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#1
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Why wooden rims are superior to carbon fibre reinforced plastic rims
As noted elsewhere, I have considerable experience in structural
reinforced plastics. As a reminder to those who think the carbon in carbon fibre is the important component, no it isn't. The important component is the epoxy, the plastic. The carbon fibre by itself is so brittle as to be useless. It is only in combination with the plastic (epoxy) that the carbon becomes useful in any engineering sense. The largest and most successful structure I designed and built was a 68ft transocean racing yacht in moulded wood or, if you will, in wood- fibre-reinforced plastic. That impressed the virtues of laminated wood indelibly on me. In a contemporary thread we hear much about the troubles carbon fiber rims are liable to. It doesn't take a genius to see that, in every possible engineering sense, a wooden rim is superior to a carbon fiber rim. Yes, I know, the wooden rim brakes badly in the wet, is a high- maintenance item, and ultimately cannot be made as light as a carbon rim. So? Do carbon rims brake well? Or, when you've made the carbon rim lighter than the wooden rim, doesn't the carbon rim instantly become a disposable item with short service life? In particular, wood is superior in its failure mode, in exactly the same way as steel is superior to other bicycle materials in its failure mode. Wood has more in common with good steel, in that when properly laminated into shape, wood is about the same strength as bicycle steel tubes, though it might be made to weigh the same as aluminium or less. But laminated wood fails as progressively as steel, not suddenly and catastrophically like carbon reinforced plastic. Wood just isn't brittle like that shiny rubbish. I'm really surprised that we don't see more wood in bicycles. There's a substantial section on engineering moving mechanisms in wood in my book DESIGNING AND BUILDING SPECIAL CARS (Batsford, London; Bentley, Boston; etc). Andre Jute Visit Jute on Bicycles at http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html |
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#2
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Why wooden rims are superior to carbon fibre reinforced plastic rims
On Sep 16, 12:48*pm, Andre Jute wrote:
As noted elsewhere, I have considerable experience in structural reinforced plastics. As a reminder to those who think the carbon in carbon fibre is the important component, no it isn't. The important component is the epoxy, the plastic. The carbon fibre by itself is so brittle as to be useless. It is only in combination with the plastic (epoxy) that the carbon becomes useful in any engineering sense. The largest and most successful structure I designed and built was a 68ft transocean racing yacht in moulded wood or, if you will, in wood- fibre-reinforced plastic. That impressed the virtues of laminated wood indelibly on me. Uh huh. Believe every word. In a contemporary thread we hear much about the troubles carbon fiber rims are liable to. It doesn't take a genius to see that, in every possible engineering sense, a wooden rim is superior to a carbon fiber rim. Testify my brother! Yes, I know, the wooden rim brakes badly in the wet, is a high- maintenance item, and ultimately cannot be made as light as a carbon rim. So? Do carbon rims brake well? Or, when you've made the carbon rim lighter than the wooden rim, doesn't the carbon rim instantly become a disposable item with short service life? My N of 1 flies in the face of your blather. In particular, wood is superior in its failure mode, in exactly the same way as steel is superior to other bicycle materials in its failure mode. Wood has more in common with good steel, in that when properly laminated into shape, wood is about the same strength as bicycle steel tubes, though it might be made to weigh the same as aluminium or less. But laminated wood fails as progressively as steel, not suddenly and catastrophically like carbon reinforced plastic. Wood just isn't brittle like that shiny rubbish. I'm really surprised that we don't see more wood in bicycles. Can you even get wood? There's a substantial section on engineering moving mechanisms in wood in my book DESIGNING AND BUILDING SPECIAL CARS (Batsford, London; Bentley, Boston; etc). YAWN Andre Jute Visit Jute on Bicycles at *http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html No thanks! D'ohBoy |
#3
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Why wooden rims are superior to carbon fibre reinforced plastic rims
See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsaMb7Wuinw
"Andre Jute" wrote in message ... As noted elsewhere, I have considerable experience in structural reinforced plastics. As a reminder to those who think the carbon in carbon fibre is the important component, no it isn't. The important component is the epoxy, the plastic. The carbon fibre by itself is so brittle as to be useless. It is only in combination with the plastic (epoxy) that the carbon becomes useful in any engineering sense. The largest and most successful structure I designed and built was a 68ft transocean racing yacht in moulded wood or, if you will, in wood- fibre-reinforced plastic. That impressed the virtues of laminated wood indelibly on me. In a contemporary thread we hear much about the troubles carbon fiber rims are liable to. It doesn't take a genius to see that, in every possible engineering sense, a wooden rim is superior to a carbon fiber rim. Yes, I know, the wooden rim brakes badly in the wet, is a high- maintenance item, and ultimately cannot be made as light as a carbon rim. So? Do carbon rims brake well? Or, when you've made the carbon rim lighter than the wooden rim, doesn't the carbon rim instantly become a disposable item with short service life? In particular, wood is superior in its failure mode, in exactly the same way as steel is superior to other bicycle materials in its failure mode. Wood has more in common with good steel, in that when properly laminated into shape, wood is about the same strength as bicycle steel tubes, though it might be made to weigh the same as aluminium or less. But laminated wood fails as progressively as steel, not suddenly and catastrophically like carbon reinforced plastic. Wood just isn't brittle like that shiny rubbish. I'm really surprised that we don't see more wood in bicycles. There's a substantial section on engineering moving mechanisms in wood in my book DESIGNING AND BUILDING SPECIAL CARS (Batsford, London; Bentley, Boston; etc). Andre Jute Visit Jute on Bicycles at http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html |
#4
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Why wooden rims are superior to carbon fibre reinforced plastic rims
On Sep 17, 4:20*am, "D'ohBoy" wrote:
On Sep 16, 12:48*pm, Andre Jute wrote: I'm really surprised that we don't see more wood in bicycles. Can you even get wood? Yes. http://www.renovobikes.com/ Had I been able to test ride one I would have been tempted to buy one, just to shove it up the carbon toting packs at the vets racing. JS. |
#5
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Why wooden rims are superior to carbon fibre reinforced plastic rims
Jute has apparently never played baseball.
-- That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, Bingo. |
#6
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Why wooden rims are superior to carbon fibre reinforced plastic rims
In article
, James wrote: On Sep 17, 4:20*am, "D'ohBoy" wrote: On Sep 16, 12:48*pm, Andre Jute wrote: I'm really surprised that we don't see more wood in bicycles. Can you even get wood? Yes. http://www.renovobikes.com/ Had I been able to test ride one I would have been tempted to buy one, just to shove it up the carbon toting packs at the vets racing. A laudable goal. But "get wood" was being used in a colloquial way. -- That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, Bingo. |
#7
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Why wooden rims are superior to carbon fibre reinforced plastic rims
On Sep 16, 7:51*pm, "MikeWhy" wrote:
See:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsaMb7Wuinw I actually looked into getting bamboo of a quality suitable for making a bike and it was basically no-go. The available stuff all looked like scaffolding rejects, or if strong enough was way too big. Guy in one of those former Iron Curtain countries made a carbon bike and then a bamboo bike, both successful, but he wrote later that -- after so much trouble getting decent bamboo -- if he did it again, he would grow his own! -- AJ "Andre Jute" wrote in message ... As noted elsewhere, I have considerable experience in structural reinforced plastics. As a reminder to those who think the carbon in carbon fibre is the important component, no it isn't. The important component is the epoxy, the plastic. The carbon fibre by itself is so brittle as to be useless. It is only in combination with the plastic (epoxy) that the carbon becomes useful in any engineering sense. The largest and most successful structure I designed and built was a 68ft transocean racing yacht in moulded wood or, if you will, in wood- fibre-reinforced plastic. That impressed the virtues of laminated wood indelibly on me. In a contemporary thread we hear much about the troubles carbon fiber rims are liable to. It doesn't take a genius to see that, in every possible engineering sense, a wooden rim is superior to a carbon fiber rim. Yes, I know, the wooden rim brakes badly in the wet, is a high- maintenance item, and ultimately cannot be made as light as a carbon rim. So? Do carbon rims brake well? Or, when you've made the carbon rim lighter than the wooden rim, doesn't the carbon rim instantly become a disposable item with short service life? In particular, wood is superior in its failure mode, in exactly the same way as steel is superior to other bicycle materials in its failure mode. Wood has more in common with good steel, in that when properly laminated into shape, wood is about the same strength as bicycle steel tubes, though it might be made to weigh the same as aluminium or less. But laminated wood fails as progressively as steel, not suddenly and catastrophically like carbon reinforced plastic. Wood just isn't brittle like that shiny rubbish. I'm really surprised that we don't see more wood in bicycles. There's a substantial section on engineering moving mechanisms in wood in my book DESIGNING AND BUILDING SPECIAL CARS (Batsford, London; Bentley, Boston; etc). Andre Jute Visit Jute on Bicycles at http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html |
#8
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Why wooden rims are superior to carbon fibre reinforced plastic rims
On Sep 17, 8:58*am, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sep 16, 7:51*pm, "MikeWhy" wrote: See:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsaMb7Wuinw I actually looked into getting bamboo of a quality suitable for making a bike and it was basically no-go. The available stuff all looked like scaffolding rejects, or if strong enough was way too big. Guy in one of those former Iron Curtain countries made a carbon bike and then a bamboo bike, both successful, but he wrote later that -- after so much trouble getting decent bamboo -- if he did it again, he would grow his own! -- AJ I thought bamboo was a member of the grass family. Is the material really classified as wood? I know a 75 year old ex track rider who's got a few wooden rims still hanging in his garage that he used to race on. My brother's got one too I think. Don't know that he's ever ridden it though. JS. |
#9
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Why wooden rims are superior to carbon fibre reinforced plastic rims
In article
, James wrote: On Sep 17, 4:20Â*am, "D'ohBoy" wrote: On Sep 16, 12:48Â*pm, Andre Jute wrote: I'm really surprised that we don't see more wood in bicycles. Can you even get wood? Yes. http://www.renovobikes.com/ Had I been able to test ride one I would have been tempted to buy one, just to shove it up the carbon toting packs at the vets racing. Wood splinters into daggers. Do not crash one of those frames. -- Michael Press |
#10
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Why wooden rims are superior to carbon fibre reinforced plastic rims
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 15:06:35 -0700 (PDT), James
wrote: On Sep 17, 4:20*am, "D'ohBoy" wrote: On Sep 16, 12:48*pm, Andre Jute wrote: I'm really surprised that we don't see more wood in bicycles. Can you even get wood? Yes. http://www.renovobikes.com/ Had I been able to test ride one I would have been tempted to buy one, just to shove it up the carbon toting packs at the vets racing. How about an all wood bicycle? No epoxy required: http://www.geekologie.com/2008/01/boy_builds_bicycle_entirely_ou.php Wood frame concept bicycle: http://2009.gp.co.at/works/jano/ More, with photos of other strange wood bicycles: http://2009.gp.co.at/stayfocused/jano/downloads/jano_thesis_screen96dpi.pdf and mo http://www.bmeres.com http://www.woodbike.com Watch out for wood termites. -- # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060 # 831-336-2558 # http://802.11junk.com # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS |
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