Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

On 3/21/2018 12:20 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I'm about to walk over to the Bike Gallery to buy a tube and some glue (flat on the way to work, old glue tube dried out and wrong size spare tube). I might just get the glue. Anyway, I'll get scalped, but for what -- a $1? They're nice guys and worked hard to coordinate the delivery of my Trek from Trek Co. Shout out to Justin. Anyway, I get endless free advice from them, and it does not pain me to pay a little more than internet bargain-basement prices for disposables. Yes, there is a point when it becomes highway robbery for a tube, but BG is not that kind of shop. You also have to look at it as an average. I've gotten some killer sale-table deals from BG.

Bike Gallery was awesome the last time I visited them in around 1992.

I do hate to get scalped on stuff like tubes. When a high quality tube
that I can get for $3 ends up costing $10, that's painful. I try to keep
a good stock of tubes in all the different sizes for my fleet.

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 12:30:10 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-21 12:20, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 11:39:48 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-21 08:49, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper
when buying one online?

Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy
from a supplier of bicycle equipment.


But is sez "bike bottle" ...

https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26

I guess they need to learn and test their designs before
release.


I like the Clean Designs bottle
https://www.cleanbottle.com/


30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though.
Thanks, will look for that brand then.


Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle?
https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg


I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just
buy more from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove.

The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real
standard. Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well,
maybe with the exception of some Contis). I guess nobody
knows.

There is a standard -- 73mm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage You bought a ****ty
water bottle from an outdoor equipment company that probably drew
a bottle on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE plastic bottle
manufacturer in PRC and then marketed the results as a bicycle
water bottle. Its like complaining about Walmart bikes. I
wouldn't be surprised if the bottle is radioactive and full of
carcinogens.

What's more surprising to me is that your cages cannot
accommodate a 1mm variance.


It's almost 2mm and as I wrote the indentation is also way off.


You need better cages. You can also avoid the whole issue by
going over to your lauded trail-end bike shop, Sam's Town
Cyclery, and buying bottles that you know will fit. Fly the
colors! Support your LBS.


I will if his prices are reasonable and he has 25oz bottles. His
web site is, ahem, not quite there yet.

Who cares about price! The spread couldn't be more than a buck or
two, and you want to support the shop. You get cool looking bottles
with graphics that make you part of the Sam's Town Cyclery in-crowd.
People will come up to you on the trail while you're petting horses
and want to talk about Sam's Town. You'll make friends and influence
people.


For about 20-30 rides, then the bottle looks blackish and sand-blasted
and nothing will be readable.


I'm about to walk over to the Bike Gallery to buy a tube and some
glue (flat on the way to work, old glue tube dried out and wrong size
spare tube). I might just get the glue. Anyway, I'll get scalped,
but for what -- a $1? They're nice guys and worked hard to coordinate
the delivery of my Trek from Trek Co. Shout out to Justin. Anyway, I
get endless free advice from them, and it does not pain me to pay a
little more than internet bargain-basement prices for disposables.
Yes, there is a point when it becomes highway robbery for a tube, but
BG is not that kind of shop. You also have to look at it as an
average. I've gotten some killer sale-table deals from BG.


I don't mind either if it's a couple of buck more. Got to support the
local guys which is why I bought my MTB locally for about $100 more
versus online. What I do mind is if stuff costs 5x or more versus
online. As is often the case with brake pads, caliper extenders, lights
and so on.

And then there is just getting screwed by everyone on price, i.e., things that used to be cheap are expensive everywhere. For example, at Bike Gallery:

1. 5g tube of Rema glue: $2.50. Crap! So, on line, $5.92 plus free shipping at Amazon. $2.95 at Tree Fort. http://www.treefortbikes.com/product...Gram-Tube.html $8.95 plus free shipping at Niagra. https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...id-5-gram-tube $3.99 at Universal across town. Incroyable! What is up with that?


2.

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 1:59:47 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 12:30:10 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-21 12:20, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 11:39:48 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-21 08:49, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper
when buying one online?

Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy
from a supplier of bicycle equipment.


But is sez "bike bottle" ...

https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26

I guess they need to learn and test their designs before
release.


I like the Clean Designs bottle
https://www.cleanbottle.com/


30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though.
Thanks, will look for that brand then.


Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle?
https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg


I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just
buy more from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove.

The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real
standard. Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well,
maybe with the exception of some Contis). I guess nobody
knows.

There is a standard -- 73mm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage You bought a ****ty
water bottle from an outdoor equipment company that probably drew
a bottle on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE plastic bottle
manufacturer in PRC and then marketed the results as a bicycle
water bottle. Its like complaining about Walmart bikes. I
wouldn't be surprised if the bottle is radioactive and full of
carcinogens.

What's more surprising to me is that your cages cannot
accommodate a 1mm variance.


It's almost 2mm and as I wrote the indentation is also way off.


You need better cages. You can also avoid the whole issue by
going over to your lauded trail-end bike shop, Sam's Town
Cyclery, and buying bottles that you know will fit. Fly the
colors! Support your LBS.


I will if his prices are reasonable and he has 25oz bottles. His
web site is, ahem, not quite there yet.

Who cares about price! The spread couldn't be more than a buck or
two, and you want to support the shop. You get cool looking bottles
with graphics that make you part of the Sam's Town Cyclery in-crowd.
People will come up to you on the trail while you're petting horses
and want to talk about Sam's Town. You'll make friends and influence
people.


For about 20-30 rides, then the bottle looks blackish and sand-blasted
and nothing will be readable.


I'm about to walk over to the Bike Gallery to buy a tube and some
glue (flat on the way to work, old glue tube dried out and wrong size
spare tube). I might just get the glue. Anyway, I'll get scalped,
but for what -- a $1? They're nice guys and worked hard to coordinate
the delivery of my Trek from Trek Co. Shout out to Justin. Anyway, I
get endless free advice from them, and it does not pain me to pay a
little more than internet bargain-basement prices for disposables.
Yes, there is a point when it becomes highway robbery for a tube, but
BG is not that kind of shop. You also have to look at it as an
average. I've gotten some killer sale-table deals from BG.


I don't mind either if it's a couple of buck more. Got to support the
local guys which is why I bought my MTB locally for about $100 more
versus online. What I do mind is if stuff costs 5x or more versus
online. As is often the case with brake pads, caliper extenders, lights
and so on.

And then there is just getting screwed by everyone on price, i.e., things that used to be cheap are expensive everywhere. For example, at Bike Gallery:

1. 5g tube of Rema glue: $2.50. Crap! So, on line, $5.92 plus free shipping at Amazon. $2.95 at Tree Fort. http://www.treefortbikes.com/product...Gram-Tube.html $8.95 plus free shipping at Niagra. https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...id-5-gram-tube $3.99 at Universal across town. Incroyable! What is up with that?


2.

Ooops, too soon. 2. 28-32mm tube 48mm presta removable core (Bontrager): $7.50. Ah Chihuahua! I used to get tubes for $.99 at Nashbar in bulk. Anyway, QBP version from Colorado Cyclist $7.95 $8 Bikewagon (QBP version). $6 for the Conti version over at Biketires Direct on sale: https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...3858+3859+3860 Waaaah! I should have price matched! I always forget to price match. But assuming no price match, I was still in the ball park. These stupid little things have just gotten ridiculously expensive.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 3/21/2018 2:08 PM, jbeattie wrote:
Ah Chihuahua! I used to get tubes for $.99 at Nashbar in bulk. Anyway, QBP version from Colorado Cyclist $7.95 $8 Bikewagon (QBP version). $6 for the Conti version over at Biketires Direct on sale: https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...3858+3859+3860 Waaaah! I should have price matched! I always forget to price match. But assuming no price match, I was still in the ball park. These stupid little things have just gotten ridiculously expensive.

If only a shop could sell high quantities of high-margin low-priced
stuff like tires and tubes.

OTOH, perhaps a shop that decided to sell tubes at a lower price could
get more people to come into the shop rather than stocking up on tubes
from an on-line source or from going to Wal-Mart for them.

On 3/21/2018 2:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-21 08:14, Frank Krygowski wrote:


Why is bicycle technology always so far behind car technology?


I don't know but it usually is, by decades.

But it just occurred to me: The bottle (or cup) holders in my car are
not adjustable.

Damn. I should have bought a different car.


--
- Frank Krygowski

jbeattie writes:

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when buying one
online?

Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a supplier
of bicycle equipment.


But is sez "bike bottle" ...

https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26

I guess they need to learn and test their designs before release.


I like the Clean Designs bottle https://www.cleanbottle.com/


30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks, will look
for that brand then.


Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle?
https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg


I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy more
from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove.

The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real standard.
Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe with the exception
of some Contis). I guess nobody knows.

There is a standard -- 73mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage
You bought a ****ty water bottle from an outdoor equipment company
that probably drew a bottle on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE
plastic bottle manufacturer in PRC and then marketed the results as a
bicycle water bottle. Its like complaining about Walmart bikes. I
wouldn't be surprised if the bottle is radioactive and full of
carcinogens.

Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see any reference to an
outside document.

What's more surprising to me is that your cages cannot accommodate a
1mm variance. You need better cages. You can also avoid the whole
issue by going over to your lauded trail-end bike shop, Sam's Town
Cyclery, and buying bottles that you know will fit. Fly the colors!
Support your LBS.

-- Jay Beattie.

--

Radey Shouman wrote:

Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see
any reference to an outside document.

Why not? Are we supposed to put more stock in
people who first boast of their standards
making the world better, then won't even reveal
their standards free of charge when it is just
a matter of duplicating a bunch of 0s and 1s on
a web server?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On 2018-03-21 13:33, sms wrote:
On 3/21/2018 12:20 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I'm about to walk over to the Bike Gallery to buy a tube and some glue
(flat on the way to work, old glue tube dried out and wrong size spare
tube). I might just get the glue. Anyway, I'll get scalped, but for
what -- a $1? They're nice guys and worked hard to coordinate the
delivery of my Trek from Trek Co. Shout out to Justin. Anyway, I get
endless free advice from them, and it does not pain me to pay a little
more than internet bargain-basement prices for disposables. Yes, there
is a point when it becomes highway robbery for a tube, but BG is not
that kind of shop. You also have to look at it as an average. I've
gotten some killer sale-table deals from BG.

Bike Gallery was awesome the last time I visited them in around 1992.

I do hate to get scalped on stuff like tubes. When a high quality tube
that I can get for $3 ends up costing $10, that's painful. I try to keep
a good stock of tubes in all the different sizes for my fleet.


I solved that problem years ago by buying tubes for around $15 each with
0.120" wall thickness for the road bike, 0.160" for the MTB, plus tire
liner, plus another medium thickness tube into which the tire liner is
slid on the MTB (to reduce chafing). This resulted in no more flats. I
simply can't stand being inconvenienced by a flat. The only failures I
had were, for example, sidewall blowouts on those #^%&@!! Gatorskins.

Of course, one cannot typically find those tubes in a bike shop. They
only carry the regular fare and the slime stuff, neither of which I
found to be adequate. So they kind of force you onto the web where all
this is easily obtainable.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2018-03-21 14:40, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/21/2018 2:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-21 08:14, Frank Krygowski wrote:


Why is bicycle technology always so far behind car technology?


I don't know but it usually is, by decades.

But it just occurred to me: The bottle (or cup) holders in my car are
not adjustable.

Damn. I should have bought a different car.


For cars there is nearly always help:

https://cars.statesman.com/stories/5...r-s-cup-holder

Also, the industry does adhere to standards there. I couldn't believe it
when I saw it but even the big gulp "cup" that a friend bought with coke
in there at a gas station had a narrow extension at the bottom so it fit
the cup holder in his truck. No idea where all that coke went but when
we got to the trail head it was all gone.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 3/21/2018 4:08 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 1:59:47 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 12:30:10 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-21 12:20, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 11:39:48 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-21 08:49, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper
when buying one online?

Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy
from a supplier of bicycle equipment.


But is sez "bike bottle" ...

https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26

I guess they need to learn and test their designs before
release.


I like the Clean Designs bottle
https://www.cleanbottle.com/


30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though.
Thanks, will look for that brand then.


Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle?
https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg


I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just
buy more from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove.

The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real
standard. Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well,
maybe with the exception of some Contis). I guess nobody
knows.

There is a standard -- 73mm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage You bought a ****ty
water bottle from an outdoor equipment company that probably drew
a bottle on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE plastic bottle
manufacturer in PRC and then marketed the results as a bicycle
water bottle. Its like complaining about Walmart bikes. I
wouldn't be surprised if the bottle is radioactive and full of
carcinogens.

What's more surprising to me is that your cages cannot
accommodate a 1mm variance.


It's almost 2mm and as I wrote the indentation is also way off.


You need better cages. You can also avoid the whole issue by
going over to your lauded trail-end bike shop, Sam's Town
Cyclery, and buying bottles that you know will fit. Fly the
colors! Support your LBS.


I will if his prices are reasonable and he has 25oz bottles. His
web site is, ahem, not quite there yet.

Who cares about price! The spread couldn't be more than a buck or
two, and you want to support the shop. You get cool looking bottles
with graphics that make you part of the Sam's Town Cyclery in-crowd.
People will come up to you on the trail while you're petting horses
and want to talk about Sam's Town. You'll make friends and influence
people.


For about 20-30 rides, then the bottle looks blackish and sand-blasted
and nothing will be readable.


I'm about to walk over to the Bike Gallery to buy a tube and some
glue (flat on the way to work, old glue tube dried out and wrong size
spare tube). I might just get the glue. Anyway, I'll get scalped,
but for what -- a $1? They're nice guys and worked hard to coordinate
the delivery of my Trek from Trek Co. Shout out to Justin. Anyway, I
get endless free advice from them, and it does not pain me to pay a
little more than internet bargain-basement prices for disposables.
Yes, there is a point when it becomes highway robbery for a tube, but
BG is not that kind of shop. You also have to look at it as an
average. I've gotten some killer sale-table deals from BG.


I don't mind either if it's a couple of buck more. Got to support the
local guys which is why I bought my MTB locally for about $100 more
versus online. What I do mind is if stuff costs 5x or more versus
online. As is often the case with brake pads, caliper extenders, lights
and so on.

And then there is just getting screwed by everyone on price, i.e., things that used to be cheap are expensive everywhere. For example, at Bike Gallery:

1. 5g tube of Rema glue: $2.50. Crap! So, on line, $5.92 plus free shipping at Amazon. $2.95 at Tree Fort. http://www.treefortbikes.com/product...Gram-Tube.html $8.95 plus free shipping at Niagra. https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...id-5-gram-tube $3.99 at Universal across town. Incroyable! What is up with that?


2.

Ooops, too soon. 2. 28-32mm tube 48mm presta removable core (Bontrager): $7.50. Ah Chihuahua! I used to get tubes for $.99 at Nashbar in bulk. Anyway, QBP version from Colorado Cyclist $7.95 $8 Bikewagon (QBP version). $6 for the Conti version over at Biketires Direct on sale: https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...3858+3859+3860 Waaaah! I should have price matched! I always forget to price match. But assuming no price match, I was still in the ball park. These stupid little things have just gotten ridiculously expensive.


Bicycle tube valves are no longer made from free machining
brass[1] like other valves. The minuscule lead content
posed a risk that your children[2] might eat a bunch of
brass valves daily for years with possibly deleterious
outcome[3].

Rubber cement and worse tubular cement fell under different
regulation in, if I recall, 2015. Super duty rate and
reporting regulations now.

But hey it's for the children![4]

[1]Notice new color mark on the side of the valve stem.
[2]My daughter, heck even my grandsons, are smarter than
that. Maybe.
[3]No specific incident was ever cited in the regulation.
[4]Scary words, yes? Justifies damn near anything nowadays.
And yet I can't recall the last time I had to ride around
piles of children's bodies:
https://ourworldindata.org/wp-conten...since-1960.png

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971