"Carbon" tires

I'm a high-mileage roadie and most of my miles are on tar and gravel roads
that eat up tires. I refuse to pay $40 and $50 for tires. I buy whatever
looks halfway decent and is on closeout.

Lately I'm seeing lots of closeouts on tires that feature "carbon." I
bought a couple of tires at my LBS today for $30 (for the pair). They're
Avocet "Carbon" folding 700x23 tires. They're only 200 grams for 700x23
which seems really light.

Is that the feature of carbon? Lightness? Is it just marketing jazz or is
there anything beneficial about having carbon?

Separate question ... Performance had this closeout on Pariba Pro Evolution
road tires. I think I got three tires for about $40. They've been
excellent tires. They're durable, have a wonderful ride and, the price was
right. Now I need to get some more and Performance doesn't carry them
anymore. Neither does anyone else that I can find. I can't even come up
with anything on Pariba on a Google search. I know they're affiliated with
Vredestein, but that's about all I can find out. I'd sure like to find more
of these tires.

Bob C.

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:21:44 -0500, psycholist wrote:

I'm a high-mileage roadie and most of my miles are on tar and gravel roads
that eat up tires. I refuse to pay $40 and $50 for tires. I buy whatever
looks halfway decent and is on closeout.

Lately I'm seeing lots of closeouts on tires that feature "carbon." I
bought a couple of tires at my LBS today for $30 (for the pair). They're
Avocet "Carbon" folding 700x23 tires. They're only 200 grams for 700x23
which seems really light.

Is that the feature of carbon? Lightness? Is it just marketing jazz or is
there anything beneficial about having carbon?

These are good tires. You don't want 'em? I do. But the carbon (to be
specific, they advertise a particular isotope....) is the additive to the
rubber compound to make it more durable. Carbon is far better than
silicon, in that it holds the road better. Not lighter, though, at least
not significantly. The kevlar bead is lighter than steel, by about 30g.

I don't use the folding version usually, but I*only ride Avocet tires.
They are very nice, and a good value. Like I said, if you don't want
them, I'll refund what you paid for them.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you
_`\(,_ | killed all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds,
(_)/ (_) | thousands would rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't
kill that fast. -- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).

psycholist wrote:

Lately I'm seeing lots of closeouts on tires that feature "carbon." I
bought a couple of tires at my LBS today for $30 (for the pair). They're
Avocet "Carbon" folding 700x23 tires. They're only 200 grams for 700x23
which seems really light.

Which LBS, and do they have any more left? That's a great price for
Avocets.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/

"psycholist" writes:

I'm a high-mileage roadie and most of my miles are on tar and gravel
roads that eat up tires. I refuse to pay $40 and $50 for tires. I
buy whatever looks halfway decent and is on closeout.

Lately I'm seeing lots of closeouts on tires that feature "carbon."
I bought a couple of tires at my LBS today for $30 (for the pair).
They're Avocet "Carbon" folding 700x23 tires. They're only 200
grams for 700x23 which seems really light.

Is that the feature of carbon? Lightness? Is it just marketing
jazz or is there anything beneficial about having carbon?

Tire rubber is not pure rubber, it has additives. The additive of
carbon black has been present in tires for decades, it is what makes
the rubber harder and more durable and improves wet traction. It
also makes the rubber black (see latex surgical rubber tube for the
"natural" color of latex rubber).

A few years ago, some tire manufacturers decided to market colored
tires and used silica instead of carbon black, as this permitted the
use of dyes to color the rubber. This resulted also in rubber that
is a little more stretchable and flexible, with results in
theoretically lower rolling resistance. They sold millions of the
things. The downside is that they wear much more rapidly and tend to
have poor wet traction.

Avocet decided to fight back by ramping up the marketing spin of
their carbon-based rubber compound, which is excellent and has worked
well for years. Michelin has followed this lead to an extent,
probably in part because there has been an extensive public
discussion of the deficiencies of slica-based rubbers.

Terry Morse wrote:

psycholist wrote:

Lately I'm seeing lots of closeouts on tires that feature "carbon."
I bought a couple of tires at my LBS today for $30 (for the pair).
They're Avocet "Carbon" folding 700x23 tires. They're only 200
grams for 700x23 which seems really light.

Which LBS, and do they have any more left? That's a great price for
Avocets.

Yeah, no kidding. Where can I get some?

Matt O.

Thanks for all the replies. I've been a huge fan of Avocet tires for years.
My LBS hated me 'cuz I went through more tires than anyone else, but I
wouldn't buy his high-zoot tires. I'd only buy his $25 Avocet Fasgrip TT
30s. They're my standby tire. But, as I said, I'm always looking for
cheaper closeouts. The Avocets he sold me yesterday were the only two he
had and nobody but me would buy them. He was about to send them back to the
distributor when I showed up and took them off his hands.

I got into Avocet Fasgrip TT 30 tires a couple of years ago after I read a
post by Jobst Brandt where he recommended them for their light weight AND
high durability. Compared to what I'd been riding before, he was certainly
right.

Bob C.

psycholist wrote:

Thanks for all the replies. I've been a huge fan of Avocet tires for
years. My LBS hated me 'cuz I went through more tires than anyone
else, but I wouldn't buy his high-zoot tires. I'd only buy his $25
Avocet Fasgrip TT 30s. They're my standby tire. But, as I said, I'm
always looking for cheaper closeouts. The Avocets he sold me
yesterday were the only two he had and nobody but me would buy them.
He was about to send them back to the distributor when I showed up
and took them off his hands.

I got into Avocet Fasgrip TT 30 tires a couple of years ago after I
read a post by Jobst Brandt where he recommended them for their light
weight AND high durability. Compared to what I'd been riding before,
he was certainly right.

FWIW, I've seen a bunch of these on eBay recently, for like $15.00 a pair.
However, they were 20mm, which is too skinny for me, plus they were NOS, 15
years old -- not good for a rubber product.

Indeed, the 25mm ones that Jobst likes are my favorites too. I had them on my
last bike, and they were the best I'd ever used. My current, supposedly
superfast Vittorias are no faster, don't inspire as much confidence on descents,
and probably won't last half as long. I know what I'll be replacing them with!

Getting back to tires labeled "carbon" -- usually it refers to the tread, but I
think some (Hutchinson?) may actually have some carbon fiber in the casing. Of
course it's all for show, and doesn't make a dime's worth of difference.
Unfortunately this makes it unclear whether there's carbon in the tread, which
you *do* want.

Matt O.

Tim McNamara wrote in message ...
Avocet decided to fight back by ramping up the marketing spin of
their carbon-based rubber compound, which is excellent and has worked
well for years. Michelin has followed this lead to an extent,
probably in part because there has been an extensive public
discussion of the deficiencies of slica-based rubbers.

Agree, the japanese made Avocet Fasgrip ROAD 30 700x28 (now accurately
relabeled to 700x25) are also my favorite tires and I still have a
small stash. When my stash of japanese Avocet tires are used up, I
thought about trying out the *new* Michelin carbon 700x25 tires as I
haven't heard positive things about the newer korean made Avocet
Carbon 12 tires.

Danny at crit usa had the Michelin carbon 700x23 and 700x25 for like
$24 each shipped. However, thanks to the strength of the dollar, way
to go Bush, prices have really gone up as he now sells them for
something like $33 each PLUS shipping, sigh....

My LBS hated me 'cuz I went through more tires than anyone else, but I
wouldn't buy his high-zoot tires. I'd only buy his $25 Avocet Fasgrip TT

Tho' one must wonder, if you go through "more" tires @ $25 per. vs. purchasing
a better quality tire which would "possibly" last longer at $50 per...well,
you do the math. One thing I "will" guarantee, that no one in retail would ever
"hate" you for moving merchandise out the door.

(Mrvongole) wrote in
:
Tho' one must wonder, if you go through "more" tires @ $25 per. vs.
purchasing a better quality tire which would "possibly" last longer at
$50 per

Which $50 tires last twice as long as $25 tires? Most $50 tires are lighter
weight and wear out more quickly than $25 tires.