints.

We all get it - you don't like religion because you don't understand it.

On of the problems with studying the early Christian religion was that
later adherents re-wrote history. There is for example, an earlier
"church" that did not adhere to Paul's version. There were a number of
early "books" not included in the present "Bible", there is even some
thought that Jesus may have been mentioned in the dead sea scrolls.

It should come as no surprise that a Mashiach (Messiah) might have been mentioned in the dead sea scrolls. It is part of the Jewish culture. This would not be expressly Jesus.

wrote in message
...
On Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 1:10:29 PM UTC-7, Ian Field wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 7:46:10 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/18/2017 12:13 AM, John B. Alocomb wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 21:11:51 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news On 6/15/2017 4:01 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"Doug Landau" wrote in message
...

Just like in North America where there's the myth that
the Amerindians at the time of their discovery by
Europeans were a peaceful bunch living a bountiful life
whereas the facts were that the various tribes were
engaged in ruthless inter-tribal wars often to
annihilation of a tribe for the best
hunting/farming/gathering grounds. The other fact was
that the natives were often barely living at a subsitance
level and the least little upset in game numbers or
climate could mean starvation and the end of that tribal
group.

Actually, what you paint as a simple picture is not so
simple. Conditions varied greatly between locales and
times, and as artifacts evidence, in some places in some
time periods life was easier than in others. Similarly,
ruthless inter-tribal wars existed, and peaceful
inter-tribal relations existed, and neither were uncommon.

As its been described to me; there were a few particularly
nasty tribes, but on the whole the settlers were greeted by
friendly helpful natives - until they realised it was an
invasion........


Great name for a band; Queen Boudicca & the Savages.

Didn't she lead an army of Pagans against the Romans? - WTF is that
to
do
with native Americans.

Army of pagans? Weren't the Romans pagan? After all it was ~60 AD
and
I don't think that the Vatican had been built yet :-)


--

Cheers,.

John B.


In Latin of the time, pagani were 'country folk',
'bumpkins', so it's apt.

'Savages' was probably overwrought.

I get a real laugh at our discussion group children who are unaware
that
the way the world worked for over 200,000 years was to conquer,
confiscate
and murder. But according to them the world should have been
difference.
We should have allowed ourselves to be conquered and murdered and all
of
our possessions stolen.

The North American Indian tribes came from the Siberia area of Asia
across
the ice bridge in the last ice age and down into North America. Where
they
conquered and murdered the occupants driving them down into Mexico.

That was the prevailing theory during the cold war.

someone's just popped up with the notion that they originated in Syria.

Theory? Do you know what DNA analysis is?

Probably better than the nut jobs that keep popping up with these theories.