Cities Turning to Bicycles

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:08:41 GMT,
(Brent P) wrote:

In article , Tim McNamara wrote:

Speed bumps are installed because morons ignore the speed limits and
drive unsafely through neighborhoods populated with children. Doing
what I have to do to provide a reasonably safe environment for my
children is not being a busybody. If you can't drive responsibly in
my neighborhood you will pay the price, because I *will* protect my
family whether that's with speed bumps or my Second Amendment rights.
That's simple enough, eh?

People driving fast through residential areas is the direct result of
screwing up the roads elsewhere. If the busy-bodies, control freaks, and
lowest common demonator believers hadn't screwed up the other roads this
problem wouldn't have occured. Yet, what is the solution to this problem?
more half-assed patch methods. It's insanity to suspect that doing the
same sort of thing is going to lead to different results this time. The
result will be the same as it has been, more problems.


Yeah we had a street that was picturesque and quite nice for biking
(and for driving), 25mph, but due to congestion, traffic went up and
drivers sped faster to make up for the "detour". So what did they do?

Those durn city planners put in 'traffic calming' curb "islands",
narrowing the overall road. Why not put in a bike lane, fer cryin out
loud!?

All the traffic calming 'blebs' did was cause the motorists to run up
onto them jumping the curb and plowing up the grass several times a
week, and now ppl still speed, and there's a -lot- less room for a
bike. There was even talk of taking them out. Now -that- would be
expensive...not to mention noisy, jackhammering up all the concrete.

Sheesh.

-B

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:20:58 -0700, Terry Morse
wrote:

maxo wrote:

I'd love to have another microcar for the city, but you can't even buy
them in the US any more.

http://www.zapworld.com/cars/smartcar.asp

According to ZAP, the should be available in "a few weeks".

Typical cost? (didn't see it on the site)

-B

In article , Zoot Katz wrote:
Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:51:27 GMT, PuD6d.131665$MQ5.55161@attbi_s52,
tetraethyllead yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote:

The lowest common denominator is the asswipe cagers screwing up the
roads simply by being there en masse.

I see the same things on bike paths.

Really? I've not much experience with bike paths having never seen
one. If you're talking about FMUPs then the thing that screws up those
are speeding cyclists, careless bladers, irresponsible dog walkers and
packs of young mothers out jogging their strollers. It all depends on
who you ask.

Don't know what FMUPs are but all those you mention cept for "speeding
cyclists" use the bicycle paths just as they drive on the roads.
Most fast cyclists are just fine and keep right except to pass. It's a
bicycle road, they are using it correctly as such. Because bike paths
have been taken over by peds a other fools that mostly drive think that high
speed bicycle travel doesn't belong on the bicycle path I use the roads.

Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:41:41 GMT, VdE6d.138320$D%.135878@attbi_s51,
tetraethyllead yahoo (Brent P) wrote:

I see the same things on bike paths.

Really? I've not much experience with bike paths having never seen
one. If you're talking about FMUPs then the thing that screws up those
are speeding cyclists, careless bladers, irresponsible dog walkers and
packs of young mothers out jogging their strollers. It all depends on
who you ask.

Most fast cyclists are just fine and keep right except to pass. It's a
bicycle road, they are using it correctly as such. Because bike paths
have been taken over by peds a other fools that mostly drive think that high
speed bicycle travel doesn't belong on the bicycle path I use the roads.

FMUP is a friggin' multi-use path. It's not a "bicycle road". It's a
recreational facility for sharing with other users. It's not designed
nor designated as a "bicycle road", whatever that is. As I said, I've
never seen one.
--
zk

"maxo" wrote in message

What we're not getting are all the cars that the rest of the world drives
that are between the size of a Mini and a Ford Focus. Usually with an
engine in the 1.0 to 1.6 range, a five speed stick, and gas mileage around
45mpg.


Well, those cars used to be sold here (in the late 70's and 80's) and may be
again if the price of gas creates a demand for them. Though, if they want
45mpg, more people will probably choose midsize hybrids rather than
subcompacts.

Design-wise, the European cars look like they're a decade ahead of the
rest of the world.

But in terms of reliability they're not doing so well. European brands
trail Japanese and US models here in repair records (VW, Audi are
particularly bad -- even Mercedes is subpar).


Why can't you buy the exiting, but tiny, models in the US? Partly it's the
safety requirements, of course, but also it's because you can steer
consumers to the more profitable and larger models.

It's because American consumers don't want tiny cars. Partly that's because
of gas prices and partly because infrastructure issues (narrow streets,
scarce parking) are not a problem in the US.


Cute and small city cars probably won't sell very well in Wichita, but
there are dozens of cities where they will.


I'm skeptical. Even in large US cities, small cars have little real
advantage (other than economy) -- lanes, garages, parking places, etc, are
big enough even for SUVs.

Mark

Badger_South wrote:

Terry Morse wrote:

http://www.zapworld.com/cars/smartcar.asp

According to ZAP, the should be available in "a few weeks".

Typical cost? (didn't see it on the site)

$12-20K, according to MSNBC:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5217861/

--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

In article , Zoot Katz wrote:
Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:41:41 GMT, VdE6d.138320$D%.135878@attbi_s51,
tetraethyllead yahoo (Brent P) wrote:

I see the same things on bike paths.

Really? I've not much experience with bike paths having never seen
one. If you're talking about FMUPs then the thing that screws up those
are speeding cyclists, careless bladers, irresponsible dog walkers and
packs of young mothers out jogging their strollers. It all depends on
who you ask.

Most fast cyclists are just fine and keep right except to pass. It's a
bicycle road, they are using it correctly as such. Because bike paths
have been taken over by peds a other fools that mostly drive think that high
speed bicycle travel doesn't belong on the bicycle path I use the roads.

FMUP is a friggin' multi-use path. It's not a "bicycle road". It's a
recreational facility for sharing with other users. It's not designed
nor designated as a "bicycle road", whatever that is. As I said, I've
never seen one.

They aren't called multi-use paths here, they are called bike paths. And
thusly should be a bicycle road, but never are.

Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:23:56 GMT, wRE6d.72921$wV.38047@attbi_s54,
tetraethyllead yahoo (Brent P) wrote:

FMUP is a friggin' multi-use path. It's not a "bicycle road". It's a
recreational facility for sharing with other users. It's not designed
nor designated as a "bicycle road", whatever that is. As I said, I've
never seen one.

They aren't called multi-use paths here, they are called bike paths. And
thusly should be a bicycle road, but never are.

They're probably called "bike paths" so they can qualify for money
diverted from transportation funding.
Without constructing a barricade along its entire length, like a
freeway or toll road, it's foolishly naive to consider one anything
but a FMUP.
--
zk

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:10:40 -0700, Terry Morse wrote:

Badger_South wrote:

Terry Morse wrote:

http://www.zapworld.com/cars/smartcar.asp

According to ZAP, the should be available in "a few weeks".

Typical cost? (didn't see it on the site)

$12-20K, according to MSNBC:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5217861/

A bit pricey to be sure, I wish they could break the 10K value mark.

I've sat in, poked, but not driven those Smart Cars.As teeny as they are,
the build quality is amazing, they certainly don't feel like "econoboxes".
They have a vibe kinda like my VW Jetta Wagon, small, but classy. The
passenger compartment itself does not feel cramped one whit, though it's
kinda bizarre to have the back window so close to your head.

I still want one. :P

Brent P wrote:

In article , Tim McNamara wrote:

The cause of people driving fast through
neighborhoods is pushing down on the damned gas pedal too hard.


So you believe this problem occured spontanously?

No, it didn't occur spontaneously. It occurred because there's
insufficient testing for drivers' licenses.

At a minimum, there should be intense psychological testing to determine
whether a person thinks saving ten seconds of commute time, and/or
preventing damage to his delicate toy car, is more of a concern than the
living environment of a residential neighborhood. Oh, and they should
also check to see if someone has an irrational fixation on
"transportation efficiency" or "underposted speed limits." Folks that
have those problems shouldn't get licenses.

Problem solved! And those folks would probably be more content, too.
Think of the frustration they'll never experience! ;-)




It's
a choice people make, it's a choice they are responsible for, and if
they can't be good neighbors voluntarily then they will face things
like speed bumps, restricted access residential streets, etc. Trying
to lay off the responsibility for people's inappropriate choices onto
someone else is classic mid-70's liberal bull****- it was bull****
then and it's bull**** now (and BTW, I'm speaking as a long-time
liberal).


I am not laying off responsibility. I am finding the root cause.

"Yer honor, my client had a terrible childhood! He grew up in a home
with only two televisions and no Game Boy. After that, the stress of
waiting for a traffic light would be too much for anyone! That's the
root cause of his mowing down the elderly couple. He's to be pitied,
sir, not punished!!"

More stupidity and laying the blame for personal choices at the feet
of others.


Again, I am not taking responsibility from the individual driver.

You're making excuses for them all day long. Quit whining.


--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]