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cleaning fun...(not)



 
 
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  #41  
Old October 6th 03, 12:09 AM
Deep Freud Moors
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default cleaning fun...(not)

Jose Rizal wrote in message
link.net...
Deep Freud Moors:

With regards to your bearings, if they are well packed with grease,

getting
water in should not be a big problem. The primary purpose of the grease

is
not lubrication, but to keep dirt and water out.


Not true. In bearings the primary purpose of grease is lubrication.
The primary purpose of seals is keeping water and dirt out.


Yes true. Grease is grease, and not designed as a lubricant. Oil is designed
as a lubricant, grease is not. It does treat the metal surfaces to a degree,
but any lubricating effect disappears quickly.

When you pack your bearings with grease, it gets pushed out of the way of
the bearings after a couple of turns, and does not return due to its
viscosity. The driest part of the bearing assembly is usually the surface
where the bearings run. Whilst that surface is clean, there are no probs.
Basic wheels nowadays are not sealed either, but have donut-shaped little
caps, which are designed to work in conjunction with the grease to keep dirt
and water out.
---
DFM


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  #42  
Old October 6th 03, 12:09 AM
Deep Freud Moors
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default cleaning fun...(not)

Jose Rizal wrote in message
link.net...
Deep Freud Moors:

With regards to your bearings, if they are well packed with grease,

getting
water in should not be a big problem. The primary purpose of the grease

is
not lubrication, but to keep dirt and water out.


Not true. In bearings the primary purpose of grease is lubrication.
The primary purpose of seals is keeping water and dirt out.


Yes true. Grease is grease, and not designed as a lubricant. Oil is designed
as a lubricant, grease is not. It does treat the metal surfaces to a degree,
but any lubricating effect disappears quickly.

When you pack your bearings with grease, it gets pushed out of the way of
the bearings after a couple of turns, and does not return due to its
viscosity. The driest part of the bearing assembly is usually the surface
where the bearings run. Whilst that surface is clean, there are no probs.
Basic wheels nowadays are not sealed either, but have donut-shaped little
caps, which are designed to work in conjunction with the grease to keep dirt
and water out.
---
DFM


  #43  
Old October 6th 03, 12:33 AM
Jose Rizal
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default cleaning fun...(not)

Deep Freud Moors:

Jose Rizal wrote in message
link.net...
Deep Freud Moors:

With regards to your bearings, if they are well packed with grease,

getting
water in should not be a big problem. The primary purpose of the grease

is
not lubrication, but to keep dirt and water out.


Not true. In bearings the primary purpose of grease is lubrication.
The primary purpose of seals is keeping water and dirt out.


Yes true. Grease is grease, and not designed as a lubricant. Oil is designed
as a lubricant, grease is not. It does treat the metal surfaces to a degree,
but any lubricating effect disappears quickly.


And where did you get this little gem of a myth from? You may think you
have a new contrary insight into something that's been established by
tribology science hundreds of years ago, but I think you're just making
it up. Read any basic tribology book.

When you pack your bearings with grease, it gets pushed out of the way of
the bearings after a couple of turns, and does not return due to its
viscosity.


So why do you think your bearings remain lubricated when only grease is
ever applied by the manufacturer/mechanic?

Grease consists of oil and carrier compound. The carrier is thick and
while the bulk of it may be pushed out of the way of the bearing/race
interface, the oil remains between the contact patch and the carrier/oil
compound which stays around the path ensures a steady supply of
lubricant.

The driest part of the bearing assembly is usually the surface
where the bearings run.


Please. The bearing/race contact path is not in fact dry, but
lubricated with a thin film provided by the grease. Even with a
tremendous load the film remains; the only way to eliminate the
lubricant is to wash it away with solvent or stop replenishing it, in
which case it may dry up eventually. Grease ensures adequate lubricant
supply for a longer time than mere oil.

Whilst that surface is clean, there are no probs.
Basic wheels nowadays are not sealed either, but have donut-shaped little
caps, which are designed to work in conjunction with the grease to keep dirt
and water out.


Grease as water and dirt barrier is a secondary characteristic, not
primary. Grease in fact attracts dirt. It's not a substitute for
seals. If it were so, seals for bearings or any rotating machinery will
not be necessary.



  #44  
Old October 6th 03, 12:33 AM
Jose Rizal
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default cleaning fun...(not)

Deep Freud Moors:

Jose Rizal wrote in message
link.net...
Deep Freud Moors:

With regards to your bearings, if they are well packed with grease,

getting
water in should not be a big problem. The primary purpose of the grease

is
not lubrication, but to keep dirt and water out.


Not true. In bearings the primary purpose of grease is lubrication.
The primary purpose of seals is keeping water and dirt out.


Yes true. Grease is grease, and not designed as a lubricant. Oil is designed
as a lubricant, grease is not. It does treat the metal surfaces to a degree,
but any lubricating effect disappears quickly.


And where did you get this little gem of a myth from? You may think you
have a new contrary insight into something that's been established by
tribology science hundreds of years ago, but I think you're just making
it up. Read any basic tribology book.

When you pack your bearings with grease, it gets pushed out of the way of
the bearings after a couple of turns, and does not return due to its
viscosity.


So why do you think your bearings remain lubricated when only grease is
ever applied by the manufacturer/mechanic?

Grease consists of oil and carrier compound. The carrier is thick and
while the bulk of it may be pushed out of the way of the bearing/race
interface, the oil remains between the contact patch and the carrier/oil
compound which stays around the path ensures a steady supply of
lubricant.

The driest part of the bearing assembly is usually the surface
where the bearings run.


Please. The bearing/race contact path is not in fact dry, but
lubricated with a thin film provided by the grease. Even with a
tremendous load the film remains; the only way to eliminate the
lubricant is to wash it away with solvent or stop replenishing it, in
which case it may dry up eventually. Grease ensures adequate lubricant
supply for a longer time than mere oil.

Whilst that surface is clean, there are no probs.
Basic wheels nowadays are not sealed either, but have donut-shaped little
caps, which are designed to work in conjunction with the grease to keep dirt
and water out.


Grease as water and dirt barrier is a secondary characteristic, not
primary. Grease in fact attracts dirt. It's not a substitute for
seals. If it were so, seals for bearings or any rotating machinery will
not be necessary.



  #45  
Old October 6th 03, 03:30 AM
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default cleaning fun...(not)


Yes true. Grease is grease, and not designed as a lubricant. Oil is designed
as a lubricant, grease is not. It does treat the metal surfaces to a degree,
but any lubricating effect disappears quickly.



And where did you get this little gem of a myth from?


OK guys, grease is definitely a lubricant, but what exactly is its
effect in a bike wheel hub?

How is this theory:
grease primarily lubricates the low-load ball-ball (or ball-race)
contact areas to reduce wear and prolong bearing life.
Friction on the _rolling_ hub/cone-bearing contact is minimal,
and doesnt directly need grease, just to keep the bearings in
good condition.

  #46  
Old October 6th 03, 03:30 AM
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default cleaning fun...(not)


Yes true. Grease is grease, and not designed as a lubricant. Oil is designed
as a lubricant, grease is not. It does treat the metal surfaces to a degree,
but any lubricating effect disappears quickly.



And where did you get this little gem of a myth from?


OK guys, grease is definitely a lubricant, but what exactly is its
effect in a bike wheel hub?

How is this theory:
grease primarily lubricates the low-load ball-ball (or ball-race)
contact areas to reduce wear and prolong bearing life.
Friction on the _rolling_ hub/cone-bearing contact is minimal,
and doesnt directly need grease, just to keep the bearings in
good condition.

  #47  
Old October 6th 03, 04:31 AM
Deep Freud Moors
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default cleaning fun...(not)

Jose Rizal wrote in message
news
Deep Freud Moors:

Jose Rizal wrote in message
link.net...
Deep Freud Moors:

With regards to your bearings, if they are well packed with grease,

getting
water in should not be a big problem. The primary purpose of the

grease
is
not lubrication, but to keep dirt and water out.

Not true. In bearings the primary purpose of grease is lubrication.
The primary purpose of seals is keeping water and dirt out.


Yes true. Grease is grease, and not designed as a lubricant. Oil is

designed
as a lubricant, grease is not. It does treat the metal surfaces to a

degree,
but any lubricating effect disappears quickly.


And where did you get this little gem of a myth from? You may think you
have a new contrary insight into something that's been established by
tribology science hundreds of years ago, but I think you're just making
it up. Read any basic tribology book.


You were the one that claimed it to not be true. Provide a couple of cites,
and I might just come around to your view.

When you pack your bearings with grease, it gets pushed out of the way

of
the bearings after a couple of turns, and does not return due to its
viscosity.


So why do you think your bearings remain lubricated when only grease is
ever applied by the manufacturer/mechanic?

Grease consists of oil and carrier compound. The carrier is thick and
while the bulk of it may be pushed out of the way of the bearing/race
interface, the oil remains between the contact patch and the carrier/oil
compound which stays around the path ensures a steady supply of
lubricant.


That is what I would constitute as "treating" the metal surface.

The driest part of the bearing assembly is usually the surface
where the bearings run.


Please. The bearing/race contact path is not in fact dry, but
lubricated with a thin film provided by the grease. Even with a
tremendous load the film remains; the only way to eliminate the
lubricant is to wash it away with solvent or stop replenishing it, in
which case it may dry up eventually. Grease ensures adequate lubricant
supply for a longer time than mere oil.


I said "driest". I did not say dry. Yes the grease treats the metal causing
it to last longer. Whether or not this constitutes "lubrication" is up for
debate, but bugger all of the grease hangs around the bearing contact
surfaces.

Whilst that surface is clean, there are no probs.
Basic wheels nowadays are not sealed either, but have donut-shaped

little
caps, which are designed to work in conjunction with the grease to keep

dirt
and water out.


Grease as water and dirt barrier is a secondary characteristic, not
primary.


Utter bull****. Dirt will kill bearings MUCH faster than an absence of
grease. Clean dry bearings will run for a long time, dirty bearings (even
when greased) will not.

Grease in fact attracts dirt. It's not a substitute for
seals. If it were so, seals for bearings or any rotating machinery will
not be necessary.


That is why both seals and grease are used.
---
DFM


  #48  
Old October 6th 03, 04:31 AM
Deep Freud Moors
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default cleaning fun...(not)

Jose Rizal wrote in message
news
Deep Freud Moors:

Jose Rizal wrote in message
link.net...
Deep Freud Moors:

With regards to your bearings, if they are well packed with grease,

getting
water in should not be a big problem. The primary purpose of the

grease
is
not lubrication, but to keep dirt and water out.

Not true. In bearings the primary purpose of grease is lubrication.
The primary purpose of seals is keeping water and dirt out.


Yes true. Grease is grease, and not designed as a lubricant. Oil is

designed
as a lubricant, grease is not. It does treat the metal surfaces to a

degree,
but any lubricating effect disappears quickly.


And where did you get this little gem of a myth from? You may think you
have a new contrary insight into something that's been established by
tribology science hundreds of years ago, but I think you're just making
it up. Read any basic tribology book.


You were the one that claimed it to not be true. Provide a couple of cites,
and I might just come around to your view.

When you pack your bearings with grease, it gets pushed out of the way

of
the bearings after a couple of turns, and does not return due to its
viscosity.


So why do you think your bearings remain lubricated when only grease is
ever applied by the manufacturer/mechanic?

Grease consists of oil and carrier compound. The carrier is thick and
while the bulk of it may be pushed out of the way of the bearing/race
interface, the oil remains between the contact patch and the carrier/oil
compound which stays around the path ensures a steady supply of
lubricant.


That is what I would constitute as "treating" the metal surface.

The driest part of the bearing assembly is usually the surface
where the bearings run.


Please. The bearing/race contact path is not in fact dry, but
lubricated with a thin film provided by the grease. Even with a
tremendous load the film remains; the only way to eliminate the
lubricant is to wash it away with solvent or stop replenishing it, in
which case it may dry up eventually. Grease ensures adequate lubricant
supply for a longer time than mere oil.


I said "driest". I did not say dry. Yes the grease treats the metal causing
it to last longer. Whether or not this constitutes "lubrication" is up for
debate, but bugger all of the grease hangs around the bearing contact
surfaces.

Whilst that surface is clean, there are no probs.
Basic wheels nowadays are not sealed either, but have donut-shaped

little
caps, which are designed to work in conjunction with the grease to keep

dirt
and water out.


Grease as water and dirt barrier is a secondary characteristic, not
primary.


Utter bull****. Dirt will kill bearings MUCH faster than an absence of
grease. Clean dry bearings will run for a long time, dirty bearings (even
when greased) will not.

Grease in fact attracts dirt. It's not a substitute for
seals. If it were so, seals for bearings or any rotating machinery will
not be necessary.


That is why both seals and grease are used.
---
DFM


  #49  
Old October 6th 03, 04:50 AM
Deep Freud Moors
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default cleaning fun...(not)

Mike wrote in message
...

Yes true. Grease is grease, and not designed as a lubricant. Oil is

designed
as a lubricant, grease is not. It does treat the metal surfaces to a

degree,
but any lubricating effect disappears quickly.



And where did you get this little gem of a myth from?


OK guys, grease is definitely a lubricant, but what exactly is its
effect in a bike wheel hub?

How is this theory:
grease primarily lubricates the low-load ball-ball (or ball-race)
contact areas to reduce wear and prolong bearing life.


The grease treats the bearings, but does not hang around in it's viscous
form as such, and so arguably it is no longer grease as such at this point.
You could debate this at end. The important thing is that grease was there
at one point, and that dirt has not gotten in contact with the rolling
surface.

Friction on the _rolling_ hub/cone-bearing contact is minimal,
and doesnt directly need grease, just to keep the bearings in
good condition.


Sounds about right to me!
---
DFM


  #50  
Old October 6th 03, 04:50 AM
Deep Freud Moors
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default cleaning fun...(not)

Mike wrote in message
...

Yes true. Grease is grease, and not designed as a lubricant. Oil is

designed
as a lubricant, grease is not. It does treat the metal surfaces to a

degree,
but any lubricating effect disappears quickly.



And where did you get this little gem of a myth from?


OK guys, grease is definitely a lubricant, but what exactly is its
effect in a bike wheel hub?

How is this theory:
grease primarily lubricates the low-load ball-ball (or ball-race)
contact areas to reduce wear and prolong bearing life.


The grease treats the bearings, but does not hang around in it's viscous
form as such, and so arguably it is no longer grease as such at this point.
You could debate this at end. The important thing is that grease was there
at one point, and that dirt has not gotten in contact with the rolling
surface.

Friction on the _rolling_ hub/cone-bearing contact is minimal,
and doesnt directly need grease, just to keep the bearings in
good condition.


Sounds about right to me!
---
DFM


 




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