Lycra-clad cycling psychos kill 77-year-old

"Arthur Brain" wrote in message
oups.com...
Howard wrote:
On Aug 8, 10:45 am, Arthur Brain wrote:

I would say that car drivers driving through a red light is a very
rare occurrence, but I think we all know that cyclists flout the rules
of the road with gay abandon - sometimes with tragic results.

I'm afraid you must be using some dictionary which is not English to define
your words. On my 6 mile commute I see dozens of drivers going through red
lights every day. I've no reason to believe that this is in any way
unusual, and, indeed, my experience in other places in the UK confirms it.
Drivers going through red lights isn't "rare". It's very common.

Arthur Brain wrote:

I would say that car drivers driving through a red light is a very
rare occurrence, but I think we all know that cyclists flout the rules
of the road with gay abandon - sometimes with tragic results.

I would say that you don't know what you are talking
about. This case is tragic, but far more people are killed
by motorists acting illegally, than cyclists.

From
http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residen...ightrunner.htm

"One in ten car drivers risked a serious accident or
injury to themselves, other road users and pedestrians by
driving through a traffic light when it had clearly been
red for over three seconds.
Two in ten took a chance on a last minute amber signal.
In Glasgow up to one in four cyclists seemed to have no
regard for the existence of traffic lights."

i.e. 20% of car drivers amber gamble, with 25% of cyclists
ignoring them.

From
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/new...tc_v_rac.shtml

“85% of drivers admit to speeding at least some of the time"

There is also that wonderful statistic in the British
press in the last few months that more female cyclists get
killed at traffic lights in London because they don't jump
the red.

Also a cyclist is more likely to be killed by a car
jumping a red traffic light, than when he jumps a light
and the car goes through on the green.


Just to clarify, I don't jump lights.

Phil Allison wrote:
"Martin Dann"

A quick search of the web shows that this story is over four months old.


** No - the story is about what happened in court a few hours ago.

My apologies. The OP provided little detail, some of which
was ambiguous. A quick search brought up detail from the
inquest into the death, which was dated 30th March.

Many people like me who live on the top half of the planet
may not have heard of this case before today.

On Aug 8, 6:12 pm, Arthur Brain wrote:
Howard wrote:

I wonder just how many threads could be started on here each day about
speeding, red-light running, drunken, drugged, mobile phone using and
other wise anti-social drivers who have killed someone and escaped
with fine if people started scanning the world's media for examples?

I would say that car drivers driving through a red light is a very
rare occurrence, but I think we all know that cyclists flout the rules
of the road with gay abandon - sometimes with tragic results.

In reality red-light running by motorists is very common. According to
the 'This is London' paper of 11/07/04, a national survey showed that
45% of drivers in London illegally run a red light by virtue of
jumping a red light before it actually turns green. The national
figure was 28%. According to the BBC on-line news of Monday, 11
October, 2004 although there are under 300 red light cameras in
London, they catch over 10,000 red light jumping motorists a month-
that is those who jump a light which has been red for several seconds
or more.

In June 2003 the RAC foundation published the results of a survey it
conducted of red light jumping in London and Glasgow. This survey is
often quoted as evidence that cyclists jump red lights far more than
motorists, but the survey, done as it was by a motoring group, seems
to have intentionally played down the level of red light jumping by
motorists whilst playing up the incidence of red light jumping by
cyclists.

Firstly, the figures the RACF quoted for cyclists related to the
highest observed figures, stating for example that at some sites in
London 'up to' half of all cyclists jumped a red light. Such a figure
is clearly unacceptable, but at most sites RLJ's by cyclists were
actually far fewer.

In comparison the figures quoted for motorists were overall averages,
with the RACF stating that 1 in 10 of all London motorists jumped a
red light, and 1 in 5 of all buses.

The RACF also defined red light jumping as crossing against a signal
that had been red for 3 or more seconds. Crossing against a red that
had been red for less time was recorded as a 'late amber'! It doesn't
take a genius to realise that most red light jumping by motorists is
done in the few seconds after a light has gone red, something which
potentially brings them into conflict with all those 'amber gamblers'.
(See above). Despite this the RACF didn't record such red light
running by motorists as being red light running at all! When the
figures for all red light jumping by motorists is combined the figure
was 3 in 10 of all London motorists, a higher level of offending that
for cyclists in Glasgow.

Most red light running by cyclists is against a light which may have
been red for several seconds, but is usually done when the junction is
clear. Transport for London did a study of cyclist fatalities at
signal-controlled junctions last year and concluded that it is often
safer for cyclists to jump a red light in this way then to stop and be
caught up in the 'Traffic light GP' or be crushed by a left turning
HGV whose driver has not checked their nearside properly.

Of course, jumping red lights is just one offence that motorists
habitually commit, thereby putting others at risk. Just look at the
incidence of speeding, driving whilst using a mobile and so on!

"Howard" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 8, 10:45 am, Arthur Brain wrote:
By Emily Power

August 08, 2007 02:39pm
Article from: Herald Sun

A MAGISTRATE who today fined a cyclist who ran a red light in an
incident that killed an elderly pedestrian admitted it was a
"pathetic" penalty.

William-Raisin Shaw, 30, of St Kilda, pleaded guilty in Melbourne
Magistrates Court to a charge of failing to stop at a red light.


I wonder just how many threads could be started on here each day about
speeding, red-light running, drunken, drugged, mobile phone using and
other wise anti-social drivers who have killed someone and escaped
with fine if people started scanning the world's media for examples?

Probably heaps. The interesting thing is that this cyclist got fined $700
for an action that caused the death of a person, if he had been driving a
car at the time he would have faced much stronger penalties.

This is one of many "accidents"on the Hell ride which I have participated in
but stopped because of the blatant disregard for the road laws by some
riders. The call of "rolling rolling" comes up and you have a large group of
cyclist deliberately running red lights.

dechucka wrote:

Probably heaps. The interesting thing is that this cyclist got fined $700
for an action that caused the death of a person, if he had been driving a
car at the time he would have faced much stronger penalties.

700AU$ = 296.61UKP

Robert Harris was fined 180UKP (approx 425AU$) for killing
four cyclists in north Wales recently.

Car drivers do not suffer worse penalties.

This is one of many "accidents"on the Hell ride which I have participated in
but stopped because of the blatant disregard for the road laws by some
riders. The call of "rolling rolling" comes up and you have a large group of
cyclist deliberately running red lights.

This was not an accident. It was a collision waiting to
happen. I am glad you no longer take part.

On 8 ago, 05:45, Arthur Brain wrote:
By Emily Power

August 08, 2007 02:39pm
Article from: Herald Sun

A MAGISTRATE who today fined a cyclist who ran a red light in an
incident that killed an elderly pedestrian admitted it was a
"pathetic" penalty.

William-Raisin Shaw, 30, of St Kilda, pleaded guilty in Melbourne
Magistrates Court to a charge of failing to stop at a red light.

A pack of cyclists taking part in a Hell Ride slammed into 77-year-old
James Gould as he crossed Beach Rd at Mentone on a green signal on
August 26 last year.

The Hell Ride is an informal Saturday morning ride from Black Rock to
Mt Eliza and back.

Defence lawyer Michael Sharpley said Raisin-Shaw found himself in the
middle of a pack, some who yelled "rolling, rolling" to indicate their
intention to run the red light.

"One must not underestimate group dynamics and group pressure," Mr
Sharpley said.

At an inquest into Mr Gould's death, coroner Graeme Johnstone said the
Hell Ride was not suitable for suburban streets or main roads. He
highlighted a police submission which said the Hell Ride had
"degenerated into a disorganised race''.

Arthur Brain suffers from a very low IQ. The most important and
obvious aspect missing from his abilities is a feeling for statistical
analysis - probability theory etc...
I know that humans are of all sorts of lives and deserve the right to
live, But Arthur Brain is more like, well, I can't think of an animal
because it would insult the species. He is basically a fluoridated
mentally diabled human being unfortunately for the rest of us wqho are
also human beings. What a shame Arthur that with you given blessing as
human being you act like such a moron and waste it.

On 8 ago, 05:45, Arthur Brain wrote:
By Emily Power

August 08, 2007 02:39pm
Article from: Herald Sun

A MAGISTRATE who today fined a cyclist who ran a red light in an
incident that killed an elderly pedestrian admitted it was a
"pathetic" penalty.

William-Raisin Shaw, 30, of St Kilda, pleaded guilty in Melbourne
Magistrates Court to a charge of failing to stop at a red light.

A pack of cyclists taking part in a Hell Ride slammed into 77-year-old
James Gould as he crossed Beach Rd at Mentone on a green signal on
August 26 last year.

The Hell Ride is an informal Saturday morning ride from Black Rock to
Mt Eliza and back.

Defence lawyer Michael Sharpley said Raisin-Shaw found himself in the
middle of a pack, some who yelled "rolling, rolling" to indicate their
intention to run the red light.

"One must not underestimate group dynamics and group pressure," Mr
Sharpley said.

At an inquest into Mr Gould's death, coroner Graeme Johnstone said the
Hell Ride was not suitable for suburban streets or main roads. He
highlighted a police submission which said the Hell Ride had
"degenerated into a disorganised race''.

Imagine Arthur Brain was the Prime Minister? You'd have to organise a
black op to assassinate him. He is an embarassment to our country. An
utter moron - he hates blacks because he thinks they are crime prone
and claims to have the evidence. lol.

Ace wrote:
On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 21:52:34 GMT, Martin Dann
wrote:

Robert Harris was fined 180UKP (approx 425AU$) for killing
four cyclists in north Wales recently.

Oh what rubbish. It's been rehashed ad infinitum here (on URC at
least); the facts are that he was not found to be at fault in the
deaths of the cyclists - the fine was for something completely
unrelated.

The only reason he was not found to be at fault, was like
the Australian case, he was not tried for dangerous
driving/cycling.

To quote the inquest:
"The evidence shows classic signs that Robert Harris was
driving without due care and attention and to his credit
he admitted his responsibility in going too fast."

Harris was fined for driving with bald tyres, similar to
the Australian fined for running the red light.

"Martin Dann" wrote in message
...
dechucka wrote:

Probably heaps. The interesting thing is that this cyclist got fined $700
for an action that caused the death of a person, if he had been driving a
car at the time he would have faced much stronger penalties.

700AU$ = 296.61UKP

Robert Harris was fined 180UKP (approx 425AU$) for killing four cyclists
in north Wales recently.

Car drivers do not suffer worse penalties.

well they do here ( which is probably the danger of intercountry debates on
a topic like this ) and my understanding of the Harris case tis that
everybody thinks the CPS and police stuffed it up


This is one of many "accidents"on the Hell ride which I have participated
in but stopped because of the blatant disregard for the road laws by some
riders. The call of "rolling rolling" comes up and you have a large group
of cyclist deliberately running red lights.

This was not an accident. It was a collision waiting to happen. I am glad
you no longer take part.

Which is why I felt a $700 fine was ridiculous