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Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 8th 20, 03:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 20
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

I want to build a set of wheels and I don't use tubeless and have clinchers.. Seems most now are tubeless and some have holes to drive spokes through the rim and others don't. Anyone know which ones can have regular spoke holes and still be tubeless? My rim choices are

DT Swiss 411 or the 460
H and Son Archetype if I can find them
Possibly Velocity..........what do you like A23
HED
Kinlin

Basically I want to build a decent 32 spoke rim with Shimano Ultegra hubs radial front 3 cross rear. Not much in stock in most places. Finally how hard is it to build a wheel on tubeless with no spoke holes on outside?

Deacon Mark
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  #2  
Old September 8th 20, 03:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 12,108
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On 9/8/2020 9:30 AM, wrote:
I want to build a set of wheels and I don't use tubeless and have clinchers. Seems most now are tubeless and some have holes to drive spokes through the rim and others don't. Anyone know which ones can have regular spoke holes and still be tubeless? My rim choices are

DT Swiss 411 or the 460
H and Son Archetype if I can find them
Possibly Velocity..........what do you like A23
HED
Kinlin

Basically I want to build a decent 32 spoke rim with Shimano Ultegra hubs radial front 3 cross rear. Not much in stock in most places. Finally how hard is it to build a wheel on tubeless with no spoke holes on outside?

Deacon Mark


We build a lot of A23 and 32h is conservative for riders
under about 220lbs on A23. Use the Velocity matching rim
liner because other liners will not cover the nipple holes
adequately. This is a common foible of many modern rim
designs; use the manufacturer recommended rim liner.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #3  
Old September 8th 20, 04:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,070
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 7:30:41 AM UTC-7, wrote:
I want to build a set of wheels and I don't use tubeless and have clinchers. Seems most now are tubeless and some have holes to drive spokes through the rim and others don't. Anyone know which ones can have regular spoke holes and still be tubeless? My rim choices are

DT Swiss 411 or the 460
H and Son Archetype if I can find them
Possibly Velocity..........what do you like A23
HED
Kinlin

Basically I want to build a decent 32 spoke rim with Shimano Ultegra hubs radial front 3 cross rear. Not much in stock in most places. Finally how hard is it to build a wheel on tubeless with no spoke holes on outside?


It's a f******* pain in the ass! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXeZ...l=LightBicycle This is just one method, and all methods are at least as tedious.

I regret buying tubeless and tubeless ready rims because I never run tubeless, and they're miserable for mounting ordinary clinchers. I strongly recommend ordinary clinchers. With latex tubes, RR is as good. https://cyclingtips.com/2020/08/tube...-france-stage/

The author of that article wonders why Specialized/Roval didn't offer the Rapide wheel in a tubless design:

"What’s also somewhat confounding is that, in a race scenario, there is no benefit to a tubed clincher over a tubeless tire. They are no faster and lack the self-healing sealant of a tubeless setup. We still find it odd that the new Roval wheels aren’t tubeless, and we haven’t yet heard a satisfactory explanation."

Here's the explanation: Specialized got tired of customers and dealers who couldn't mount tubeless correctly. They were more trouble than they were worth.

They still have some lower-end Rovals -- including a pair my son is sending me at this very moment -- that are tubeless ready. I'm getting a set as a second pair for my gravel bike and have been promised that they are easy to mount tires on, otherwise I would buy them. I get them super-cheap, too, which makes it more palatable. If I were building a wheel and wanted tubeless compatibility, I'd buy an A23 or something like it that is basically an ordinary clincher rim with ordinary, accessible spoke holes.

-- Jay Beattie.




  #4  
Old September 8th 20, 04:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 9,259
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On 9/8/2020 11:25 AM, jbeattie wrote:

"They were more trouble than they were worth."


Regarding bike technology, that's an uncommon statement around here!


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #5  
Old September 8th 20, 04:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 20
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 10:34:34 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/8/2020 11:25 AM, jbeattie wrote:

"They were more trouble than they were worth."

Regarding bike technology, that's an uncommon statement around here!


--
- Frank Krygowski

Thanks for the feedback but buying ordinary clincher rims that are not tubeless seems to be difficult. I weight 169 so could go 24 28 but don't know what hubs to buy? I have these Novotecs but I am not keen on them but work ok.

Deacon Mark
  #6  
Old September 8th 20, 05:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
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Posts: 792
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 8:25:43 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 7:30:41 AM UTC-7, wrote:
I want to build a set of wheels and I don't use tubeless and have clinchers. Seems most now are tubeless and some have holes to drive spokes through the rim and others don't. Anyone know which ones can have regular spoke holes and still be tubeless? My rim choices are

DT Swiss 411 or the 460
H and Son Archetype if I can find them
Possibly Velocity..........what do you like A23
HED
Kinlin

Basically I want to build a decent 32 spoke rim with Shimano Ultegra hubs radial front 3 cross rear. Not much in stock in most places. Finally how hard is it to build a wheel on tubeless with no spoke holes on outside?

It's a f******* pain in the ass! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXeZ...l=LightBicycle This is just one method, and all methods are at least as tedious.

I regret buying tubeless and tubeless ready rims because I never run tubeless, and they're miserable for mounting ordinary clinchers. I strongly recommend ordinary clinchers. With latex tubes, RR is as good. https://cyclingtips.com/2020/08/tube...-france-stage/

The author of that article wonders why Specialized/Roval didn't offer the Rapide wheel in a tubless design:

"What’s also somewhat confounding is that, in a race scenario, there is no benefit to a tubed clincher over a tubeless tire. They are no faster and lack the self-healing sealant of a tubeless setup. We still find it odd that the new Roval wheels aren’t tubeless, and we haven’t yet heard a satisfactory explanation."

Here's the explanation: Specialized got tired of customers and dealers who couldn't mount tubeless correctly. They were more trouble than they were worth.

They still have some lower-end Rovals -- including a pair my son is sending me at this very moment -- that are tubeless ready. I'm getting a set as a second pair for my gravel bike and have been promised that they are easy to mount tires on, otherwise I would buy them. I get them super-cheap, too, which makes it more palatable. If I were building a wheel and wanted tubeless compatibility, I'd buy an A23 or something like it that is basically an ordinary clincher rim with ordinary, accessible spoke holes.

-- Jay Beattie.

I agree with your completely. At first the tubeless tires mounted reasonably easy but they did not deliver the tubeless performance promised. The top level tires - Michelin Performance tires and the Continental GP5000TLR were extremely expensive and simply cut easily and the sealant could not fill the rather large cuts. So you would have to carry a tube kit with you anyway and when you had to change it, it was a gooey mess. What's more - I have a GP5000 that has less than 500 miles on it and you can actually see the cord though the almost transparent rubber. After paying $90 a tire I really expect a longer lifespan. Vittoria are cheaper and have less rolling resistance. I prefer Michelin Pro4's but they seem to have become unobtainable. In any case, the promise of the tubeless tire seems to have dissolved because the air capacity of a tubeless tire is simply too low. A stage of the Tour was won by a man on normal clincher tires the other day showing that rolling resistance is now so low that it has become unimportant for all of the top line tires.

I should also add that tubeless tires have now become so difficult to mount that I destroyed a carbon rim trying to get them on. Reverting to clinchers and rather than working for a half hour or more to mount the tire, it became the familiar minutes.
  #7  
Old September 8th 20, 05:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
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Posts: 792
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 8:58:39 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 10:34:34 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/8/2020 11:25 AM, jbeattie wrote:


ALL of the commonly available Chinese hubs are pretty good. They now are even constructed with reverse threaded nuts on the right side so that you can change freehubs without worrying about torque settings too much. Just change the freehub and tighten them to "tight" and not killer tight or to a certain torque setting. Now, the Chinese hubs DO use Chinese bearings with are not the quality of Japanese or American bearings but if and when they fail you can always replace them easily.
"They were more trouble than they were worth."

Regarding bike technology, that's an uncommon statement around here!


--
- Frank Krygowski

Thanks for the feedback but buying ordinary clincher rims that are not tubeless seems to be difficult. I weight 169 so could go 24 28 but don't know what hubs to buy? I have these Novotecs but I am not keen on them but work ok.

Deacon Mark

  #8  
Old September 8th 20, 05:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark J.
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Posts: 715
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On 9/8/2020 7:30 AM, wrote:
I want to build a set of wheels and I don't use tubeless and have clinchers. Seems most now are tubeless and some have holes to drive spokes through the rim and others don't. Anyone know which ones can have regular spoke holes and still be tubeless? My rim choices are

DT Swiss 411 or the 460
H and Son Archetype if I can find them
Possibly Velocity..........what do you like A23
HED
Kinlin

Basically I want to build a decent 32 spoke rim with Shimano Ultegra hubs radial front 3 cross rear. Not much in stock in most places. Finally how hard is it to build a wheel on tubeless with no spoke holes on outside?

Deacon Mark


I got 10,000 miles on a Velocity A23 "OC" rim with 24 spokes, 170lb/77kg
rider. 24 spokes was pushing it, so I'm reasonably happy with that
performance (rim died of cracks at the nipple holes).

Replaced with the DT 411 "OC" rim, still 24 spokes. DT "requires" and
supplies nipple washers with the rim, use 'em, it might hold off the cracks.

Both built well and held their true (well, the A23 was stable up to its
demise).

Don't recall if you've told us your weight, but I expect either the A23
or DT 411 would give many many years of service in 32 spoke.

PS - I haven't tried tubeless tires yet.
I can't find if the DT rim is supposed to be "tubeless ready" or not
(i.e. can be run tubeless with the correct rim liner), but it works fine
with clinchers & tubes, and tires don't fit unreasonably tight either.

Same for the A23.

Mark J.
  #9  
Old September 8th 20, 08:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 20
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-5, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/8/2020 7:30 AM, wrote:
I want to build a set of wheels and I don't use tubeless and have clinchers. Seems most now are tubeless and some have holes to drive spokes through the rim and others don't. Anyone know which ones can have regular spoke holes and still be tubeless? My rim choices are

DT Swiss 411 or the 460
H and Son Archetype if I can find them
Possibly Velocity..........what do you like A23
HED
Kinlin

Basically I want to build a decent 32 spoke rim with Shimano Ultegra hubs radial front 3 cross rear. Not much in stock in most places. Finally how hard is it to build a wheel on tubeless with no spoke holes on outside?

Deacon Mark

I got 10,000 miles on a Velocity A23 "OC" rim with 24 spokes, 170lb/77kg
rider. 24 spokes was pushing it, so I'm reasonably happy with that
performance (rim died of cracks at the nipple holes).

Replaced with the DT 411 "OC" rim, still 24 spokes. DT "requires" and
supplies nipple washers with the rim, use 'em, it might hold off the cracks.

Both built well and held their true (well, the A23 was stable up to its
demise).

Don't recall if you've told us your weight, but I expect either the A23
or DT 411 would give many many years of service in 32 spoke.

PS - I haven't tried tubeless tires yet.
I can't find if the DT rim is supposed to be "tubeless ready" or not
(i.e. can be run tubeless with the correct rim liner), but it works fine
with clinchers & tubes, and tires don't fit unreasonably tight either.

Same for the A23.

Mark J.

Do Velocity a23 in the OC rear and front have traditional spoke holes to work with?

Deacon Mark
  #10  
Old September 8th 20, 08:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark J.
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Posts: 715
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On 9/8/2020 12:15 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-5, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/8/2020 7:30 AM, wrote:
I want to build a set of wheels and I don't use tubeless and have clinchers. Seems most now are tubeless and some have holes to drive spokes through the rim and others don't. Anyone know which ones can have regular spoke holes and still be tubeless? My rim choices are

DT Swiss 411 or the 460
H and Son Archetype if I can find them
Possibly Velocity..........what do you like A23
HED
Kinlin

Basically I want to build a decent 32 spoke rim with Shimano Ultegra hubs radial front 3 cross rear. Not much in stock in most places. Finally how hard is it to build a wheel on tubeless with no spoke holes on outside?

Deacon Mark

I got 10,000 miles on a Velocity A23 "OC" rim with 24 spokes, 170lb/77kg
rider. 24 spokes was pushing it, so I'm reasonably happy with that
performance (rim died of cracks at the nipple holes).

Replaced with the DT 411 "OC" rim, still 24 spokes. DT "requires" and
supplies nipple washers with the rim, use 'em, it might hold off the cracks.

Both built well and held their true (well, the A23 was stable up to its
demise).

Don't recall if you've told us your weight, but I expect either the A23
or DT 411 would give many many years of service in 32 spoke.

PS - I haven't tried tubeless tires yet.
I can't find if the DT rim is supposed to be "tubeless ready" or not
(i.e. can be run tubeless with the correct rim liner), but it works fine
with clinchers & tubes, and tires don't fit unreasonably tight either.

Same for the A23.

Mark J.

Do Velocity a23 in the OC rear and front have traditional spoke holes to work with?

Deacon Mark


Probably yes for both, but I only worked with the A23 OC rear, which had
normal holes. The DT 411 had normal holes. In fact, I suspect that
you'll find few rims without normal spoke holes being sold through mass
commercial outlets, except as complete wheels.

Mark J.

 




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