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Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 8th 20, 09:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,114
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On 9/8/2020 2:15 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-5, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/8/2020 7:30 AM, wrote:
I want to build a set of wheels and I don't use tubeless and have clinchers. Seems most now are tubeless and some have holes to drive spokes through the rim and others don't. Anyone know which ones can have regular spoke holes and still be tubeless? My rim choices are

DT Swiss 411 or the 460
H and Son Archetype if I can find them
Possibly Velocity..........what do you like A23
HED
Kinlin

Basically I want to build a decent 32 spoke rim with Shimano Ultegra hubs radial front 3 cross rear. Not much in stock in most places. Finally how hard is it to build a wheel on tubeless with no spoke holes on outside?

Deacon Mark

I got 10,000 miles on a Velocity A23 "OC" rim with 24 spokes, 170lb/77kg
rider. 24 spokes was pushing it, so I'm reasonably happy with that
performance (rim died of cracks at the nipple holes).

Replaced with the DT 411 "OC" rim, still 24 spokes. DT "requires" and
supplies nipple washers with the rim, use 'em, it might hold off the cracks.

Both built well and held their true (well, the A23 was stable up to its
demise).

Don't recall if you've told us your weight, but I expect either the A23
or DT 411 would give many many years of service in 32 spoke.

PS - I haven't tried tubeless tires yet.
I can't find if the DT rim is supposed to be "tubeless ready" or not
(i.e. can be run tubeless with the correct rim liner), but it works fine
with clinchers & tubes, and tires don't fit unreasonably tight either.

Same for the A23.

Mark J.

Do Velocity a23 in the OC rear and front have traditional spoke holes to work with?

Deacon Mark


Yes they do. And American made.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


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  #12  
Old September 8th 20, 11:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 3:51:11 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/8/2020 2:15 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-5, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/8/2020 7:30 AM, wrote:
I want to build a set of wheels and I don't use tubeless and have clinchers. Seems most now are tubeless and some have holes to drive spokes through the rim and others don't. Anyone know which ones can have regular spoke holes and still be tubeless? My rim choices are

DT Swiss 411 or the 460
H and Son Archetype if I can find them
Possibly Velocity..........what do you like A23
HED
Kinlin

Basically I want to build a decent 32 spoke rim with Shimano Ultegra hubs radial front 3 cross rear. Not much in stock in most places. Finally how hard is it to build a wheel on tubeless with no spoke holes on outside?

Deacon Mark

I got 10,000 miles on a Velocity A23 "OC" rim with 24 spokes, 170lb/77kg
rider. 24 spokes was pushing it, so I'm reasonably happy with that
performance (rim died of cracks at the nipple holes).

Replaced with the DT 411 "OC" rim, still 24 spokes. DT "requires" and
supplies nipple washers with the rim, use 'em, it might hold off the cracks.

Both built well and held their true (well, the A23 was stable up to its
demise).

Don't recall if you've told us your weight, but I expect either the A23
or DT 411 would give many many years of service in 32 spoke.

PS - I haven't tried tubeless tires yet.
I can't find if the DT rim is supposed to be "tubeless ready" or not
(i.e. can be run tubeless with the correct rim liner), but it works fine
with clinchers & tubes, and tires don't fit unreasonably tight either.

Same for the A23.

Mark J.

Do Velocity a23 in the OC rear and front have traditional spoke holes to work with?

Deacon Mark


Yes they do. And American made.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

While I am at it the wheel I want to replace is Kinlin xc 279. They have about 10k miles on them and the rear wheel has a hop now. I de-tensioned the spokes. I manage to get the wheel centered and laterally pretty true certainly within in .5 mm. The tension on the drive side is pretty consistent on Park tool at all 23-25. The non-drive side is a bit more out in place going farther and 20% off in places. The problem is the hop is back in the wheel.. To correct it my guess is now way to really do this the rim is just not able. Seems to me that radial truing is the hardest and if off too much compared to the rest I should get new rim? Correct? The bike actually rides fine with it I just don't like the hop I can feel it riding.

Deacon Mark
  #13  
Old September 8th 20, 11:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,114
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On 9/8/2020 5:47 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 3:51:11 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/8/2020 2:15 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-5, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/8/2020 7:30 AM, wrote:
I want to build a set of wheels and I don't use tubeless and have clinchers. Seems most now are tubeless and some have holes to drive spokes through the rim and others don't. Anyone know which ones can have regular spoke holes and still be tubeless? My rim choices are

DT Swiss 411 or the 460
H and Son Archetype if I can find them
Possibly Velocity..........what do you like A23
HED
Kinlin

Basically I want to build a decent 32 spoke rim with Shimano Ultegra hubs radial front 3 cross rear. Not much in stock in most places. Finally how hard is it to build a wheel on tubeless with no spoke holes on outside?

Deacon Mark

I got 10,000 miles on a Velocity A23 "OC" rim with 24 spokes, 170lb/77kg
rider. 24 spokes was pushing it, so I'm reasonably happy with that
performance (rim died of cracks at the nipple holes).

Replaced with the DT 411 "OC" rim, still 24 spokes. DT "requires" and
supplies nipple washers with the rim, use 'em, it might hold off the cracks.

Both built well and held their true (well, the A23 was stable up to its
demise).

Don't recall if you've told us your weight, but I expect either the A23
or DT 411 would give many many years of service in 32 spoke.

PS - I haven't tried tubeless tires yet.
I can't find if the DT rim is supposed to be "tubeless ready" or not
(i.e. can be run tubeless with the correct rim liner), but it works fine
with clinchers & tubes, and tires don't fit unreasonably tight either.

Same for the A23.

Mark J.
Do Velocity a23 in the OC rear and front have traditional spoke holes to work with?

Deacon Mark


Yes they do. And American made.


While I am at it the wheel I want to replace is Kinlin xc 279. They have about 10k miles on them and the rear wheel has a hop now. I de-tensioned the spokes. I manage to get the wheel centered and laterally pretty true certainly within in .5 mm. The tension on the drive side is pretty consistent on Park tool at all 23-25. The non-drive side is a bit more out in place going farther and 20% off in places. The problem is the hop is back in the wheel. To correct it my guess is now way to really do this the rim is just not able. Seems to me that radial truing is the hardest and if off too much compared to the rest I should get new rim? Correct? The bike actually rides fine with it I just don't like the hop I can feel it riding.

Deacon Mark


From your description, I would rebuild with new rim and
spokes. Other arguments could be made but I'd rebuild.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #14  
Old September 9th 20, 12:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 15:47:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 3:51:11 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/8/2020 2:15 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-5, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/8/2020 7:30 AM, wrote:
I want to build a set of wheels and I don't use tubeless and have clinchers. Seems most now are tubeless and some have holes to drive spokes through the rim and others don't. Anyone know which ones can have regular spoke holes and still be tubeless? My rim choices are

DT Swiss 411 or the 460
H and Son Archetype if I can find them
Possibly Velocity..........what do you like A23
HED
Kinlin

Basically I want to build a decent 32 spoke rim with Shimano Ultegra hubs radial front 3 cross rear. Not much in stock in most places. Finally how hard is it to build a wheel on tubeless with no spoke holes on outside?

Deacon Mark

I got 10,000 miles on a Velocity A23 "OC" rim with 24 spokes, 170lb/77kg
rider. 24 spokes was pushing it, so I'm reasonably happy with that
performance (rim died of cracks at the nipple holes).

Replaced with the DT 411 "OC" rim, still 24 spokes. DT "requires" and
supplies nipple washers with the rim, use 'em, it might hold off the cracks.

Both built well and held their true (well, the A23 was stable up to its
demise).

Don't recall if you've told us your weight, but I expect either the A23
or DT 411 would give many many years of service in 32 spoke.

PS - I haven't tried tubeless tires yet.
I can't find if the DT rim is supposed to be "tubeless ready" or not
(i.e. can be run tubeless with the correct rim liner), but it works fine
with clinchers & tubes, and tires don't fit unreasonably tight either.

Same for the A23.

Mark J.
Do Velocity a23 in the OC rear and front have traditional spoke holes to work with?

Deacon Mark


Yes they do. And American made.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

While I am at it the wheel I want to replace is Kinlin xc 279. They have about 10k miles on them and the rear wheel has a hop now. I de-tensioned the spokes. I manage to get the wheel centered and laterally pretty true certainly within in .5 mm. The tension on the drive side is pretty consistent on Park tool at all 23-25. The non-drive side is a bit more out in place going farther and 20% off in places. The problem is the hop is back in the wheel. To correct it my guess is now way to really do this the rim is just not able. Seems to me that radial truing is the hardest and if off too much compared to the rest I should get new rim? Correct? The bike actually rides fine with it I just don't like the hop I can feel it riding.

Deacon Mark


You say that the wheel is "laterally pretty true" but has a "hop". It
sounds like it is not radially true???
--

Cheers,

John B.
  #15  
Old September 9th 20, 12:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 6:03:53 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 15:47:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 3:51:11 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/8/2020 2:15 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-5, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/8/2020 7:30 AM, wrote:
I want to build a set of wheels and I don't use tubeless and have clinchers. Seems most now are tubeless and some have holes to drive spokes through the rim and others don't. Anyone know which ones can have regular spoke holes and still be tubeless? My rim choices are

DT Swiss 411 or the 460
H and Son Archetype if I can find them
Possibly Velocity..........what do you like A23
HED
Kinlin

Basically I want to build a decent 32 spoke rim with Shimano Ultegra hubs radial front 3 cross rear. Not much in stock in most places. Finally how hard is it to build a wheel on tubeless with no spoke holes on outside?

Deacon Mark

I got 10,000 miles on a Velocity A23 "OC" rim with 24 spokes, 170lb/77kg
rider. 24 spokes was pushing it, so I'm reasonably happy with that
performance (rim died of cracks at the nipple holes).

Replaced with the DT 411 "OC" rim, still 24 spokes. DT "requires" and
supplies nipple washers with the rim, use 'em, it might hold off the cracks.

Both built well and held their true (well, the A23 was stable up to its
demise).

Don't recall if you've told us your weight, but I expect either the A23
or DT 411 would give many many years of service in 32 spoke.

PS - I haven't tried tubeless tires yet.
I can't find if the DT rim is supposed to be "tubeless ready" or not
(i.e. can be run tubeless with the correct rim liner), but it works fine
with clinchers & tubes, and tires don't fit unreasonably tight either.

Same for the A23.

Mark J.
Do Velocity a23 in the OC rear and front have traditional spoke holes to work with?

Deacon Mark

Yes they do. And American made.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

While I am at it the wheel I want to replace is Kinlin xc 279. They have about 10k miles on them and the rear wheel has a hop now. I de-tensioned the spokes. I manage to get the wheel centered and laterally pretty true certainly within in .5 mm. The tension on the drive side is pretty consistent on Park tool at all 23-25. The non-drive side is a bit more out in place going farther and 20% off in places. The problem is the hop is back in the wheel. To correct it my guess is now way to really do this the rim is just not able. Seems to me that radial truing is the hardest and if off too much compared to the rest I should get new rim? Correct? The bike actually rides fine with it I just don't like the hop I can feel it riding.

Deacon Mark

You say that the wheel is "laterally pretty true" but has a "hop". It
sounds like it is not radially true???
--

Cheers,

John B.

I had a pretty good feeling we are going to have to give up Andrew. This one I can do you hit the spot.

Deacon Mark
  #16  
Old September 9th 20, 01:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark J.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 717
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On 9/8/2020 3:47 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 3:51:11 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/8/2020 2:15 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-5, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/8/2020 7:30 AM, wrote:
I want to build a set of wheels and I don't use tubeless and have clinchers. Seems most now are tubeless and some have holes to drive spokes through the rim and others don't. Anyone know which ones can have regular spoke holes and still be tubeless? My rim choices are

DT Swiss 411 or the 460
H and Son Archetype if I can find them
Possibly Velocity..........what do you like A23
HED
Kinlin

Basically I want to build a decent 32 spoke rim with Shimano Ultegra hubs radial front 3 cross rear. Not much in stock in most places. Finally how hard is it to build a wheel on tubeless with no spoke holes on outside?

Deacon Mark

I got 10,000 miles on a Velocity A23 "OC" rim with 24 spokes, 170lb/77kg
rider. 24 spokes was pushing it, so I'm reasonably happy with that
performance (rim died of cracks at the nipple holes).

Replaced with the DT 411 "OC" rim, still 24 spokes. DT "requires" and
supplies nipple washers with the rim, use 'em, it might hold off the cracks.

Both built well and held their true (well, the A23 was stable up to its
demise).

Don't recall if you've told us your weight, but I expect either the A23
or DT 411 would give many many years of service in 32 spoke.

PS - I haven't tried tubeless tires yet.
I can't find if the DT rim is supposed to be "tubeless ready" or not
(i.e. can be run tubeless with the correct rim liner), but it works fine
with clinchers & tubes, and tires don't fit unreasonably tight either.

Same for the A23.

Mark J.
Do Velocity a23 in the OC rear and front have traditional spoke holes to work with?

Deacon Mark


Yes they do. And American made.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

While I am at it the wheel I want to replace is Kinlin xc 279. They have about 10k miles on them and the rear wheel has a hop now. I de-tensioned the spokes. I manage to get the wheel centered and laterally pretty true certainly within in .5 mm. The tension on the drive side is pretty consistent on Park tool at all 23-25. The non-drive side is a bit more out in place going farther and 20% off in places. The problem is the hop is back in the wheel. To correct it my guess is now way to really do this the rim is just not able. Seems to me that radial truing is the hardest and if off too much compared to the rest I should get new rim? Correct? The bike actually rides fine with it I just don't like the hop I can feel it riding.

Deacon Mark


My experience has been that a hop you can feel while riding is often a
deformed/bent rim. The truing experience you describe also suggests
bent rim. Except for emergency kludges, bent rim means time for a new
rim. It happens, enjoy building the new one. Make sure to get tension
high enough, but 23-25 Park reading on 2mm spokes is plenty high.

Mark J.
  #17  
Old September 9th 20, 01:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,114
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On 9/8/2020 7:01 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/8/2020 3:47 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 3:51:11 PM UTC-5, AMuzi
wrote:
On 9/8/2020 2:15 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-5, Mark
J. wrote:
On 9/8/2020 7:30 AM, wrote:
I want to build a set of wheels and I don't use
tubeless and have clinchers. Seems most now are
tubeless and some have holes to drive spokes through
the rim and others don't. Anyone know which ones can
have regular spoke holes and still be tubeless? My rim
choices are

DT Swiss 411 or the 460
H and Son Archetype if I can find them
Possibly Velocity..........what do you like A23
HED
Kinlin

Basically I want to build a decent 32 spoke rim with
Shimano Ultegra hubs radial front 3 cross rear. Not
much in stock in most places. Finally how hard is it
to build a wheel on tubeless with no spoke holes on
outside?

Deacon Mark

I got 10,000 miles on a Velocity A23 "OC" rim with 24
spokes, 170lb/77kg
rider. 24 spokes was pushing it, so I'm reasonably
happy with that
performance (rim died of cracks at the nipple holes).

Replaced with the DT 411 "OC" rim, still 24 spokes. DT
"requires" and
supplies nipple washers with the rim, use 'em, it might
hold off the cracks.

Both built well and held their true (well, the A23 was
stable up to its
demise).

Don't recall if you've told us your weight, but I
expect either the A23
or DT 411 would give many many years of service in 32
spoke.

PS - I haven't tried tubeless tires yet.
I can't find if the DT rim is supposed to be "tubeless
ready" or not
(i.e. can be run tubeless with the correct rim liner),
but it works fine
with clinchers & tubes, and tires don't fit
unreasonably tight either.

Same for the A23.

Mark J.
Do Velocity a23 in the OC rear and front have
traditional spoke holes to work with?

Deacon Mark

Yes they do. And American made.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

While I am at it the wheel I want to replace is Kinlin xc
279. They have about 10k miles on them and the rear wheel
has a hop now. I de-tensioned the spokes. I manage to get
the wheel centered and laterally pretty true certainly
within in .5 mm. The tension on the drive side is pretty
consistent on Park tool at all 23-25. The non-drive side
is a bit more out in place going farther and 20% off in
places. The problem is the hop is back in the wheel. To
correct it my guess is now way to really do this the rim
is just not able. Seems to me that radial truing is the
hardest and if off too much compared to the rest I should
get new rim? Correct? The bike actually rides fine with it
I just don't like the hop I can feel it riding.

Deacon Mark


My experience has been that a hop you can feel while riding
is often a deformed/bent rim. The truing experience you
describe also suggests bent rim. Except for emergency
kludges, bent rim means time for a new rim. It happens,
enjoy building the new one. Make sure to get tension high
enough, but 23-25 Park reading on 2mm spokes is plenty high.

Mark J.


At the upper end of that yes with 2mm straight spokes.

Velocity recommends 120nm (+/-10). '23' on the Park scale is
only 95nm. An undertensioned wheel is not as strong nor as
durable. Lubricate your brass nipples and use a 3-1/2 side
contact wrench; 120nm is not at all difficult.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #18  
Old September 9th 20, 01:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,265
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On 9/8/2020 8:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/8/2020 7:01 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/8/2020 3:47 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 3:51:11 PM UTC-5, AMuzi
wrote:
On 9/8/2020 2:15 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-5, Mark
J. wrote:
On 9/8/2020 7:30 AM, wrote:
I want to build a set of wheels and I don't use
tubeless and have clinchers. Seems most now are
tubeless and some have holes to drive spokes through
the rim and others don't. Anyone know which ones can
have regular spoke holes and still be tubeless? My rim
choices are

DT Swiss 411 or the 460
H and Son Archetype if I can find them
Possibly Velocity..........what do you like A23
HED
Kinlin

Basically I want to build a decent 32 spoke rim with
Shimano Ultegra hubs radial front 3 cross rear. Not
much in stock in most places. Finally how hard is it
to build a wheel on tubeless with no spoke holes on
outside?

Deacon Mark

I got 10,000 miles on a Velocity A23 "OC" rim with 24
spokes, 170lb/77kg
rider. 24 spokes was pushing it, so I'm reasonably
happy with that
performance (rim died of cracks at the nipple holes).

Replaced with the DT 411 "OC" rim, still 24 spokes. DT
"requires" and
supplies nipple washers with the rim, use 'em, it might
hold off the cracks.

Both built well and held their true (well, the A23 was
stable up to its
demise).

Don't recall if you've told us your weight, but I
expect either the A23
or DT 411 would give many many years of service in 32
spoke.

PS - I haven't tried tubeless tires yet.
I can't find if the DT rim is supposed to be "tubeless
ready" or not
(i.e. can be run tubeless with the correct rim liner),
but it works fine
with clinchers & tubes, and tires don't fit
unreasonably tight either.

Same for the A23.

Mark J.
Do Velocity a23 in the OC rear and front have
traditional spoke holes to work with?

Deacon Mark

Yes they do. And American made.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
While I am at it the wheel I want to replace is Kinlin xc
279. They have about 10k miles on them and the rear wheel
has a hop now. I de-tensioned the spokes. I manage to get
the wheel centered and laterally pretty true certainly
within in .5 mm. The tension on the drive side is pretty
consistent on Park tool at all 23-25. The non-drive side
is a bit more out in place going farther and 20% off in
places. The problem is the hop is back in the wheel. To
correct it my guess is now way to really do this the rim
is just not able. Seems to me that radial truing is the
hardest and if off too much compared to the rest I should
get new rim? Correct? The bike actually rides fine with it
I just don't like the hop I can feel it riding.

Deacon Mark


My experience has been that a hop you can feel while riding
is often a deformed/bent rim.* The truing experience you
describe also suggests bent rim.* Except for emergency
kludges, bent rim means time for a new rim.* It happens,
enjoy building the new one.* Make sure to get tension high
enough, but 23-25 Park reading on 2mm spokes is plenty high.

Mark J.


At the upper end of that yes with 2mm straight spokes.

Velocity recommends 120nm (+/-10). '23' on the Park scale is only 95nm.


You mean 95 kgf, I think.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #19  
Old September 9th 20, 02:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,114
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On 9/8/2020 7:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/8/2020 8:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/8/2020 7:01 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/8/2020 3:47 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 3:51:11 PM UTC-5, AMuzi
wrote:
On 9/8/2020 2:15 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-5, Mark
J. wrote:
On 9/8/2020 7:30 AM, wrote:
I want to build a set of wheels and I don't use
tubeless and have clinchers. Seems most now are
tubeless and some have holes to drive spokes through
the rim and others don't. Anyone know which ones can
have regular spoke holes and still be tubeless? My rim
choices are

DT Swiss 411 or the 460
H and Son Archetype if I can find them
Possibly Velocity..........what do you like A23
HED
Kinlin

Basically I want to build a decent 32 spoke rim with
Shimano Ultegra hubs radial front 3 cross rear. Not
much in stock in most places. Finally how hard is it
to build a wheel on tubeless with no spoke holes on
outside?

Deacon Mark

I got 10,000 miles on a Velocity A23 "OC" rim with 24
spokes, 170lb/77kg
rider. 24 spokes was pushing it, so I'm reasonably
happy with that
performance (rim died of cracks at the nipple holes).

Replaced with the DT 411 "OC" rim, still 24 spokes. DT
"requires" and
supplies nipple washers with the rim, use 'em, it might
hold off the cracks.

Both built well and held their true (well, the A23 was
stable up to its
demise).

Don't recall if you've told us your weight, but I
expect either the A23
or DT 411 would give many many years of service in 32
spoke.

PS - I haven't tried tubeless tires yet.
I can't find if the DT rim is supposed to be "tubeless
ready" or not
(i.e. can be run tubeless with the correct rim liner),
but it works fine
with clinchers & tubes, and tires don't fit
unreasonably tight either.

Same for the A23.

Mark J.
Do Velocity a23 in the OC rear and front have
traditional spoke holes to work with?

Deacon Mark

Yes they do. And American made.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
While I am at it the wheel I want to replace is Kinlin xc
279. They have about 10k miles on them and the rear wheel
has a hop now. I de-tensioned the spokes. I manage to get
the wheel centered and laterally pretty true certainly
within in .5 mm. The tension on the drive side is pretty
consistent on Park tool at all 23-25. The non-drive side
is a bit more out in place going farther and 20% off in
places. The problem is the hop is back in the wheel. To
correct it my guess is now way to really do this the rim
is just not able. Seems to me that radial truing is the
hardest and if off too much compared to the rest I should
get new rim? Correct? The bike actually rides fine with it
I just don't like the hop I can feel it riding.

Deacon Mark


My experience has been that a hop you can feel while riding
is often a deformed/bent rim. The truing experience you
describe also suggests bent rim. Except for emergency
kludges, bent rim means time for a new rim. It happens,
enjoy building the new one. Make sure to get tension high
enough, but 23-25 Park reading on 2mm spokes is plenty high.

Mark J.


At the upper end of that yes with 2mm straight spokes.

Velocity recommends 120nm (+/-10). '23' on the Park scale
is only 95nm.


You mean 95 kgf, I think.


d'oh.
Thank you

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #20  
Old September 9th 20, 05:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 20
Default Building wheels on tubeless rims using tube

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 8:28:27 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/8/2020 7:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/8/2020 8:27 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/8/2020 7:01 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/8/2020 3:47 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 3:51:11 PM UTC-5, AMuzi
wrote:
On 9/8/2020 2:15 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 11:46:38 AM UTC-5, Mark
J. wrote:
On 9/8/2020 7:30 AM, wrote:
I want to build a set of wheels and I don't use
tubeless and have clinchers. Seems most now are
tubeless and some have holes to drive spokes through
the rim and others don't. Anyone know which ones can
have regular spoke holes and still be tubeless? My rim
choices are

DT Swiss 411 or the 460
H and Son Archetype if I can find them
Possibly Velocity..........what do you like A23
HED
Kinlin

Basically I want to build a decent 32 spoke rim with
Shimano Ultegra hubs radial front 3 cross rear. Not
much in stock in most places. Finally how hard is it
to build a wheel on tubeless with no spoke holes on
outside?

Deacon Mark

I got 10,000 miles on a Velocity A23 "OC" rim with 24
spokes, 170lb/77kg
rider. 24 spokes was pushing it, so I'm reasonably
happy with that
performance (rim died of cracks at the nipple holes).

Replaced with the DT 411 "OC" rim, still 24 spokes. DT
"requires" and
supplies nipple washers with the rim, use 'em, it might
hold off the cracks.

Both built well and held their true (well, the A23 was
stable up to its
demise).

Don't recall if you've told us your weight, but I
expect either the A23
or DT 411 would give many many years of service in 32
spoke.

PS - I haven't tried tubeless tires yet.
I can't find if the DT rim is supposed to be "tubeless
ready" or not
(i.e. can be run tubeless with the correct rim liner),
but it works fine
with clinchers & tubes, and tires don't fit
unreasonably tight either.

Same for the A23.

Mark J.
Do Velocity a23 in the OC rear and front have
traditional spoke holes to work with?

Deacon Mark

Yes they do. And American made.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
While I am at it the wheel I want to replace is Kinlin xc
279. They have about 10k miles on them and the rear wheel
has a hop now. I de-tensioned the spokes. I manage to get
the wheel centered and laterally pretty true certainly
within in .5 mm. The tension on the drive side is pretty
consistent on Park tool at all 23-25. The non-drive side
is a bit more out in place going farther and 20% off in
places. The problem is the hop is back in the wheel. To
correct it my guess is now way to really do this the rim
is just not able. Seems to me that radial truing is the
hardest and if off too much compared to the rest I should
get new rim? Correct? The bike actually rides fine with it
I just don't like the hop I can feel it riding.

Deacon Mark


My experience has been that a hop you can feel while riding
is often a deformed/bent rim. The truing experience you
describe also suggests bent rim. Except for emergency
kludges, bent rim means time for a new rim. It happens,
enjoy building the new one. Make sure to get tension high
enough, but 23-25 Park reading on 2mm spokes is plenty high.

Mark J.

At the upper end of that yes with 2mm straight spokes.

Velocity recommends 120nm (+/-10). '23' on the Park scale
is only 95nm.


You mean 95 kgf, I think.


d'oh.
Thank you
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Ok so I can rebuild the wheel and the spokes are good and the nipples. I cannot get a Kinlin xc 279 rim anymore. The ERD is 583 so checking around I see a DT Swiss 585 rim is cheap at $45 and the ERM is 282. If i rebuild using this rim will it probably work? What to the Las Vegas odds makers give me on the success of 1mm off. Could go with a dtswiss 520 rim at 584 but these are more money and pinned joint not welded.

Deacon Mark
 




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