Data on things

On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 4:52:39 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/7/2021 2:43 PM, Mark cleary wrote:
Last 2 rides outside both 51 and then 52 miles I used my Garmin Speed sensor and the cadence sensor. I have never used a cadence sensor at least outdoors off the trainer. The data has me wondering about what they call average cadence.

I assume overall average cadence is the strokes you took and then divide by the time spent riding? I am not sure but on Garmin Connect my average cadence was 73 and on Strava and Ride With the GPS is was 79. That is a pretty big difference. Today is was 70 on Garmin Connect and 77 on Strava and Ride with GPS. Not sure what strava reads but not Garmin Connect whichI thought would take precedence.

My overall average speed as 16.7 for the 51 mile ride and 16.6 for the 52 mile ride. I did not stop during the ride or even unclip both rides. There was no wind really but I froze and ass off at 28 degrees. Not complaining but it drains you for any kind of real speed. I always thought I was pretty much a spinner. I don't wear chains out fast or am hard on the drive train. I guess I coast to much or I just think I am a spinner.
Deacon Mark

I can't answer your question.

Rather than buy two devices to tell me 'you're not doing it
right', I just ask the girlfriend.


HAH! Same here, except I usually don't need to ask, she's not shy about offering her critique

On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 5:49:39 PM UTC-5, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/7/2021 12:43 PM, Mark cleary wrote:
Last 2 rides outside both 51 and then 52 miles I used my Garmin Speed sensor and the cadence sensor. I have never used a cadence sensor at least outdoors off the trainer. The data has me wondering about what they call average cadence.

I assume overall average cadence is the strokes you took and then divide by the time spent riding? I am not sure but on Garmin Connect my average cadence was 73 and on Strava and Ride With the GPS is was 79. That is a pretty big difference. Today is was 70 on Garmin Connect and 77 on Strava and Ride with GPS. Not sure what strava reads but not Garmin Connect whichI thought would take precedence.

My overall average speed as 16.7 for the 51 mile ride and 16.6 for the 52 mile ride. I did not stop during the ride or even unclip both rides. There was no wind really but I froze and ass off at 28 degrees. Not complaining but it drains you for any kind of real speed. I always thought I was pretty much a spinner. I don't wear chains out fast or am hard on the drive train. I guess I coast to much or I just think I am a spinner.
Deacon Mark

I'm pretty sure my Garmin Edge computer has a setting to average cadence
only over time that I'm pedaling, so to omit coasting downhill, for
example. This seems a sensible option to me; I want to know how fast
I'm spinning *when* I'm pedaling, not a calculation affected by how much
of my ride is coasting.

I'm sure that the Garmin's detection of coasting is a bit fuzzy, also.

Mark J.

If you have a method of detecting cadence, detecting coasting really shouldn't be fuzzy. If you're moving and not pedaling, you're coasting. Crank-based meters will always be able to detect coasting. Bottom Bracket models maybe less so, but even a rear hub power meter (like a powertap) can detect pedaling dynamics and come up with a number. It might be be very accurate, but it can tell whether you are pedaling or coasting. T

Am 11.03.2021 um 18:00 schrieb :
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 12:42:50 PM UTC-5,
wrote:

I think it is personal but the general consensus is that spinning
is something around 100 rpm. For me that is difficult and I would
change gear before that. I'm very comfortable between 80-90 rpm and
when I have the idea that I'm in my comfort zone and I look on my
display I am around 85 rpm.

It depends on the riding style, but that's about correct for a
recreational/touring cyclist, Lou. Competitive riders tend to ride at
a higher cadence, an average is about 95 for us. I personally tend to
average around 100, though as I'm getting older it's been dropping.
These past few years have seen fewer and fewer rides in the high
90's. I still do high cadence workouts though, it's useful for
sprinting.

On the recumbent, I used to average well over 100, on the gravel bike
it's significantly less.

On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 3:43:15 PM UTC-5, Mark cleary wrote:
Last 2 rides outside both 51 and then 52 miles I used my Garmin Speed sensor and the cadence sensor. I have never used a cadence sensor at least outdoors off the trainer. The data has me wondering about what they call average cadence.

I assume overall average cadence is the strokes you took and then divide by the time spent riding? I am not sure but on Garmin Connect my average cadence was 73 and on Strava and Ride With the GPS is was 79. That is a pretty big difference. Today is was 70 on Garmin Connect and 77 on Strava and Ride with GPS. Not sure what strava reads but not Garmin Connect whichI thought would take precedence.

My overall average speed as 16.7 for the 51 mile ride and 16.6 for the 52 mile ride. I did not stop during the ride or even unclip both rides. There was no wind really but I froze and ass off at 28 degrees. Not complaining but it drains you for any kind of real speed. I always thought I was pretty much a spinner. I don't wear chains out fast or am hard on the drive train.. I guess I coast to much or I just think I am a spinner.
Deacon Mark

it probably has to do with how many zeros are averaged in, but one question: how is the strava getting the cadence data? Are you uploading from the garmin after the ride, or is it measuring from a sensor during the ride?

Beyond that, Lou is right, a cadence of mid 70's isn't anywhere close to 'spinning'. A competitive cyclist generally spins closer to 100, so in their world an average of 100 is pretty normal. Spinning comes with a metabolic cost though. Some people (like most elite riders) have an ability to process oxygen at a higher rate, and can spin faster than others with as much efficiency, but as with all things, there's a bell curve with what is metabolically efficient. For most non-elite riders, trying to keep an average cadence in the high 90's is too inefficient, but it _is_ trainable. Fast-twitch vs slow-twitch muscle fibers has a lot to do with it, as well as other physiological factors like leg length. Also notable is the crank length - longer cranks may give you better leverage at a low cadence, but you will always need more leg speed for the same cadence with a longer crank, so this doesn't work well at higher cadences obviously. There are literally hundreds of white papers from exercise physiologists and Kinesiologists on metabolic efficiency vs cycling cadence. Coaches for professional riders do complete metabolic workups in order to determine their optimum cadence versus power. Even still, you will always see the better climbers maintaining a higher cadence than a non-climber.

On 3/11/2021 12:00 PM, wrote:
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 12:42:50 PM UTC-5, wrote:

I think it is personal but the general consensus is that spinning is something around 100 rpm.
For me that is difficult and I would change gear before that. I'm very comfortable between 80-90
rpm and when I have the idea that I'm in my comfort zone and I look on my display I am around 85 rpm.

Lou

It depends on the riding style, but that's about correct for a recreational/touring cyclist, Lou. Competitive riders tend to ride at a higher cadence, an average is about 95 for us. I personally tend to average around 100, though as I'm getting older it's been dropping. These past few years have seen fewer and fewer rides in the high 90's. I still do high cadence workouts though, it's useful for sprinting.

My cadence has dropped over the decades. I wonder if this is a normal
effect of aging?

But I'll note, I have a cadence readout on only our tandem, where
cadence is a compromise between me and my lower-cadence wife. We usually
crank low 70s.

On other bikes, my only cadence readout is/was to count revs for six
seconds and multiply by ten. But I used to be mostly low to mid 80s,
except about 95 for time trials.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 12:40:00 PM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 11.03.2021 um 18:00 schrieb :
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 12:42:50 PM UTC-5,
wrote:

I think it is personal but the general consensus is that spinning
is something around 100 rpm. For me that is difficult and I would
change gear before that. I'm very comfortable between 80-90 rpm and
when I have the idea that I'm in my comfort zone and I look on my
display I am around 85 rpm.

It depends on the riding style, but that's about correct for a
recreational/touring cyclist, Lou. Competitive riders tend to ride at
a higher cadence, an average is about 95 for us. I personally tend to
average around 100, though as I'm getting older it's been dropping.
These past few years have seen fewer and fewer rides in the high
90's. I still do high cadence workouts though, it's useful for
sprinting.

On the recumbent, I used to average well over 100, on the gravel bike
it's significantly less.

Interesting, I would have thought the opposite because of how you're always pushing against the seat back on the recumbent, but I've never really looked into it.

On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 9:50:01 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/11/2021 12:00 PM, wrote:
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 12:42:50 PM UTC-5, wrote:

I think it is personal but the general consensus is that spinning is something around 100 rpm.
For me that is difficult and I would change gear before that. I'm very comfortable between 80-90
rpm and when I have the idea that I'm in my comfort zone and I look on my display I am around 85 rpm.

Lou

It depends on the riding style, but that's about correct for a recreational/touring cyclist, Lou. Competitive riders tend to ride at a higher cadence, an average is about 95 for us. I personally tend to average around 100, though as I'm getting older it's been dropping. These past few years have seen fewer and fewer rides in the high 90's. I still do high cadence workouts though, it's useful for sprinting.
My cadence has dropped over the decades. I wonder if this is a normal
effect of aging?

But I'll note, I have a cadence readout on only our tandem, where
cadence is a compromise between me and my lower-cadence wife. We usually
crank low 70s.

On other bikes, my only cadence readout is/was to count revs for six
seconds and multiply by ten. But I used to be mostly low to mid 80s,
except about 95 for time trials.

My cadence has increased, which is an effect of aging -- and knees that are nearing replacement. I was a low-cadence grinder for decades, and now I'm paying the price. Diminished quad strength also demands lower gears and higher cadence. Higher cadence -- unfortunately -- requires greater cardio-pulmonary output. And then you die. It's all fu***** sunshine and rainbows from hear on out.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 12:50:01 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:

My cadence has dropped over the decades. I wonder if this is a normal
effect of aging?

Yes, it is. Joel Friel writes about it in Fast Over Fifty. It's a well-documented effect in sports physiology in general. As you age, your ability to process oxygen drops, and maintaining high metabolic efforts suffers.

But I'll note, I have a cadence readout on only our tandem, where
cadence is a compromise between me and my lower-cadence wife. We usually
crank low 70s.

On other bikes, my only cadence readout is/was to count revs for six
seconds and multiply by ten. But I used to be mostly low to mid 80s,
except about 95 for time trials.

95 is about average for time trialing.

Am 11.03.2021 um 18:55 schrieb :
On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 12:40:00 PM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 11.03.2021 um 18:00 schrieb :
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 12:42:50 PM UTC-5,
wrote:

I think it is personal but the general consensus is that
spinning is something around 100 rpm. For me that is difficult
and I would change gear before that. I'm very comfortable
between 80-90 rpm and when I have the idea that I'm in my
comfort zone and I look on my display I am around 85 rpm.

It depends on the riding style, but that's about correct for a
recreational/touring cyclist, Lou. Competitive riders tend to
ride at a higher cadence, an average is about 95 for us. I
personally tend to average around 100, though as I'm getting
older it's been dropping. These past few years have seen fewer
and fewer rides in the high 90's. I still do high cadence
workouts though, it's useful for sprinting.

On the recumbent, I used to average well over 100, on the gravel
bike it's significantly less.

Interesting, I would have thought the opposite because of how you're
always pushing against the seat back on the recumbent, but I've never
really looked into it.

Well, there's no weight on the legs, I can move them without moving the
upper body at all. On the upright, you typically have some hip movement
during pedalling.

On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 1:18:06 PM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 11.03.2021 um 18:55 schrieb :
On Thursday, March 11, 2021 at 12:40:00 PM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 11.03.2021 um 18:00 schrieb :
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 12:42:50 PM UTC-5,
wrote:

I think it is personal but the general consensus is that
spinning is something around 100 rpm. For me that is difficult
and I would change gear before that. I'm very comfortable
between 80-90 rpm and when I have the idea that I'm in my
comfort zone and I look on my display I am around 85 rpm.

It depends on the riding style, but that's about correct for a
recreational/touring cyclist, Lou. Competitive riders tend to
ride at a higher cadence, an average is about 95 for us. I
personally tend to average around 100, though as I'm getting
older it's been dropping. These past few years have seen fewer
and fewer rides in the high 90's. I still do high cadence
workouts though, it's useful for sprinting.

On the recumbent, I used to average well over 100, on the gravel
bike it's significantly less.

Interesting, I would have thought the opposite because of how you're
always pushing against the seat back on the recumbent, but I've never
really looked into it.
Well, there's no weight on the legs, I can move them without moving the
upper body at all. On the upright, you typically have some hip movement
during pedalling.

hmmm... there's no real weight on the legs on a road bike either when you're seated. The greater hip movement is more likely from the lack of the seat back. I'm thinking it has more to do with the biomechanics involved with the relationship between the hips, knees, and bottom bracket. On a road bike it's easier to spin when you're forward on the seat, effectively opening up the hip angle.