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Chain waxing



 
 
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  #111  
Old June 13th 18, 07:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 6,418
Default Chain waxing

On 6/13/2018 12:33 PM, jbeattie wrote:

Anyway, after blowing an inordinate amount of time re-running the internal hoses and cables (note to those watching at home -- on the Search, unlike a Roubaix or other bike with a BB "compartment," run the cables and hoses BEFORE putting in the PF bottom bracket), I got the bike up and running, and the rear disc was really weak. The lever felt fine, but the bike didn't stop with rear braking alone.

I had re-terminated the rear disc hose because I had to cut it to get it out of the frame (new olive and barb -- again, warning -- Shimano has a couple of olive and barb standards) and juiced it up with new massage oil; I got all the air out of the system, and the pistons seemed to be working well, but stopping was crappy. So, I put some brake cleaner on the rotor, but that didn't make much difference. Then I replaced the pad, which was not worn out but badly glazed or polluted in some way. The replacement works great, and I'll clean-up the old pad for a spare, but the moral of the story is that discs are not magic. They can foul and work poorly. My front brake on the Norco drags after hard braking even though I've cleaned (alcohol) and lightly lubed (a little TriFlow) the pistons.

In perfect working order, the dry-weather braking is on par with a dual pivot and maybe a little more powerful in the rear, which means no ham-handed right lever braking because you'll fish-tail, but switching between those brakes and my Emonda direct mount brakes, the difference is negligible -- although the rim brakes do add shudder if the wheel has a bad seam or is out of true. Discs add screaming and can add shuddering. The rim brakes never drag, ping or do any of the other weird and episodic disc things.


Classic caliper brakes are very visible mechanisms and quite easy to
troubleshoot, with squealing being the only problem sometimes requiring
witchcraft and divination.

Disc brakes seem to introduce many more mysteries. In my or my friends'
very limited experience with them, we've come across mystery squealing,
dragging noises, oddball creaking noises only when standing and
pedaling, etc.

That last one required three trips back to the shop for a brand new
bike. It took a while to confirm that the disc and not some drivetrain
component was causing the noise.

I suppose I should consider these an opportunity for more learning.

--
- Frank Krygowski
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  #112  
Old June 13th 18, 08:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 5,607
Default Chain waxing

On 2018-06-13 09:33, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 7:59:54 AM UTC-7, duane wrote:
On 12/06/2018 8:56 PM, James wrote:
On 13/06/18 08:53, Frank Krygowski wrote:

But now we have true global communication; and people
emotional evolution isn't up to it. We hear about someone on
literally the opposite end of the earth having wallaby problems
while bicycling, and many people seem to say "Damn! I'd better
get better brakes on my bike! No telling where those wallabies
will pop out next!"


Strange. I don't recall hearing "many people" say that. Not
even seeming to say it. Are the voices you hear in your head, by
chance?

Some skeptics look instead at the data on bike crash causes and
say "I might hit a dog once every million miles; less often if
I watch out for them. I think I'll just watch out for them."

But math is hard.


I ran over a wallaby's tail while descending a small mountain
some years back, and now that I live where there are a lot of
wallabies and kangaroos, I certainly do watch out for them. I
most certainly haven't thought about getting better brakes, just
as I haven't heard "many" others say anything like that.

Perhaps I'm not hearing the same voices in my head as you,
Frank.


I had an aligator cross highway 11 in front of me outside of New
Orleans once. He was a baby though, only 4 or 5 feet and seemed
more concerned with getting out of the sun than bothering me. I
don't watch out for them very much, especially as there aren't many
in Quebec.

I did hit a cat a couple of years ago. Now if I see a cat on the
side of the road trying to cross I would probably stop and let it
go rather than assuming it would not jump into my wheel.

I'm not sure what this has to do with data tracking or chain waxing
or whatever. WRT brakes, I've heard people discuss the benefits of
disc brakes in wet but never as a solution to avoiding animals.



I was talking about avoiding animals in wet weather. That's when the
difference can be huge, especially if you don't expect any buck or
wheatever to break out of the brush and the rims are all wet. Had
another one do that two weeks ago but he was still 20ft or so away. What
is weird is they don't even look at me, just straight ahead and then
they do a Speedy Gonzales.


Well except the one that you already noted...


Discs do double-duty here in the PNW -- avoiding wet animals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFZbciPzAYk

Speaking of discs -- caution, technical comment: I emoted earlier
about my son riding the Norco Search (my gravel bike) and getting
horrendous chain suck that basically ate up part of the BB, chainstay
and downtube. So, in a fit of money-wasting, I took it over to Ruckus
for some carbon repair. Not cheap, but the paint matching was
incredibly good, in fact, invisible. Its not a show bike, and I
really didn't need to match, but since I was descending into the
money-pit of repair, what the heck. Keep the economy strong. The CF
repair added some bulk, but you would have to do a side-by-side with
an original frame to notice. ...



That's what we did with stuff similar to Bondo underneath older
dilapidated cars in Germany, to get them through the road worthiness
check. When the resin was still wet I blew out the bag from a vacuum
cleaner near it, coughed my lungs out and an hour later you could no
longer detect the area of "repair". It was all uniformly gray. Of
course, then they started using magnets and other nasty tricks to catch us.


... Ruckus does amazing work.

Anyway, after blowing an inordinate amount of time re-running the
internal hoses and cables (note to those watching at home -- on the
Search, unlike a Roubaix or other bike with a BB "compartment," run
the cables and hoses BEFORE putting in the PF bottom bracket), I got
the bike up and running, and the rear disc was really weak. The lever
felt fine, but the bike didn't stop with rear braking alone.

I had re-terminated the rear disc hose because I had to cut it to get
it out of the frame (new olive and barb -- again, warning -- Shimano
has a couple of olive and barb standards) and juiced it up with new
massage oil; I got all the air out of the system, and the pistons
seemed to be working well, but stopping was crappy. So, I put some
brake cleaner on the rotor, but that didn't make much difference.
Then I replaced the pad, which was not worn out but badly glazed or
polluted in some way. The replacement works great, and I'll clean-up
the old pad for a spare, but the moral of the story is that discs are
not magic. They can foul and work poorly. My front brake on the
Norco drags after hard braking even though I've cleaned (alcohol) and
lightly lubed (a little TriFlow) the pistons.


The first order of business when facing a weak disc brake despite a good
and hard lever pressure point is to remove the pads and take a look. Or
just swap them out. Mine cost a fraction of rim brake pads so that's an
easy decision.

I never had glazed disc brake pads even though lots of weird vegetation
shreds through there.


In perfect working order, the dry-weather braking is on par with a
dual pivot and maybe a little more powerful in the rear, which means
no ham-handed right lever braking because you'll fish-tail, but
switching between those brakes and my Emonda direct mount brakes, the
difference is negligible -- although the rim brakes do add shudder if
the wheel has a bad seam or is out of true. Discs add screaming and
can add shuddering. The rim brakes never drag, ping or do any of the
other weird and episodic disc things. On a mostly dry weather racing
bike, I see no reason for discs -- except for long descents on CF
wheels, which may be reason enough to have them, although there has
been no hue and cry from the Euro pros.


With dry weather rim brakes are ok. Though even then they have
downsides. A week ago I showed a rider a long singletrack. He had a
Specialized 4500 with rim brakes. After going through the occasional
little creek or wet ditch I could sometimes hear the grinding of his
brakes behind me ... phssshhh ... like sandpaper. That can't be healthy
for rims.


Final note, one thing that drove me crazy about the Norco was the
internal cable rattle. The rear derailleur cable runs through
housing from the lever to the derailleur, and when I reinstalled it,
I put a foam sleeve around it. It's now quiet. Don't know why that
wasn't OE. Running internal cables adds an hour to building a bike,
at least for me. I don't have one of those fish tools and have to
get creative (often with my language).


You can use 1/4" tape measure to push into tubes and fish stuff. Where
that is too wide you can use weed eater trimmer line, cheap, every
hardware store has that:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Profast-Nyl...r/222754192035

Oh, and to open the chain you can use a nail, a rock ... :-)

I am now the proud owner of a Crankbrothers M19 tool, _with_ chain
breaker. It just came with it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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