So we bought the tandem

Cathy Kearns wrote:


"Benjamin Lewis" wrote in message
...
David Kerber wrote:

I don't have a tandem, but from the reading I've done, often the stoker
never even puts their feet down once they are on the route.

Any reason you can't have a captain who never puts his feet down
instead?

The captain sits close to the middle of the bike. The stoker is above
the back wheel, about 5 feet from the front wheel. Pick up a pen. Is it
easy to balance in the middle, or from the end?

The stoker's handlebars are much closer to the centre of the bicycle than
the captain's, however. Doesn't the bike get held up by the handlebars, at
least in part, while the other rider is mounting? Again, I've never tried
it myself, but I would have expected it to be *easier* for the stoker to
hold up the bike for this reason.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Anthony's Law of Force:
Don't force it; get a larger hammer.

Cathy Kearns wrote:

"Benjamin Lewis" wrote in message

Well, if everyone is doing what they prefer, it's hard to argue But if
it were me, I'd suggest at least trying out a role-reversal on some quiet
streets. At worst, one or both of you don't like it, but there's a chance
you'll be pleasantly surprised!

Tandems come in sizes, just like bikes. My captain (husband) is 6 foot
tall. I'm 5'3. Just as I'm too small to ride his regular bike, I'm too
small
to sit in the front on our tandem. Just as he is too tall to comfortable
ride
my regular bike he would find my peddles much too close. Yes they are
somewhat adjustable, but not for a 9 inch height difference.

Yes, I'd thought of that angle also after I posted. Our difference is
eleven inches. She's 5'2", I'm 6'1".

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
The older a man gets, the farther he had to walk to school as a boy.

In article , says...
David Kerber wrote:

I don't have a tandem, but from the reading I've done, often the stoker
never even puts their feet down once they are on the route.

Any reason you can't have a captain who never puts his feet down instead?

I don't know; I haven't ridden a tandem since I was in about 4th grade.

--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

In article , says...
Cathy Kearns wrote:


"Benjamin Lewis" wrote in message
...
David Kerber wrote:

I don't have a tandem, but from the reading I've done, often the stoker
never even puts their feet down once they are on the route.

Any reason you can't have a captain who never puts his feet down
instead?

The captain sits close to the middle of the bike. The stoker is above
the back wheel, about 5 feet from the front wheel. Pick up a pen. Is it
easy to balance in the middle, or from the end?

The stoker's handlebars are much closer to the centre of the bicycle than
the captain's, however. Doesn't the bike get held up by the handlebars, at
least in part, while the other rider is mounting? Again, I've never tried
it myself, but I would have expected it to be *easier* for the stoker to
hold up the bike for this reason.

It's much easier to keep the bike stable if you can control the front
wheel (keep it from flopping).


--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

"Jacques Moser" wrote:

Is the husband *always* captain ? I understand it conforms to the usage of
the male more often driving the car or assuming (apparent) leadership,...

Actually, most of the times a couple charge resolutely into a comical,
foolhardy situation as if they know what they are doing...the man is
steering.

Chalo

"Benjamin Lewis" wrote in message
...
Cathy Kearns wrote:

Okay, picture a standard tandem, the handle bars for steering are in
the front. Now imagine the person in the back holding up the bike
while the handle bars in front are free to move. Before the person
in front even moves toward the bike the bike is unstable. Now add
to that the person in front, how exactly would they mount the bike?
They can't throw their leg over the back without kicking the guy
holding up the bike, even if they are smaller.

Method I: captain mounts normally, but keeps feet on ground. Stoker does
same. Captain puts feet on pedals while stoker holds bike upright.
Stoker
places foot on pedal, both start pedaling and stoker clips other foot in.

Method II: stoker mounts, keeps feet on ground. Captain mounts by
swinging
leg over front handlebars. Remainder as above.

Method III: similar to above, but both keep one foot on ground, on the
same
side, until ready to go.

Are there reasons why some or all of the above won't work?


With Method I I'm thinking it might work if the captain could keep
the front wheel steady while clipping in.

If you can do method II on your single I see no reason you couldn't
do it on a tandem. Have you tried clipping in one foot and throwing
your leg over the handle bars? I'm not that coordinated.

I've seen folks use method III, but they were much more experienced
teams, as clipping in together requires a bit more coordination.
When teaching new tandem teams the local bike store used
to let teams start with each having a foot on the ground. It
was entertaining, unfortunately, it also meant more tandems were
attracted to the pole directly across the street...and didn't sell
as many folks on tandems.

It is much simpler to have the stoker on, clipped in, and ready
to go, which is why it is taught that way to inexperienced teams.
And once you are experienced, why change.

I imagine that steering might take more strength, but I wouldn't have
supposed that the change from a single would be *that* big.

The problem is the ability to hold up a bike while someone is standing
on
one peddle and throwing their weight over onto the bike. (or off the
bike.) It's helpful if the moving weight is less than the holding
weight.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. Why are the tandem-ers
throwing their weight around?

In general, when I mount a bike I tend to start with my weight on the
ground, on the left side of the bike, I clip my left foot in and swing my
right over the back of the bike. (I tend to ride my single this way too...)
My weight is moving from the left side of the bike to directly over the
bike. Dismounting works the same way, in reverse. If you tend to
mount by standing over the bike and then clipping in its not a problem.


Tandems come in sizes, just like bikes. My captain (husband) is 6 foot
tall. I'm 5'3. Just as I'm too small to ride his regular bike, I'm too
small to sit in the front on our tandem. Just as he is too tall to
comfortable ride my regular bike he would find my peddles much too
close.
Yes they are somewhat adjustable, but not for a 9 inch height
difference.

I wouldn't expect a tandem to be any more difficult to set up for a short
person on the front and a tall person at the rear than the reverse. I
grant that it would likely be a pain to switch around once you had it set
up in a given configuration, especially if it required swapping stems,
etc.

As long as it didn't require a whole new frame or something else
horrendously expensive, though, if it were me I'd go as far as, say,
swapping the stem at least once just to try it out.

Even if the seat was all the way to the frame I would not be able
to reach the pedals or the handle bars in the front. It would require
a new frame. Stock frames tend to be large/medium medium/medium
medium/small, and rarely, large/small. Ours is a large/small. If you
had a medium/medium and it fit your team you could change around.


--
Benjamin Lewis

Anthony's Law of Force:
Don't force it; get a larger hammer.

Benjamin Lewis wrote:

Is there some fundamental reason why this is the case? Does the job of
captain require much upper body strength (i.e. enough that many people
can't handle it very well)? In what circumstances is this strength
required?

There is NO comparison between the upper body strength required to
captain a tandem and to ride a "half-bike". Just riding along taking
corners at an easy pace, the difference doesn't matter much.

But climb out of the saddle or get into a situation where you really
have to move the bike around and it can be surprising how much upper
body is involved. When climbing out of the saddle at a good pace the
front tire feels like it wants to scrub sideways - odd until you get
used to it... and it take a fair amount of strength to keep the thing
pointed forward.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

I haven't had a spill in a couple of years, and then, not only do I crash
Ryan's bike up in Vancouver, but on Saturday, there was a paceline pile up
(someone a ahead of me had a mechanical, and the guy directly in front of me
and I had a crash as a result). No biggie, but I cracked my back-up helmet
(hadn't yet replaced the one cracked in Vancouver), and caused some minor
damage to the bike.

So I took it in to the shop that Saturday, showing them how I broke the
derailler cable and bent the hanger, asked them to replace the handlebar
tape as it was scraped up, and then finally asked for a general look-see to
find other damage I might have missed.

The shop guy, Chris, who I don't know that well says, well, it's a busy time
of year for the shop, but since I'm such a wonderful customer (all those
boxes of chocolates and trays of baked goods pay off), he will fix it that
day.

I get a call from Chris towards the end of the day, saying that things look
worse than he originally thought, and I am to talk to him on Sunday after a
more extensive inspection. I was singing at a couple of church services
Sunday, and then later in the day I was riding that new tandem, I forgot the
shop closes early on Sunday, and so I call right at 10:00 AM Monday when the
place opens to see what the story is.

Chris tells me that the rear cassette and the derailler is worn out, the
pulleys completely shot, and I will need the entire drive train replaced. I
will confess that upon this pronouncement I started to winge. It was not
that long ago that I had the rear cassette and the derailler replaced. Yes,
I was not quite as scrupulous with bicycle hygiene this winter as I should
have been, and have been in years past. However, I just took the bike in,
what, six weeks ago? eight weeks ago? for a tune-up, and no one said
anything then about things looking worn. I don't like to spend money on a
tune up if the reason why things are not running smoothly is because not
because of a need for adjustment, but because things are getting close to
worn enough to be replaced. Plus, I had but forgot to use the 20% coupon I
had for the tune-up, and frankly, much of my motivation of bringing in the
bike for the tune-up was the coupon...well, it went on like this for a
while. Chris very patiently listened to me, and then I realized that I was
basically whining, and I apologized. I asked how much it would cost for all
the repairs/replacements suggested. $180. I whined some more, apologized. I
asked when the work would be completed. Thursday, late, because they don't
have a Shimano 105 derailler in the shop (!!! such an exotic part !!!) and
it would have to be ordered. I whined further, again apologized, and then
authorized the work to be completed.

I get a call today, Tuesday, from Jim, the guy who I know and trust, who has
done a lot of work for me. Jim says that he had a chance to look at the
bike. No, it doesn't need the drive train replaced. Yeah, the chain is a
little worn, as is the cassette, but it's really not that bad. The pulleys
definitely need to be replaced, which he did. Then the whole thing just
needed a bit of adjustment. It won't shift like a dream, but it isn't so
bad. Also, he said that the cones were in bad shape, and so he replaced
those, and repacked the hubs. I can pick up the bike today.

I come to the shop after work. Jim's already left for the day. I stand
around and yak with the bike shop people for a bit -- Tom, who is a floor
salesman, suggests I look at some new Fuji (which they don't carry), because
he thinks the women-specific design would fit me. We talk about the recent
issue of Bicycling, and the merits of The shop slip shows the following
work: the handlebar tape replacement, the cable replacement, and some very
minimal labor charge. Total cost: about $23, including $9 in handlebar tape.
The pulleys, the cones, etc. not mentioned. The old cones are in a little
baggie, hanging from the handlebars, I guess so I can see how they were
messed up and required replacement.

[that wasn't supposed to be sent yet, sorry -- just a couple more things I
wanted to add]

I haven't had a spill in a couple of years, and then, not only do I crash
Ryan's bike up in Vancouver, but on Saturday, there was a paceline pile up
(someone a ahead of me had a mechanical, and the guy directly in front of me
and I had a crash as a result). No biggie, but I cracked my back-up helmet
(hadn't yet replaced the one cracked in Vancouver), and caused some minor
damage to the bike.

So I took it in to the shop that Saturday, showing them how I broke the
derailler cable and bent the hanger, asked them to replace the handlebar
tape as it was scraped up, and then finally asked for a general look-see to
find other damage I might have missed.

The shop guy, Chris, who I don't know that well says, well, it's a busy time
of year for the shop, but since I'm such a wonderful customer (all those
boxes of chocolates and trays of baked goods pay off), he will fix it that
day.

I get a call from Chris towards the end of the day, saying that things look
worse than he originally thought, and I am to talk to him on Sunday after a
more extensive inspection. I was singing at a couple of church services
Sunday, and then later in the day I was riding that new tandem, I forgot the
shop closes early on Sunday, and so I call right at 10:00 AM Monday when the
place opens to see what the story is.

Chris tells me that the rear cassette and the derailler is worn out, the
pulleys completely shot, and I will need the entire drive train replaced. I
will confess that upon this pronouncement I started to winge. It was not
that long ago that I had the rear cassette and the derailler replaced. Yes,
I was not quite as scrupulous with bicycle hygiene this winter as I should
have been, and have been in years past. However, I just took the bike in,
what, six weeks ago? eight weeks ago? for a tune-up, and no one said
anything then about things looking worn. I don't like to spend money on a
tune up if the reason why things are not running smoothly is because not
because of a need for adjustment, but because things are getting close to
worn enough to be replaced. Plus, I had but forgot to use the 20% coupon I
had for the tune-up, and frankly, much of my motivation of bringing in the
bike for the tune-up was the coupon...well, it went on like this for a
while. Chris very patiently listened to me, and then I realized that I was
basically whining, and I apologized. I asked how much it would cost for all
the repairs/replacements suggested. $210 or so including the handlebar tape
etc. I whined some more, apologized. I asked when the work would be
completed. Thursday, late, because they don't have a Shimano 105 derailler
in the shop (!!! such an exotic part !!!) and it would have to be ordered. I
whined further, again apologized, and then authorized the work to be
completed.

I get a call today, Tuesday, from Jim, the guy who I know and trust, who has
done a lot of work for me. Jim says that he had a chance to look at the
bike. No, it doesn't need the drive train replaced. Yeah, the chain is a
little worn, as is the cassette, but it's really not that bad. The pulleys
definitely need to be replaced, which he did. Then the whole thing just
needed a bit of adjustment. It won't shift like a dream, but I should be
okay. Also, he said that the cones were in bad shape, and so he replaced
those, and repacked the hubs. I can pick up the bike today. I thank Jim for
taking care of me and my bike, and I appreciate all the good service I've
gotten from him over the years.

I come to the shop after work. Jim's already left for the day. I stand
around and yak with the bike shop people for a bit -- Tom, who is a floor
salesman, suggests I look at some new Fuji (which they don't carry) he's
heard about, because he thinks the women-specific design would fit me. We
talk about the recent issue of Bicycling, and the merits or lack thereof of
the League of American Wheelmen, or whatever it's called these days -- the
sort of conversation we have here in rbm.

Finally I get the shop slip. It shows the following work: the handlebar tape
replacement, the cable and housing replacement, and some very minimal labor
charge. Total cost: about $23, including $9 in handlebar tape. The pulleys,
the cones, etc. not mentioned. The old cones are in a little baggie, hanging
from the handlebars, I guess so I can see how they had these little scrapes
on their interior and required replacement. I mention briefly that the cones
and the pulleys aren't on the list, nor the labor for their installation,
and the word is, Jim signed off on the slip, so this must be the work and
parts that I am to pay for.

So I do.

Someone, I know, is going to reply to this saying that I should do my own
work. My response: you don't have to take up gynacology to enjoy sex, and
you don't have to take up wrenching to enjoy bicycling. It's not something I
enjoy. Let someone who does enjoy it, who has the skill and knowledge (like
Jim) do that. I like riding the bike -- messing with its mechanism is
b-o-r-i-n-g.


Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

Benjamin Lewis wrote:

Is there some fundamental reason why this is the case? Does the job of
captain require much upper body strength (i.e. enough that many people
can't handle it very well)? In what circumstances is this strength
required?

I've needed some strength under two circumstances: when stopped, or
when doing tight maneuvering at very low speeds.

We've had a few times when I've come to a stop unexpectedly and suddenly
had to put the "wrong" foot down. In that case, it can require a bit of
muscle to keep the tandem from tipping. (You don't want to have this
happen more than once every couple years, or your stoker won't trust you.)

In very slow speed maneuvering, you sometimes have to work the
handlebars a bit. In fact, on our tandem, I've never broken a back
spoke (48 spoke wheel) but I've broken two or three _front_ spokes, each
time in slow parking lot maneuvers. I think this indicates that you
sometimes exert significant forces on those bars.


--
-------------
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]