Comparing relative impacts of various trail user groups--No Surprise,Hikers and Equestrians Cause More Trail Damage than Mountain Bikers

On May 31, 12:51 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 08:48:29 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero



wrote:
On May 29, 10:50 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:27:24 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

"Real", as in supporting your position? Or "real" as in actual
scientific research?

If you mean the latter, it's already been provided, on numerous
occasions

The mountain biker-authors misstated their own results, in
order to make mountain biking appear less harmful.

Since nowhere do the authors make any claims as to whether or not they
actually own any bikes whatsoever, I guess you took the "make it up"
option.

No, I just asked them. DUH!

Without proof, I'll just consider that yet another in a long line of
stuff you just made up.

E.P.

On Sat, 31 May 2008 12:02:56 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero
wrote:

On May 31, 12:51 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 08:48:29 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero



wrote:
On May 29, 10:50 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:27:24 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

"Real", as in supporting your position? Or "real" as in actual
scientific research?

If you mean the latter, it's already been provided, on numerous
occasions

The mountain biker-authors misstated their own results, in
order to make mountain biking appear less harmful.

Since nowhere do the authors make any claims as to whether or not they
actually own any bikes whatsoever, I guess you took the "make it up"
option.

No, I just asked them. DUH!

Without proof, I'll just consider that yet another in a long line of
stuff you just made up.

Whatever. Ask them yourself! I know you won't, because you don't want
to admit the truth.

E.P.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On May 31, 3:59 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 12:02:56 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero



wrote:
On May 31, 12:51 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 08:48:29 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 29, 10:50 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:27:24 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

"Real", as in supporting your position? Or "real" as in actual
scientific research?

If you mean the latter, it's already been provided, on numerous
occasions

The mountain biker-authors misstated their own results, in
order to make mountain biking appear less harmful.

Since nowhere do the authors make any claims as to whether or not they
actually own any bikes whatsoever, I guess you took the "make it up"
option.

No, I just asked them. DUH!

Without proof, I'll just consider that yet another in a long line of
stuff you just made up.

Whatever.

Exactly. More stuff you just made up. I knew you'd never be able to
provide proof of your blatantly-false and ridiculous claim, because
you just made it up on the spot. You are truly LOL funny.

E.P.

On Sat, 31 May 2008 18:32:05 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero
wrote:

On May 31, 3:59 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 12:02:56 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero



wrote:
On May 31, 12:51 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 08:48:29 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 29, 10:50 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:27:24 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

"Real", as in supporting your position? Or "real" as in actual
scientific research?

If you mean the latter, it's already been provided, on numerous
occasions

The mountain biker-authors misstated their own results, in
order to make mountain biking appear less harmful.

Since nowhere do the authors make any claims as to whether or not they
actually own any bikes whatsoever, I guess you took the "make it up"
option.

No, I just asked them. DUH!

Without proof, I'll just consider that yet another in a long line of
stuff you just made up.

Whatever.

Exactly. More stuff you just made up. I knew you'd never be able to
provide proof of your blatantly-false and ridiculous claim, because
you just made it up on the spot. You are truly LOL funny.

It's okay. I know that mountain bikers can't understand people who
tell the truth, because they wouldn't be caught dead doing it.

E.P.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On May 31, 9:37 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 18:32:05 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero



wrote:
On May 31, 3:59 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 12:02:56 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 31, 12:51 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 08:48:29 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 29, 10:50 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:27:24 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

"Real", as in supporting your position? Or "real" as in actual
scientific research?

If you mean the latter, it's already been provided, on numerous
occasions

The mountain biker-authors misstated their own results, in
order to make mountain biking appear less harmful.

Since nowhere do the authors make any claims as to whether or not they
actually own any bikes whatsoever, I guess you took the "make it up"
option.

No, I just asked them. DUH!

Without proof, I'll just consider that yet another in a long line of
stuff you just made up.

Whatever.

Exactly. More stuff you just made up. I knew you'd never be able to
provide proof of your blatantly-false and ridiculous claim, because
you just made it up on the spot. You are truly LOL funny.

It's okay.

Since when is it OK to make up stuff, Mike? It's not OK. The "fact"
that those authors are MTBers is a "fact" you invented, made up,
fabricated. Lying is wrong, Mike. You should be ashamed of yourself.

E.P.

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 00:48:47 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero
wrote:

On May 31, 9:37 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 18:32:05 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero



wrote:
On May 31, 3:59 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 12:02:56 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 31, 12:51 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 08:48:29 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 29, 10:50 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:27:24 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

"Real", as in supporting your position? Or "real" as in actual
scientific research?

If you mean the latter, it's already been provided, on numerous
occasions

The mountain biker-authors misstated their own results, in
order to make mountain biking appear less harmful.

Since nowhere do the authors make any claims as to whether or not they
actually own any bikes whatsoever, I guess you took the "make it up"
option.

No, I just asked them. DUH!

Without proof, I'll just consider that yet another in a long line of
stuff you just made up.

Whatever.

Exactly. More stuff you just made up. I knew you'd never be able to
provide proof of your blatantly-false and ridiculous claim, because
you just made it up on the spot. You are truly LOL funny.

It's okay.

Since when is it OK to make up stuff, Mike? It's not OK. The "fact"
that those authors are MTBers is a "fact" you invented, made up,
fabricated. Lying is wrong, Mike. You should be ashamed of yourself.

YOU are the liar. Everything I said is true, and EASILY VERIFIABLE by
anyone who cares to check, which obviously doesn't include you.

E.P.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Jun 1, 10:40 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 00:48:47 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero



wrote:
On May 31, 9:37 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 18:32:05 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 31, 3:59 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 12:02:56 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 31, 12:51 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 08:48:29 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 29, 10:50 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:27:24 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

"Real", as in supporting your position? Or "real" as in actual
scientific research?

If you mean the latter, it's already been provided, on numerous
occasions

The mountain biker-authors misstated their own results, in
order to make mountain biking appear less harmful.

Since nowhere do the authors make any claims as to whether or not they
actually own any bikes whatsoever, I guess you took the "make it up"
option.

No, I just asked them. DUH!

Without proof, I'll just consider that yet another in a long line of
stuff you just made up.

Whatever.

Exactly. More stuff you just made up. I knew you'd never be able to
provide proof of your blatantly-false and ridiculous claim, because
you just made it up on the spot. You are truly LOL funny.

It's okay.

Since when is it OK to make up stuff, Mike? It's not OK. The "fact"
that those authors are MTBers is a "fact" you invented, made up,
fabricated. Lying is wrong, Mike. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Everything I said is true...

A claim for which you provide no proof. Prove that even one of those
authors even owns a bike, any bike, and I'll be happy to continue the
discussion. Otherwise, you're just stalling and trying to evade the
real truth - that you just plain made it up.

E.P.

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 14:34:06 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero
wrote:

On Jun 1, 10:40 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 00:48:47 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero



wrote:
On May 31, 9:37 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 18:32:05 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 31, 3:59 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 12:02:56 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 31, 12:51 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 08:48:29 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 29, 10:50 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:27:24 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

"Real", as in supporting your position? Or "real" as in actual
scientific research?

If you mean the latter, it's already been provided, on numerous
occasions

The mountain biker-authors misstated their own results, in
order to make mountain biking appear less harmful.

Since nowhere do the authors make any claims as to whether or not they
actually own any bikes whatsoever, I guess you took the "make it up"
option.

No, I just asked them. DUH!

Without proof, I'll just consider that yet another in a long line of
stuff you just made up.

Whatever.

Exactly. More stuff you just made up. I knew you'd never be able to
provide proof of your blatantly-false and ridiculous claim, because
you just made it up on the spot. You are truly LOL funny.

It's okay.

Since when is it OK to make up stuff, Mike? It's not OK. The "fact"
that those authors are MTBers is a "fact" you invented, made up,
fabricated. Lying is wrong, Mike. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Everything I said is true...

A claim for which you provide no proof. Prove that even one of those
authors even owns a bike, any bike, and I'll be happy to continue the
discussion. Otherwise, you're just stalling and trying to evade the
real truth - that you just plain made it up.

Thanks for demonstrating that mountain bikers don't care about the
truth. You should do your own research, so you don't have to look like
the fool you are.

E.P.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Jun 2, 7:52*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 14:34:06 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero





wrote:
On Jun 1, 10:40 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 00:48:47 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 31, 9:37 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 18:32:05 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 31, 3:59 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 12:02:56 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 31, 12:51 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 08:48:29 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 29, 10:50 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:27:24 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

"Real", as in supporting your position? *Or "real" as in actual
scientific research?

If you mean the latter, it's already been provided, on numerous
occasions

*The mountain biker-authors misstated their own results, in
order to make mountain biking appear less harmful.

Since nowhere do the authors make any claims as to whether or not they
actually own any bikes whatsoever, *I guess you took the "make it up"
option.

No, I just asked them. DUH!

Without proof, I'll just consider that yet another in a long line of
stuff you just made up.

Whatever.

Exactly. *More stuff you just made up. *I knew you'd never be able to
provide proof of your blatantly-false and ridiculous claim, because
you just made it up on the spot. *You are truly LOL funny.

It's okay.

Since when is it OK to make up stuff, Mike? *It's not OK. *The "fact"
that those authors are MTBers is a "fact" you invented, made up,
fabricated. *Lying is wrong, Mike. *You should be ashamed of yourself.

Everything I said is true...

A claim for which you provide no proof. *Prove that even one of those
authors even owns a bike, any bike, and I'll be happy to continue the
discussion. *Otherwise, you're just stalling and trying to evade the
real truth - that you just plain made it up.

You should do your own research...

I did, and nowhere in any of the research you provided was there even
a single mention of whether or not the authors even owned a bike of
any kind.

Remember, we're talking about the actual researchers, not the guy that
did the review article.

Which is why I used that term originally.

So prove it, Mike. Prove that any of those researchers owns a bike.

Or make something else up, or change the subject. Like you always do
when someone smarter than you calls you on your BS.

E.P.

On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 10:51:43 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero
wrote:

On Jun 2, 7:52*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 14:34:06 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero





wrote:
On Jun 1, 10:40 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 00:48:47 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 31, 9:37 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 18:32:05 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 31, 3:59 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 12:02:56 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 31, 12:51 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 08:48:29 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

wrote:
On May 29, 10:50 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:27:24 -0700 (PDT), Ed Pirrero

"Real", as in supporting your position? *Or "real" as in actual
scientific research?

If you mean the latter, it's already been provided, on numerous
occasions

*The mountain biker-authors misstated their own results, in
order to make mountain biking appear less harmful.

Since nowhere do the authors make any claims as to whether or not they
actually own any bikes whatsoever, *I guess you took the "make it up"
option.

No, I just asked them. DUH!

Without proof, I'll just consider that yet another in a long line of
stuff you just made up.

Whatever.

Exactly. *More stuff you just made up. *I knew you'd never be able to
provide proof of your blatantly-false and ridiculous claim, because
you just made it up on the spot. *You are truly LOL funny.

It's okay.

Since when is it OK to make up stuff, Mike? *It's not OK. *The "fact"
that those authors are MTBers is a "fact" you invented, made up,
fabricated. *Lying is wrong, Mike. *You should be ashamed of yourself.

Everything I said is true...

A claim for which you provide no proof. *Prove that even one of those
authors even owns a bike, any bike, and I'll be happy to continue the
discussion. *Otherwise, you're just stalling and trying to evade the
real truth - that you just plain made it up.

You should do your own research...

I did, and nowhere in any of the research you provided was there even
a single mention of whether or not the authors even owned a bike of
any kind.

But I provided their email addresses, so you could ask them
themselves. AND DID YOU? OF COURSE NOT, because you don't really waht
the truth.

Remember, we're talking about the actual researchers, not the guy that
did the review article.

Which is why I used that term originally.

So prove it, Mike. Prove that any of those researchers owns a bike.

Or make something else up, or change the subject. Like you always do
when someone smarter than you calls you on your BS.

But not smart enough to send an email?

E.P.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande