Trumped Up Charges. When is a "Race" a "Race" and what needs a permit?

http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=e5a...1-1d80108e6f39

On 11 Jul 2006 06:19:03 -0700, "bill" wrote:

http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=e5a...1-1d80108e6f39

What a disgusting dogpile of officious jerks. Who do these jerks think they
are.

"That which is not permitted is forbidden."

Ron

bill wrote:
http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=e5a...1-1d80108e6f39

-------------------------------------------
According to the article:

Police have shut down the Pequot Cyclists weekly time trial race in the
Wheeler Road area after receiving a complaint from a driver and
discovering the club never obtained the required permit for the
event....Brian Sheffer, the club member in charge of the time trials,
said the club was not aware it needed a permit. "We hold rides all
over the area in a bunch of towns, and this is the first time this has
happened," he said.

------------------------------------------

I'm not a lawyer, but it sure seems to me that they should not need a
permit!

I'm assuming that in Connecticut (as in all other states AFAIK)
cyclists have a right to use the road, and I'm assuming that there is
no specific state law banning ... what? Riding fast? Assuming the
"racers" are not exceeding the speed limit, they are doing nothing that
is not legally permissible.

As an analogy, if 15 members of the local Studebaker club decided to
meet at a drive-in in Pequot and drive their Studebakers to Hartford,
would they need a permit? No - if they don't ask to have the traffic
restricted, then from the standpoint of the law, they are just legal
vehicles traveling on the roads. It doesn't matter if the vehicles are
a bit unusual, and it doesn't matter if the club members think of it as
a club event. By law, it's just people traveling.

IIRC, time trials were the dominant (perhaps only) form of racing for
decades in England, specifically because mass-start races were
prohibited. But there's no practical way to ban time trialing. You
can't ticket a lone bicyclist just for riding "fast" - that is, 25 mph.
You can't ticket two bicyclists separated by a minute for riding
"fast." So you can't outlaw a time trial.

At least, that's how it seems to me. I'm curious about others'
opinions, and about how this will shake out.

- Frank Krygowski

In article . com,
says...

I'm not a lawyer, but it sure seems to me that they should not need a
permit!

I'm assuming that in Connecticut (as in all other states AFAIK)
cyclists have a right to use the road, and I'm assuming that there is
no specific state law banning ... what? Riding fast? Assuming the
"racers" are not exceeding the speed limit, they are doing nothing that
is not legally permissible.

It depends. If the ride is an officially sanctioned event (as it would seem to
be), CT state law may have specific regulations on it. IL state law certainly
does (625 ILCS 5/11-1514 for the morbidly curious).

Someone with better knowledge of the CT vehicle code should probably jump in
here...

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_
(_)/ (_)

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:06:35 GMT, Kristian M Zoerhoff
wrote:

It depends. If the ride is an officially sanctioned event (as it would seem to
be), CT state law may have specific regulations on it. IL state law certainly
does (625 ILCS 5/11-1514 for the morbidly curious).

In Maryland it is enough that an event effects the safe and normal
activities on a state road. You need a permit, I think through the
SHA. If they decide that you need State Police, you may end up out of
business before you start.

A time trial might manage the critical mass tactic of no organizer, no
responsible person, but I wouldn't want to be the guy with the stop
watches at the start/finish.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
In article . com,
says...

I'm not a lawyer, but it sure seems to me that they should not need a
permit!

I'm assuming that in Connecticut (as in all other states AFAIK)
cyclists have a right to use the road, and I'm assuming that there is
no specific state law banning ... what? Riding fast? Assuming the
"racers" are not exceeding the speed limit, they are doing nothing that
is not legally permissible.

It depends. If the ride is an officially sanctioned event (as it would seem to
be), CT state law may have specific regulations on it. IL state law certainly
does (625 ILCS 5/11-1514 for the morbidly curious).

Someone with better knowledge of the CT vehicle code should probably jump in

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_


When I lived in New Haven, CT our club sponsored weekly USCF sanctioned
time trials on an open road course. This went on for years and there
was never a problem.

There wwere also weekly group rides that sometimes had over 100 riders
and as they were "unofficial races" they caused much more traffic
disruption than the TT's. But no one sponsored them so it really was
nothing more than a large group of individual cyclists.

Cyclists are safe and normal users of the road. And cars disrupt my
safe and normal bicycling all the time.

Sounds arbitrary and similar to the NYC and LA Critical Mass
crackdowns, as well as the Alameda County (California) permit process.
In other words it is possibly illegal to require a permit, but requires
a court action to overturn any police chief decision. You may have
better luck with a sit-down meeting with the police to figure out how
they would like you to proceed safely and try and work together. That
approach has worked on occasion with the Saturday morning ride in Palos
Verdes, CA.


Curtis L. Russell wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:06:35 GMT, Kristian M Zoerhoff
wrote:

It depends. If the ride is an officially sanctioned event (as it would seem to
be), CT state law may have specific regulations on it. IL state law certainly
does (625 ILCS 5/11-1514 for the morbidly curious).

In Maryland it is enough that an event effects the safe and normal
activities on a state road. You need a permit, I think through the
SHA. If they decide that you need State Police, you may end up out of
business before you start.

A time trial might manage the critical mass tactic of no organizer, no
responsible person, but I wouldn't want to be the guy with the stop
watches at the start/finish.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

As an analogy, if 15 members of the local Studebaker club decided to
meet at a drive-in in Pequot and drive their Studebakers to Hartford,
would they need a permit? No - if they don't ask to have the traffic
restricted, then from the standpoint of the law, they are just legal
vehicles traveling on the roads. It doesn't matter if the vehicles are
a bit unusual, and it doesn't matter if the club members think of it as
a club event. By law, it's just people traveling.



If the cyclists decide to ride as fast as they can at 30 second
intervals, then no, it isn't necessarily a race. But they are then
obligated to obey all relevant traffic laws. The article mentions 4
right turns, but doesn't tell us whether there are stop signs or
lights. If there aren't, then it seems to me that they can do this
ride at top speed without breaking any laws, and the police would have
no reason to interfere. But if there are lights or stop signs, then
the police would be justified in stepping in - presumably the riders
are not coming to a full stop before making their turns. (I'll bet any
amount they are not.) The analogy of the Studebakers falls apart if
they decide to see who can get to Hartford fastest, and then don't obey
the laws.

Mort

On 11 Jul 2006 17:30:52 -0700, "mort" wrote:


As an analogy, if 15 members of the local Studebaker club decided to
meet at a drive-in in Pequot and drive their Studebakers to Hartford,
would they need a permit? No - if they don't ask to have the traffic
restricted, then from the standpoint of the law, they are just legal
vehicles traveling on the roads. It doesn't matter if the vehicles are
a bit unusual, and it doesn't matter if the club members think of it as
a club event. By law, it's just people traveling.



If the cyclists decide to ride as fast as they can at 30 second
intervals, then no, it isn't necessarily a race. But they are then
obligated to obey all relevant traffic laws. The article mentions 4
right turns, but doesn't tell us whether there are stop signs or
lights. If there aren't, then it seems to me that they can do this
ride at top speed without breaking any laws, and the police would have
no reason to interfere. But if there are lights or stop signs, then
the police would be justified in stepping in - presumably the riders
are not coming to a full stop before making their turns. (I'll bet any
amount they are not.) The analogy of the Studebakers falls apart if
they decide to see who can get to Hartford fastest, and then don't obey
the laws.

Or if the Barney Fife Brigade declares that what is actually taking place is a
parade without a permit.

"For the law to be respected the law must be respectable."
Frederic Bastiat

Ron

If the cyclists decide to ride as fast as they can at 30 second
intervals, then no, it isn't necessarily a race. But they are then
obligated to obey all relevant traffic laws. The article mentions 4
right turns, but doesn't tell us whether there are stop signs or
lights. If there aren't, then it seems to me that they can do this
ride at top speed without breaking any laws, and the police would have
no reason to interfere. But if there are lights or stop signs, then
the police would be justified in stepping in - presumably the riders
are not coming to a full stop before making their turns. (I'll bet any
amount they are not.) The analogy of the Studebakers falls apart if
they decide to see who can get to Hartford fastest, and then don't obey
the laws.

Or if the Barney Fife Brigade declares that what is actually taking place is a
parade without a permit.

At least in Alameda Country, California, one of the prerequisites for
something to be termed a "parade" is that traffic laws must be suspended.



Chris Neary


"We will teach our twisted speech to the young believers"
-- The Clash