Toronto is Canada's most hazardous city for both cyclists and pedestrians

Hi there.

This article is interesting for what it doesn't say as well as for
what it does say. Here is the link to the short article.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/city-hazard...000859909.html

Once again the proposed fix is to physically separate bicyclists from
other road users. I really wonder if this is such a great idea. I fear
that one day it will be legal to *ONLY* ride in designated bicylce
areas even if they are poorly designed or don't go where you want to.

Many people wonder if physical separated bike lanes the answer for:

1. Experienced or rules of the road following bicyclists

or

2. Casual riders or bicyclists who flaunt the rules of the road such
as riding through red lights at major intersections with high traffic

or

3. All bicyclists irregradless of their ability

I see many riders who flagrantly violate many rules of the road with
the result that they either could be or are involved in a bicycle vs
car collision or bicycle vs pedestrian collision or they could or do
cause an accident to happen to another bicyclist or car driver.

When I see these violators I often think that it's no wonder that many
people would like to see bicycles off the roads and/or licensed.

Cheers from Peter

On 5/29/2011 5:51 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Hi there.

Toronto is in Iowa:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=41.903638,-90.864329&num=1&sll=41.905021,-90.864035&sspn=0.01661,0.032015&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=4 1.904369,-90.863296&spn=0.003833,0.010568&t=h&z=17.

This article is interesting for what it doesn't say as well as for
what it does say. Here is the link to the short article.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/city-hazard...000859909.html

Once again the proposed fix is to physically separate bicyclists from
other road users. I really wonder if this is such a great idea. I fear
that one day it will be legal to *ONLY* ride in designated bicylce
areas even if they are poorly designed or don't go where you want to.

Build a ghetto, and it will be mandated.

Many people wonder if physical separated bike lanes the answer for:

1. Experienced or rules of the road following bicyclists

Of course not.

or

2. Casual riders or bicyclists who flaunt the rules of the road such
as riding through red lights at major intersections with high traffic

Natural selection in action.

or

3. All bicyclists irregradless of their ability

Leave velomobilists out of it.

I see many riders who flagrantly violate many rules of the road with
the result that they either could be or are involved in a bicycle vs
car collision or bicycle vs pedestrian collision or they could or do
cause an accident to happen to another bicyclist or car driver.

When I see these violators I often think that it's no wonder that many
people would like to see bicycles off the roads and/or licensed.

But motonsâ„¢ do not evoke similar feelings?

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 5/29/2011 11:34 AM, Phil W Lee wrote:
Sir considered Sun, 29 May 2011
03:51:16 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:

Hi there.

This article is interesting for what it doesn't say as well as for
what it does say. Here is the link to the short article.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/city-hazard...000859909.html

Once again the proposed fix is to physically separate bicyclists from
other road users. I really wonder if this is such a great idea. I fear
that one day it will be legal to *ONLY* ride in designated bicylce
areas even if they are poorly designed or don't go where you want to.

Many people wonder if physical separated bike lanes the answer for:

1. Experienced or rules of the road following bicyclists

or

2. Casual riders or bicyclists who flaunt the rules of the road such
as riding through red lights at major intersections with high traffic

or

3. All bicyclists irregradless of their ability

I see many riders who flagrantly violate many rules of the road with
the result that they either could be or are involved in a bicycle vs
car collision or bicycle vs pedestrian collision or they could or do
cause an accident to happen to another bicyclist or car driver.

When I see these violators I often think that it's no wonder that many
people would like to see bicycles off the roads and/or licensed.

Cheers from Peter
The thing I notice most about that is that it makes no reference at
all to cycling rates, only using "per 100,000 head of population" as a
metric.
On that basis, all they need to do is drive all vulnerable road users
off the roads and they will be safe.

How can traffic planners be that stupid?

Toronto has 18 lane highways. They can be that stupid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_401

As for cycling, Toronto is generally way behind Vancouver and Montreal
as far as numbers of cyclists, both recreational and commuters. You can
probably google that if you're interested for specifics. The province
has recently asked for assistance from Velo-Quebec WRT cycling.
Hopefully that will help.

On May 29, 9:42 am, Duane Hebert wrote:
On 5/29/2011 11:34 AM, Phil W Lee wrote:



Sir considered Sun, 29 May 2011
03:51:16 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:

Hi there.

This article is interesting for what it doesn't say as well as for
what it does say. Here is the link to the short article.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/city-hazard...ns-report-0008...

Once again the proposed fix is to physically separate bicyclists from
other road users. I really wonder if this is such a great idea. I fear
that one day it will be legal to *ONLY* ride in designated bicylce
areas even if they are poorly designed or don't go where you want to.

Many people wonder if physical separated bike lanes the answer for:

1. Experienced or rules of the road following bicyclists

or

2. Casual riders or bicyclists who flaunt the rules of the road such
as riding through red lights at major intersections with high traffic

or

3. All bicyclists irregradless of their ability

I see many riders who flagrantly violate many rules of the road with
the result that they either could be or are involved in a bicycle vs
car collision or bicycle vs pedestrian collision or they could or do
cause an accident to happen to another bicyclist or car driver.

When I see these violators I often think that it's no wonder that many
people would like to see bicycles off the roads and/or licensed.

Cheers from Peter
The thing I notice most about that is that it makes no reference at
all to cycling rates, only using "per 100,000 head of population" as a
metric.
On that basis, all they need to do is drive all vulnerable road users
off the roads and they will be safe.

How can traffic planners be that stupid?

Toronto has 18 lane highways. They can be that stupid.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_401

As for cycling, Toronto is generally way behind Vancouver and Montreal
as far as numbers of cyclists, both recreational and commuters. You can
probably google that if you're interested for specifics. The province
has recently asked for assistance from Velo-Quebec WRT cycling.
Hopefully that will help.

Fewer pedestrians, too, apparently. More cagers per capita? (I
wonder what the comparative prosecutions for negligent driving might
be.)

I just like options, and when one of them is designated for bikes, it
can be a nice option. Sidewalks and crosswalks, too (legal here for
bikes). You have to watch out for yourself everywhere. Riding over,
around and through a bit of everything is funnest.

On 5/29/2011 1:06 PM, Dan O wrote:
On May 29, 9:42 am, Duane wrote:
On 5/29/2011 11:34 AM, Phil W Lee wrote:



Sir considered Sun, 29 May 2011
03:51:16 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:
Hi there.
This article is interesting for what it doesn't say as well as for
what it does say. Here is the link to the short article.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/city-hazard...ns-report-0008...
Once again the proposed fix is to physically separate bicyclists from
other road users. I really wonder if this is such a great idea. I fear
that one day it will be legal to *ONLY* ride in designated bicylce
areas even if they are poorly designed or don't go where you want to.
Many people wonder if physical separated bike lanes the answer for:
1. Experienced or rules of the road following bicyclists
or
2. Casual riders or bicyclists who flaunt the rules of the road such
as riding through red lights at major intersections with high traffic
or
3. All bicyclists irregradless of their ability
I see many riders who flagrantly violate many rules of the road with
the result that they either could be or are involved in a bicycle vs
car collision or bicycle vs pedestrian collision or they could or do
cause an accident to happen to another bicyclist or car driver.
When I see these violators I often think that it's no wonder that many
people would like to see bicycles off the roads and/or licensed.
Cheers from Peter
The thing I notice most about that is that it makes no reference at
all to cycling rates, only using "per 100,000 head of population" as a
metric.
On that basis, all they need to do is drive all vulnerable road users
off the roads and they will be safe.
How can traffic planners be that stupid?
Toronto has 18 lane highways. They can be that stupid.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_401

As for cycling, Toronto is generally way behind Vancouver and Montreal
as far as numbers of cyclists, both recreational and commuters. You can
probably google that if you're interested for specifics. The province
has recently asked for assistance from Velo-Quebec WRT cycling.
Hopefully that will help.
Fewer pedestrians, too, apparently. More cagers per capita? (I
wonder what the comparative prosecutions for negligent driving might
be.)


Don't know. I try to avoid Toronto except when I have to go there for
business.
I made a comment once about riding a bike doing Yonge street at rush
hour and got
lambasted by the usual suspect.

South of Toronto, around the Ontario wine country and toward Niagara is
pretty scenic for
cycling though.
I just like options, and when one of them is designated for bikes, it
can be a nice option. Sidewalks and crosswalks, too (legal here for
bikes). You have to watch out for yourself everywhere. Riding over,
around and through a bit of everything is funnest.

Not sure what Toronto could do. There are just too many people and too many
cars. Hopefully, someone with some expertise can help them. They seem
to need
that.

Phil W Lee wrote:
Sir Ridesalot considered Sun, 29 May 2011
03:51:16 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:

Hi there.

This article is interesting for what it doesn't say as well as for
what it does say. Here is the link to the short article.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/city-hazard...000859909.html

Once again the proposed fix is to physically separate bicyclists from
other road users. I really wonder if this is such a great idea. I fear
that one day it will be legal to *ONLY* ride in designated bicylce
areas even if they are poorly designed or don't go where you want to.

Many people wonder if physical separated bike lanes the answer for:

1. Experienced or rules of the road following bicyclists

or

2. Casual riders or bicyclists who flaunt the rules of the road such
as riding through red lights at major intersections with high traffic

or

3. All bicyclists irregradless of their ability

I see many riders who flagrantly violate many rules of the road with
the result that they either could be or are involved in a bicycle vs
car collision or bicycle vs pedestrian collision or they could or do
cause an accident to happen to another bicyclist or car driver.

When I see these violators I often think that it's no wonder that many
people would like to see bicycles off the roads and/or licensed.

Cheers from Peter

The thing I notice most about that is that it makes no reference at
all to cycling rates, only using "per 100,000 head of population" as a
metric.
On that basis, all they need to do is drive all vulnerable road users
off the roads and they will be safe.

How can traffic planners be that stupid?

They are 'professionals'. Comes with the turf.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi wrote:
Phil W Lee wrote:

How can traffic planners be that stupid?

They are 'professionals'. Comes with the turf.


Professional experts. Even worse.

--
JS.

On May 29, 1:32*pm, Duane Hebert wrote:

Not sure what Toronto could do. *There are just too many people and too many
cars. *Hopefully, someone with some expertise can help them. *They seem
to need
that

I commute every day in Toronto during rush hour to and from the
financial district. It doesn't seem dangerous to me at all. I don't
use any of the bike lanes that are available to me, I prefer to share
the roads.
It's bike to work day here today. I rode in early to get a spot on the
bike rack outside my office. Hopefully some of the people who tried
commuting today will become regulars. The more the merrier.

Cam

On 5/30/2011 9:11 AM, Cam wrote:
On May 29, 1:32 pm, Duane wrote:

Not sure what Toronto could do. There are just too many people and too many
cars. Hopefully, someone with some expertise can help them. They seem
to need
that

I commute every day in Toronto during rush hour to and from the
financial district. It doesn't seem dangerous to me at all. I don't
use any of the bike lanes that are available to me, I prefer to share
the roads.

Haven't ridden there often but I found there to be a lot of traffic.
Not dangerous, just a lot of traffic.

On the other hand, driving a car on the 401 is something that I find to
be dangerous. Probably because I never know which lane is forcing me to
get off in the wrong place. I drove in Boston for 5 years, rotaries
included and didn't find it as bad.

It's bike to work day here today. I rode in early to get a spot on the
bike rack outside my office. Hopefully some of the people who tried
commuting today will become regulars. The more the merrier.

Yes. I'm on my bike today as well. Here in Montreal it seems that the
rain has finally stopped. Nice warm and sunny day. Lots of bikes out.

On 5/30/2011 8:54 AM, Duane Hebert wrote:
[...]
On the other hand, driving a car on the 401 is something that I find to
be dangerous. Probably because I never know which lane is forcing me to
get off in the wrong place. I drove in Boston for 5 years, rotaries
included and didn't find it as bad.[...] ^^^^^^^^

Mazda or NSU?

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.