Sort of Comical

On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 4:07:21 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 01:50:45 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 9/12/2020 4:33 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:

As a fat, slow, cheap engineer, I like the idea of power meters, but I’m
not willing to pay much money for the data. I had liked the original
concept for the iQ2 (Power Meter built into a pedal spacer), but then they
switched to a pedal based design incompatible with the cleats I normally
use. The Velocomp PowerPod looks to be an interesting compromise between
accuracy and cost and as soon as I can clear enough space on my bars for
“one more device�, I might get one.
I'm also a fat (or maybe slightly overweight), slow, cheap engineer, but
I don't get the fascination with power meters.

I can easily see their value in time trialing, and thus in training for
time trialing. ISTM they have somewhat less value in other types of
racing, where you must choose your effort level based on other factors
besides your own personal limits.

But for non-competitive riding - why? If you want to train to be faster
(um... for non-competitive riding?) isn't a notebook and a stopwatch or
an average speed readout sufficient?

On our 30-something mile ride today, I looked at my Average Speed
readout a couple times, only out of curiosity. The rest of the time I
looked at the scenery. That was really why I was out there - besides to
get to the hardware store.

--
- Frank Krygowski


So a power meter has no value to you. So what?

STI has no value to Frank. Your entire stable of high-end bicycles and neatly arranged shoes would have no value to Frank. Do not try to sell any of these things to Frank.

And yes, you do need permission to own a power meter and any other product that did not come standard on a 1965 Schwinn Varsity. https://bikehistory.org/catalogs/ima...rts-bike-2.jpg

My permission charges are very reasonable: $12.95 for a power meter, $9.85 for any Garmin-like device, and varying prices (all USD) for other unnecessary items used by modern cyclists. Lycra charges can be steep, particularly if you wear anything white or with world champion stripes.

Marketing is a powerful thing, and deceived consumers must pay. Upon receipt of payment, you will receive an official, non-transferable, hand embossed permission slip that you should keep with you at all times.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 9/13/2020 7:07 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 01:50:45 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 9/12/2020 4:33 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:

As a fat, slow, cheap engineer, I like the idea of power meters, but I’m
not willing to pay much money for the data. I had liked the original
concept for the iQ2 (Power Meter built into a pedal spacer), but then they
switched to a pedal based design incompatible with the cleats I normally
use. The Velocomp PowerPod looks to be an interesting compromise between
accuracy and cost and as soon as I can clear enough space on my bars for
“one more device�, I might get one.
I'm also a fat (or maybe slightly overweight), slow, cheap engineer, but
I don't get the fascination with power meters.

I can easily see their value in time trialing, and thus in training for
time trialing. ISTM they have somewhat less value in other types of
racing, where you must choose your effort level based on other factors
besides your own personal limits.

But for non-competitive riding - why? If you want to train to be faster
(um... for non-competitive riding?) isn't a notebook and a stopwatch or
an average speed readout sufficient?

On our 30-something mile ride today, I looked at my Average Speed
readout a couple times, only out of curiosity. The rest of the time I
looked at the scenery. That was really why I was out there - besides to
get to the hardware store.

--
- Frank Krygowski


So a power meter has no value to you. So what?

Is a power meter of value to you? If so, can you explain why?

I explained my position. You should explain yours. This does pretend to
be a _discussion_ group, after all.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 9/13/2020 10:49 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 4:07:21 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 01:50:45 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 9/12/2020 4:33 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:

As a fat, slow, cheap engineer, I like the idea of power meters, but I’m
not willing to pay much money for the data. I had liked the original
concept for the iQ2 (Power Meter built into a pedal spacer), but then they
switched to a pedal based design incompatible with the cleats I normally
use. The Velocomp PowerPod looks to be an interesting compromise between
accuracy and cost and as soon as I can clear enough space on my bars for
“one more device�, I might get one.
I'm also a fat (or maybe slightly overweight), slow, cheap engineer, but
I don't get the fascination with power meters.

I can easily see their value in time trialing, and thus in training for
time trialing. ISTM they have somewhat less value in other types of
racing, where you must choose your effort level based on other factors
besides your own personal limits.

But for non-competitive riding - why? If you want to train to be faster
(um... for non-competitive riding?) isn't a notebook and a stopwatch or
an average speed readout sufficient?

On our 30-something mile ride today, I looked at my Average Speed
readout a couple times, only out of curiosity. The rest of the time I
looked at the scenery. That was really why I was out there - besides to
get to the hardware store.

--
- Frank Krygowski


So a power meter has no value to you. So what?

STI has no value to Frank. Your entire stable of high-end bicycles and neatly arranged shoes would have no value to Frank. Do not try to sell any of these things to Frank.

And yes, you do need permission to own a power meter and any other product that did not come standard on a 1965 Schwinn Varsity. https://bikehistory.org/catalogs/ima...rts-bike-2.jpg

My permission charges are very reasonable: $12.95 for a power meter, $9.85 for any Garmin-like device, and varying prices (all USD) for other unnecessary items used by modern cyclists. Lycra charges can be steep, particularly if you wear anything white or with world champion stripes.

Marketing is a powerful thing, and deceived consumers must pay. Upon receipt of payment, you will receive an official, non-transferable, hand embossed permission slip that you should keep with you at all times.

Please skip the deflection into STI, fancy shoes, bike mockery, etc. If
a power meter is so valuable to you, explain why.

As I've hinted above, I think they can be useful for certain cyclists.
Are you in training for the Geezer Olympics? Do you see a time trial
record in your future?

If not - do you just enjoy depressing yourself?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 7:49:05 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 4:07:21 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 01:50:45 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 9/12/2020 4:33 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:

As a fat, slow, cheap engineer, I like the idea of power meters, but I’m
not willing to pay much money for the data. I had liked the original
concept for the iQ2 (Power Meter built into a pedal spacer), but then they
switched to a pedal based design incompatible with the cleats I normally
use. The Velocomp PowerPod looks to be an interesting compromise between
accuracy and cost and as soon as I can clear enough space on my bars for
“one more device�, I might get one.
I'm also a fat (or maybe slightly overweight), slow, cheap engineer, but
I don't get the fascination with power meters.

I can easily see their value in time trialing, and thus in training for
time trialing. ISTM they have somewhat less value in other types of
racing, where you must choose your effort level based on other factors
besides your own personal limits.

But for non-competitive riding - why? If you want to train to be faster
(um... for non-competitive riding?) isn't a notebook and a stopwatch or
an average speed readout sufficient?

On our 30-something mile ride today, I looked at my Average Speed
readout a couple times, only out of curiosity. The rest of the time I
looked at the scenery. That was really why I was out there - besides to
get to the hardware store.

--
- Frank Krygowski


So a power meter has no value to you. So what?
STI has no value to Frank. Your entire stable of high-end bicycles and neatly arranged shoes would have no value to Frank. Do not try to sell any of these things to Frank.

And yes, you do need permission to own a power meter and any other product that did not come standard on a 1965 Schwinn Varsity. https://bikehistory..org/catalogs/im...rts-bike-2.jpg

My permission charges are very reasonable: $12.95 for a power meter, $9.85 for any Garmin-like device, and varying prices (all USD) for other unnecessary items used by modern cyclists. Lycra charges can be steep, particularly if you wear anything white or with world champion stripes.

Marketing is a powerful thing, and deceived consumers must pay. Upon receipt of payment, you will receive an official, non-transferable, hand embossed permission slip that you should keep with you at all times.

-- Jay Beattie.
Weather report is mild rain on Tuesday and heavy rain on Thursday. Let's hope that's good enough to tamp down the fires from hell you're having up there.

On 9/13/2020 7:10 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 01:15:08 UTC+2 schreef Andre Jute:
I'm with Tom. It's just mindless to pay the price of a very decent bike for the Euro Elite for a power meter the only function of which is to tell you how bad you suck.

It's bad enough that the free app Polar Beat tells the whole world, in a seductive but load woman's voice, how many minutes I took to cycle the last kilometre. I can't switch her off either because I chose an indestructible iPhone 4S as my handlebar repeater, and I can't read the thing in a glance before I return my eye to the (dangerous*) lanes I cycle.

Andre Jute
* Second photo at http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....82377#msg82377


Do people need permission to use a power meter, a GPS head unit, a cadence sensor, a heart rate monitor, a speed sensor, a cycling computer, a compass or a f*cking notebook? WTF.

Good grief, who said anything about "permission"?

Lou, you come across as a person with deep insecurities. If anyone
expresses any skepticism about any of your currently marketed equipment
choices, you switch to high dudgeon mode. This is supposed to be a
_discussion_ group, not the Church of the Most Fashionable Equipment.

Look, we can take a vote right now. I hereby vote to give you
"permission" to buy and use every bit of the most up-to-the-minute
performance oriented technology available to racers and wannabe racers.
I sincerely hope it helps you finish your next ride in ten seconds less
time. And I sincerely hope you get chosen as the "best equipment"
centerfold for some bicycle marketing magazine.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 17:31:05 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 9/13/2020 7:07 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 01:50:45 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 9/12/2020 4:33 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:

As a fat, slow, cheap engineer, I like the idea of power meters, but I’m
not willing to pay much money for the data. I had liked the original
concept for the iQ2 (Power Meter built into a pedal spacer), but then they
switched to a pedal based design incompatible with the cleats I normally
use. The Velocomp PowerPod looks to be an interesting compromise between
accuracy and cost and as soon as I can clear enough space on my bars for
“one more device�, I might get one.
I'm also a fat (or maybe slightly overweight), slow, cheap engineer, but
I don't get the fascination with power meters.

I can easily see their value in time trialing, and thus in training for
time trialing. ISTM they have somewhat less value in other types of
racing, where you must choose your effort level based on other factors
besides your own personal limits.

But for non-competitive riding - why? If you want to train to be faster
(um... for non-competitive riding?) isn't a notebook and a stopwatch or
an average speed readout sufficient?

On our 30-something mile ride today, I looked at my Average Speed
readout a couple times, only out of curiosity. The rest of the time I
looked at the scenery. That was really why I was out there - besides to
get to the hardware store.

--
- Frank Krygowski


So a power meter has no value to you. So what?
Is a power meter of value to you? If so, can you explain why?

I explained my position. You should explain yours. This does pretend to
be a _discussion_ group, after all.

--
- Frank Krygowski

There are people who didn't gave up and who are not overweight and like to enhance their performance for whatever reason. That is independent of their level. To do that you have to train at the right level at the right moment.. A power meter helps you with that. Simple.

Lou

Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 18:00:24 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 9/13/2020 7:10 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 01:15:08 UTC+2 schreef Andre Jute:
I'm with Tom. It's just mindless to pay the price of a very decent bike for the Euro Elite for a power meter the only function of which is to tell you how bad you suck.

It's bad enough that the free app Polar Beat tells the whole world, in a seductive but load woman's voice, how many minutes I took to cycle the last kilometre. I can't switch her off either because I chose an indestructible iPhone 4S as my handlebar repeater, and I can't read the thing in a glance before I return my eye to the (dangerous*) lanes I cycle.

Andre Jute
* Second photo at http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....82377#msg82377


Do people need permission to use a power meter, a GPS head unit, a cadence sensor, a heart rate monitor, a speed sensor, a cycling computer, a compass or a f*cking notebook? WTF.
Good grief, who said anything about "permission"?

Lou, you come across as a person with deep insecurities. If anyone
expresses any skepticism about any of your currently marketed equipment
choices, you switch to high dudgeon mode. This is supposed to be a
_discussion_ group, not the Church of the Most Fashionable Equipment.

Look, we can take a vote right now. I hereby vote to give you
"permission" to buy and use every bit of the most up-to-the-minute
performance oriented technology available to racers and wannabe racers.
I sincerely hope it helps you finish your next ride in ten seconds less
time. And I sincerely hope you get chosen as the "best equipment"
centerfold for some bicycle marketing magazine.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Again this post is full of snotty remarks, this ****es me off. That is a weakness of me.

Lou

On 9/13/2020 12:04 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 18:00:24 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 9/13/2020 7:10 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 01:15:08 UTC+2 schreef Andre Jute:
I'm with Tom. It's just mindless to pay the price of a very decent bike for the Euro Elite for a power meter the only function of which is to tell you how bad you suck.

It's bad enough that the free app Polar Beat tells the whole world, in a seductive but load woman's voice, how many minutes I took to cycle the last kilometre. I can't switch her off either because I chose an indestructible iPhone 4S as my handlebar repeater, and I can't read the thing in a glance before I return my eye to the (dangerous*) lanes I cycle.

Andre Jute
* Second photo at http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....82377#msg82377


Do people need permission to use a power meter, a GPS head unit, a cadence sensor, a heart rate monitor, a speed sensor, a cycling computer, a compass or a f*cking notebook? WTF.
Good grief, who said anything about "permission"?

Lou, you come across as a person with deep insecurities. If anyone
expresses any skepticism about any of your currently marketed equipment
choices, you switch to high dudgeon mode. This is supposed to be a
_discussion_ group, not the Church of the Most Fashionable Equipment.

Look, we can take a vote right now. I hereby vote to give you
"permission" to buy and use every bit of the most up-to-the-minute
performance oriented technology available to racers and wannabe racers.
I sincerely hope it helps you finish your next ride in ten seconds less
time. And I sincerely hope you get chosen as the "best equipment"
centerfold for some bicycle marketing magazine.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Again this post is full of snotty remarks, this ****es me off. That is a weakness of me.

Says the guy who introduced "f*cking notebook? WTF?" to the discussion.
Was that not snotty?

Reacting negatively to inappropriate obscenity is one of my weaknesses.

Another is reacting negatively to mockery of less-than-fashionable
equipment choices, and mockery of non-"sport" riding styles.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 12:10:42 PM UTC+1, wrote:
Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 01:15:08 UTC+2 schreef Andre Jute:
I'm with Tom. It's just mindless to pay the price of a very decent bike for the Euro Elite for a power meter the only function of which is to tell you how bad you suck.

It's bad enough that the free app Polar Beat tells the whole world, in a seductive but load woman's voice, how many minutes I took to cycle the last kilometre. I can't switch her off either because I chose an indestructible iPhone 4S as my handlebar repeater, and I can't read the thing in a glance before I return my eye to the (dangerous*) lanes I cycle.

Andre Jute
* Second photo at http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....82377#msg82377
Do people need permission to use a power meter, a GPS head unit, a cadence sensor, a heart rate monitor, a speed sensor, a cycling computer, a compass or a f*cking notebook? WTF.

Lou

I haven't the faintest idea of what I said to upset you, Lou. I'm a libertarian who believes people should be left alone to proceed to perdition at their own speed, on whatever wheels they freely choose. By the same token I expect no interference when I express my contrary view in any words I choose..

Andre Jute
If that's okay with you, and if it is not, then all the same.

On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 10:21:01 AM UTC+2, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 12:10:42 PM UTC+1, wrote:
Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 01:15:08 UTC+2 schreef Andre Jute:
I'm with Tom. It's just mindless to pay the price of a very decent bike for the Euro Elite for a power meter the only function of which is to tell you how bad you suck.

It's bad enough that the free app Polar Beat tells the whole world, in a seductive but load woman's voice, how many minutes I took to cycle the last kilometre. I can't switch her off either because I chose an indestructible iPhone 4S as my handlebar repeater, and I can't read the thing in a glance before I return my eye to the (dangerous*) lanes I cycle.

Andre Jute
* Second photo at http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index....82377#msg82377
Do people need permission to use a power meter, a GPS head unit, a cadence sensor, a heart rate monitor, a speed sensor, a cycling computer, a compass or a f*cking notebook? WTF.

Lou

I haven't the faintest idea of what I said to upset you, Lou. I'm a libertarian who believes people should be left alone to proceed to perdition at their own speed, on whatever wheels they freely choose. By the same token I expect no interference when I express my contrary view in any words I choose.

Andre Jute
If that's okay with you, and if it is not, then all the same.

Don't worry about it.

Lou