Concerning commuting by bike

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 8:32:21 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 9:42:58 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 7:39:46 PM UTC+1, wrote:
In the local craigslist I have been sort of surprised at the numbers of e-bikes that have been turning up. I think that people with good intentions have bought these things as commuters and then discovered to their dismay that distance and not effort is the real problem. People do not want to spend a hour in the morning and an hour in the evening doing physical efforts to get to or back from their place of employment.

Both distance and effort are a problem. There is an additional problem that arises because most of these wannabe ebikers never had a bike before, and so have no concept of tending to the bike.


I have obtained most of my bikes from those people who perhaps rode a single time and then placed the bike in the garage to gather inches of dust. It is pretty amazing what great deals you can get if you're willing to watch and wait.

I know a fellow who always rides desirable bikes and yet has never paid more than 50 euro for his bike of the moment. He buys them out of the garages of people who bought them for exercise but didn't like the perspiration that accompanies the exercise.

I get stopped or approached when I'm stopped by people who've seen my bike in action for ten years. Some of them want to buy it. They're the ones who have bought electric bikes already and been disappointed, and they think mine is better. It is, infinitely better because I designed it to work as I want it to work rather than as some fatarse German legislator wants it to work, but I know they won't go any better with mine than they did with theirs. They bought pedelecs, usually perfectly good ones for substantial money. They're not commuters; they bought the bikes for exercise. It's important that most of them have never had a bike before, or if they had, rode it a handful of times and then parked it in the garage for good; they have no history of servicing their bikes either. With electric bikes they run into two devastating problems. They use the bikes like they're electric motorbikes, pedalling as little as possible. The fact that their bikes are pedelecs that will pass the German regulations is disastrous for them. The countryside here is hilly, and pedelecs are designed to produce input proportional to what the rider puts in through the pedals. So, going uphill, the rider is required to put in more and more effort just to keep progressing slower and slower; and these people aren't too hot on the gears either. This is, of course, arse about end: the electric bike should be set up, or have a facility (a throttle, say), to adjust the electrical input on hills to be a larger than even proportion of the total, so helping the cyclist out. Pedelecs from Germany (and Taiwan, for the same European market) don't have such facilities. So these people are suddenly given more exercise than they want. They call a car to take them home from wherever the battery ran out or they gave up, and park the bike in the garage for good. They see me on the road (from their cars) much further than they ever ventured on their bikes and want to know how I do it. I do it by having a bigger battery than any two of them together, and by building my own electric bike after careful thought of what was required, so that the pedelec shortcomings don't affect me, and of course I grasp that I must pedal, not just pretend I'm exercising. Even if they keep up riding, staying much nearer home, something else that goes wrong for most of them is the battery. "The battery lasted only three months! And it's offing expensive!" is a common refrain. How many batteries have I bought? Only the one I still have. They don't believe this. They rode those batteries until they were absolutely flat, time and again. I explain that by contrast, even if I've ridden only to the shops and back, call it a couple of miles, I recharge the battery. No matter how far they've seen me into the countryside, I return home with more than half the charge still in the battery. "No, no, I don't want the bother," one told me. I didn't tell him that until he grasps how fragile a LiPo battery is, and learns to care for it, he'd better stay out of electric bikes. Those people are exercising because they've been ordered to by their wives or their doctors, they aren't cyclists, they haven't informed themselves about ebikes, or electrics on bikes, or batteries, or even simple accessories like a heart rate monitor. One waited for me in supermarket car park: he wore the fancy heart rate watch on his arm because it looked like a watch and was looking in bafflement at the handlebar mounting with the chest belt in his hand, trying to work out how the chest belt would tie the mounting onto the handlebars. "Read the ****ing manual," I said to him. "No need for obscenity," he said. "This time I'm taking it seriously. I'm not wasting your time." His bike stands in his garage... The only people I know who have successfully switched over to ebikes are people who switched over from being cyclists on pedal-only bikes, who understand that the bike and its components need tending, who have a history of *pedalling*, and who read up on LiPo batteries.

Andre Jute
RTFM

On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 7:09:09 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 4:19:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 11:39:46 AM UTC-7, wrote:
In the local craigslist I have been sort of surprised at the numbers of e-bikes that have been turning up. I think that people with good intentions have bought these things as commuters and then discovered to their dismay that distance and not effort is the real problem. People do not want to spend a hour in the morning and an hour in the evening doing physical efforts to get to or back from their place of employment.

I don't think that there are many people like Jay who are willing to go 10 miles or more to work and return the same distance all sweaty and disturbed by the treatment at the hands of auto commuters who would as soon drive you off the road were it not for possible observers getting their license numbers and reporting them for a felony.

I do very low traffic routes as much as possible but on a ride yesterday I must have been threatened by cars traveling at very high rates of speed and taking very close passes at me. I am almost but not quite used to that and it is especially egregious when the perpetrator is a woman in a very large SUV that gives you plenty of reason to believe that she cannot handle the thing.

Too bad that the police don't react to such things even when they see them.

BTW, my mandatory commute is only five miles. Longer distances on the way home are elective. I work with a guy who is overweight by any measure, and he commutes 12 miles each way every day. He's in his 50s. A lot of his commute is on a rail-trail. BTW, he switched to a disk bike because he was grinding up rims every few years.

Lots of people around here commute by bike when there is no lock-down. https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7579/2...2609f756_z.jpg Its no NL, but we do our part.

Speaking of law enforcement, it works both ways: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azFUWiI2yA0

Ladds Addition is a neighborhood in the close in eastside and home of the Ladds 500: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9U60iFwoIw You can go around a traffic circle 500 times. It's what you do if your a Bohemian and there is no simulated zombie apocalypse to attend.

-- Jay Beattie.

Bicycles absolutely should NOT be ticketed for running stop signs unless someone else has right of way. Coming to a complete stop and accelerating away can put a bicyclist in an intersection for an extended amount of time and increase his danger. This isn't as if running stop signs is a clear and present danger to anyone other than the cyclist himself. Now it would be a different thing if I were given a ticket for running red lights which I have recently done twice because of my concentration on people creeping into the intersection and my missing the changed light.

Are you telling us that you stop at every stop sign?

I stop at all stop signs.

If you blow thru stop signs, then car drivers may feel they can do.

Andy

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 12:08:03 AM UTC+2, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:11:35 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:

On 6/25/2020 1:04 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Thu, 25 Jun 2020 08:45:10 +0700 schrieb John B.
:

On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 21:30:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


It's my understanding that Idaho's law (bikes need only yield at stop
signs) actually adds safety. It's a bit tricky to lobby for that law,
though. Many politicians see it as a pathway to anarchy.

I suspect that not requiring cyclists to stop at stop signs and red
lights will probably encourage a certain percentage of riders to
believe that they never need to stop at all and will likely increase
bicycle accidents.

Thats the textbook argument. I don't buy it. There already is a
certain percentage of riders who do so, whatever the actual rule say.
The majority of these people just continue the behaviour they trained
for on segregated bicycle facilities, where chaos reigns. A better
rule, which isn't as obviously made for cars at least has the advantage
of being better explainable.

At the start of today's ride, I came to a four way stop sign just ahead
of a car to my right. I could have done a quick quasi-stop, but my wife
and our friend were a bit behind me, so instead I put my foot down and
waved a motorist through. He waved a thank you.

I hadn't noticed that not far behind him was one of our village cops!
I'm sure he saw the whole thing, and I'm sure it enhanced my reputation
for competence.

So?

--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

This happens on most of my rides. Nothing special just polite behavior. Enhancing ones reputation for competence? Give me a break. Just give Frank a pat on his back.

Lou

On 6/28/2020 8:11 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 12:08:03 AM UTC+2, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:11:35 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:

On 6/25/2020 1:04 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Thu, 25 Jun 2020 08:45:10 +0700 schrieb John B.
:

On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 21:30:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


It's my understanding that Idaho's law (bikes need only yield at stop
signs) actually adds safety. It's a bit tricky to lobby for that law,
though. Many politicians see it as a pathway to anarchy.

I suspect that not requiring cyclists to stop at stop signs and red
lights will probably encourage a certain percentage of riders to
believe that they never need to stop at all and will likely increase
bicycle accidents.

Thats the textbook argument. I don't buy it. There already is a
certain percentage of riders who do so, whatever the actual rule say.
The majority of these people just continue the behaviour they trained
for on segregated bicycle facilities, where chaos reigns. A better
rule, which isn't as obviously made for cars at least has the advantage
of being better explainable.

At the start of today's ride, I came to a four way stop sign just ahead
of a car to my right. I could have done a quick quasi-stop, but my wife
and our friend were a bit behind me, so instead I put my foot down and
waved a motorist through. He waved a thank you.

I hadn't noticed that not far behind him was one of our village cops!
I'm sure he saw the whole thing, and I'm sure it enhanced my reputation
for competence.

So?

--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

This happens on most of my rides. Nothing special just polite behavior. Enhancing ones reputation for competence? Give me a break.

If you never attempt to achieve anything for bicyclists, you don't need
a reputation for competence. You can just let others do the work.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 4:05:21 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/28/2020 8:11 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

This happens on most of my rides. Nothing special just polite behavior. Enhancing ones reputation for competence? Give me a break.

If you never attempt to achieve anything for bicyclists, you don't need
a reputation for competence. You can just let others do the work.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Come on, Krygowski. Be reasonable. We appreciate that time weighs heavily on you in your retirement. But we're fed up with you "doing something for cycling". Your bragging would make us fed up even if were competent. But you aren't competent. The public relations you do are counterproductive. We'd like you to choose someone else to work for, okay? Think of all those pedestrians you could put in helmets, for their own good! Think of all those motorists you could teach to take the middle lane!

Andre Jute
Sincerely

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 5:05:21 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/28/2020 8:11 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 12:08:03 AM UTC+2, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:11:35 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:

On 6/25/2020 1:04 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Thu, 25 Jun 2020 08:45:10 +0700 schrieb John B.
:

On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 21:30:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:


It's my understanding that Idaho's law (bikes need only yield at stop
signs) actually adds safety. It's a bit tricky to lobby for that law,
though. Many politicians see it as a pathway to anarchy.

I suspect that not requiring cyclists to stop at stop signs and red
lights will probably encourage a certain percentage of riders to
believe that they never need to stop at all and will likely increase
bicycle accidents.

Thats the textbook argument. I don't buy it. There already is a
certain percentage of riders who do so, whatever the actual rule say..
The majority of these people just continue the behaviour they trained
for on segregated bicycle facilities, where chaos reigns. A better
rule, which isn't as obviously made for cars at least has the advantage
of being better explainable.

At the start of today's ride, I came to a four way stop sign just ahead
of a car to my right. I could have done a quick quasi-stop, but my wife
and our friend were a bit behind me, so instead I put my foot down and
waved a motorist through. He waved a thank you.

I hadn't noticed that not far behind him was one of our village cops!
I'm sure he saw the whole thing, and I'm sure it enhanced my reputation
for competence.

So?

--
Wir danken für die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen

This happens on most of my rides. Nothing special just polite behavior. Enhancing ones reputation for competence? Give me a break.

If you never attempt to achieve anything for bicyclists, you don't need
a reputation for competence. You can just let others do the work.


--
- Frank Krygowski

In the Netherlands the cyclists are well off. The authorities are doing a pretty good job as far as I am concerned and I'm happy to pay tax for that. If I encounter a dangerous situations like loose pavement or bushes that need to be trimmed I report that to the local authorities (special website) and in 90% it is taken care off within two weeks. We cycled in Germany today and Herr Strobl has a lot of work to do there, at least across the border in Nordrhein Westfalen. A lot of his 'Landsleute' living at the border come cycle here in the Netherlands.

Lou

Lou

On 6/28/2020 1:31 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
... come cycle here in the Netherlands.

We spent about four days in Amsterdam the year before last. The only
bikes we found to rent near our Air BnB were heavy upright Dutch bikes,
but we rode them all around the city plus out into some suburbs. We had
fun, but my wife was sometimes a bit nervous because of the crowds of
cyclists and pedestrians. The density there is amazing compared to here.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 8:02:23 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/28/2020 1:31 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
... come cycle here in the Netherlands.

We spent about four days in Amsterdam the year before last. The only
bikes we found to rent near our Air BnB were heavy upright Dutch bikes,
but we rode them all around the city plus out into some suburbs. We had
fun, but my wife was sometimes a bit nervous because of the crowds of
cyclists and pedestrians. The density there is amazing compared to here.

--
- Frank Krygowski

I mentioned it before cycling in Amsterdam is not typical for cycling in The Netherlands. You should have left Amsterdam and go into the countryside and small villages. I would not cycle in Amsterdam for fun. It is a good way for sightseeing though.

Lou

On 6/28/2020 2:29 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 8:02:23 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/28/2020 1:31 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
... come cycle here in the Netherlands.

We spent about four days in Amsterdam the year before last. The only
bikes we found to rent near our Air BnB were heavy upright Dutch bikes,
but we rode them all around the city plus out into some suburbs. We had
fun, but my wife was sometimes a bit nervous because of the crowds of
cyclists and pedestrians. The density there is amazing compared to here.

--
- Frank Krygowski

I mentioned it before cycling in Amsterdam is not typical for cycling in The Netherlands. You should have left Amsterdam and go into the countryside and small villages.

We actually tried that, but failed. Our BnB was one floor below the
apartment of this book's author:
https://www.amazon.com/Amsterdam-Rid...900/ref=sr_1_1
and we tried to do Route 7, out northeast of the city center. But my
navigation skills failed me. We were on some bike path that left the
road, eventually took us into some sort of apartment complex and seemed
to give no way out. I could have used a Garmin.

I would not cycle in Amsterdam for fun. It is a good way for sightseeing though.

The sightseeing was very pleasant. I love old architecture. In the U.S.,
most things older than 50 years seem to get torn down.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Am Sun, 28 Jun 2020 10:31:13 -0700 (PDT) schrieb Lou Holtman
:

n the Netherlands the cyclists are well off. The
authorities are doing a pretty good job as far as I am
concerned and I'm happy to pay tax for that. If I encounter
a dangerous situations like loose pavement or bushes that
need to be trimmed I report that to the local authorities
(special website) and in 90% it is taken care off within two
weeks. We cycled in Germany today and Herr Strobl has a lot
of work to do there, at least across the border in Nordrhein
Westfalen. A lot of his 'Landsleute' living at the border
come cycle here in the Netherlands.

The Netherlands foremost are a flat and tiny country, essentially a
small stripe of shore of the north sea. This is obviously a good
opportunity to cycle on paths along coasts and canals that were
originally used for a different purpose, using Dutch style biycles that
are resistant to salt and sand.

Unfortunately, that model doesn't scale, because it depends on those
very circumstances. In addition, it depends on busybodies and
enthusiasts who report deficiencies to the administration. This doesn't
scale, either. Having been a fan of Dutch style infrastructure myself,
about 30 years ago, I have first hand experience.

When my children were of the right age, we often went on vacation in the
flat part of Germany and in the Netherlands where we cycled. It was fun,
as long as it lasted. I didn't care about the strange fact that most
rentable bicycles didn't even have a front brake, because, well, young
children don't pedal that fast on sandy paths. A coaster brake as the
only brake is good enough. Later, I even bought a Dutch style bicycle, a
Sparta Cornwall*), using it for riding to work for a while. After
ruining two forks and two hub gears, a Pentasport and a Super-7, I gave
up. The Rhine valley unfortunately isn't flat enough for that kind of
bicycle. Most parts of Europe aren't. Or perhaps I've grown too strong.
Or perhaps both.

Anyway, at that time I was a fan of the Dutch model and so let myself be
persuaded by the chairman of the district association and then Federal
Chairman of the General German Bicycle Club (ADFC) to work as a
consultant for traffic issues on the handling of complaints from members
and to work together with the administration for this and for the
general traffic planning.

During that time I learnt a lot about how that works. For example, I
learned that such organisations are being outvoted by families with
young children and by pensioners, all of whom do not want to travel
quickly or during peak hours. They mostly can't, don't want and don't
have to. In fact, this club was not a representation of interests, but
a tourism association, in which the transport policy served only to win
members, a fig leaf, at best.

When my children and I had grown out of this phase, cycled faster,
further and with suitable bicycles, I noticed that most of the people I
was dealing with at that time had long since switched to other means of
transport, mostly to the car. I then gave up this role and later also
left the club, after I noticed that the clubs board had systematically
shunted active people who were more attached to vehicular cycling or at
least not exclusively to the seggration model.

I think Mr. Holtman advertisement for cycling holidays in the
Netherlands speaks for itself. As far as I'm concerned, I've spent my
whole life riding my bike to work, learning how to ride a bike through
heavy traffic and in hilly terrain. For the holidays we preferred
unspoiled roads in rural and hilly regions of France and Italy. Now I'm
having fun riding on nearby country roads far and fast.

And that's why I don't like the Dutch model. It's not even suitable for
children, at least not suitable to turn them into competent cyclists.
It's a nice playground, though, for a while.


*) https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/1992/til2.jpg

My Sparta Cornwall and one of my sons on his tiny bicyle, 1992.

After fifty kilometers of cycling in the Emsland, we finally go to the
beach. The holiday photo is from 1992.




--
Thank you for observing all safety precautions