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#11
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Florida 8-Year-Old Gets Traffic Ticket For Bike Mishap
Reading the account below I don't think things add up. It says the rear tire
hit the car, which I assume means that young Scott had almost missed the path of the car and got clipped at the last moment. If the rear tire was hit shouldn't the bike/rider have spun out of the path of the car to some degree, rather than up the hood? Young Scott also claims that he ran away. How does a kid, who according to the driver made a trip up the hood, run away from the accident with no injuries? In this case I think the driver is lying and hoping to get money for previous damage to the car. I do think the parents should pay the ticket and spend some time instructing their son about bicycle safety. As the father of an eight yo daughter myself I'd expect to do the same. "Doug Haxton" wrote in message ... "He's an 8-year-old child. He does not understand what the right of way is," She said. Scott was riding a bicycle in his neighborhood when he jumped a dirt mound with five of his friends, Bradenton Police Lt. Sam Campbell said. He crossed paths with a 2001 Nissan and the car clipped the rear tire of Scott's 5-pound, 16-inch BMX bicycle. Scott wasn't injured, but was cited by Officer Jeff Beckley for violating the right of way. "I'm doing OK," said Scott, who was not wearing a helmet during the accident. "I hit a little bit of his car, but then I just got off my bike and ran away." McIntosh said the two people in the Nissan claimed Scott flew up onto the hood of their car, causing $1,000 worth of damage. Campbell said that police estimated $500 and could not confirm whether Scott hit the hood. "His mother was apparently pretty upset with us," Campbell said. "But in this case, the child caused the accident by pulling out in front of the car. The driver didn't have time to react." Campbell said officers issue citations to many children throughout the year for not wearing helmets or for committing traffic violations on their bicycles. Officers draft the tickets in the child's name but usually expect the parents to pay them. If no one is cited during an accident, insurance companies will demand that vehicle owners pay for their damages even if they are not at fault. It is a liability as well as a safety issue, Campbell said. http://www.local6.com/news/2580655/detail.html Doug |
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#12
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8-Year-Old Gets Traffic Ticket / self-policing
What about a moped or a Harley? A Harley weighs several hundred pounds and
goes 6 times faster than an average cyclist. At 40 MPH a Harley has about 27 times the energy of an average cyclist, but still not enough to seriously threaten a car occupant. It's easy physics, backed up by thousands of accident statistics. These statistics would account for the oft-quoted but heretofore unseen "cyclist causes fatal car wreck" scenario. Just base the laws on physics and accurate accounting, not politics, which is more about the TV-based slow-motion hysteria we call modern American Society. Similar case in point: here in Florida, we have manatee zone speed laws based on antiquated wake control laws; regardless of the size, weight, draft, horsepower, propeller size, etc. of your boat. Physics means the longer the boat, the faster you can go before you hit hull speed and make a wake. Jet ski: 3-4 knots, 64 foot yacht: 10 knots. Same speed, jet ski gets fine. Physics kills people. Its like the old joke, the fall doesn't kill you - the sudden stop does. You don't change the laws, you just base the fines on the easy math of who is the risk to whom. Do you really think a traffic violation with a Cannodale and a Cadillac are the same thing? Maybe before I die I will see the beginning of a society that turns to their professors and physicians before their politicians on such issues. maybe "sbirn" wrote in message ... On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:19:36 GMT, Robert Haston wrote: Hummer. Personally I think bike tickets should be limited to the cost of requiring a cop to jack cyclists up, tell them at a high decibel level in front of everyone what morons they are to risk their lives, hand them a GOOD Why? What if it is a mo-ped? What about a motorcycle? Should Harley riders get the same warning as a cyclist? Is getting smacked by a car less risky on a street-legal dirt bike than on a mountain bike? Bikes are vehicles, just like any other. I think that selective enforcement is simply stupid. You can (and should) allow officer discretion, but that should be used based on the circumstances of the case and not the vehicle type invovled. This year alone, I've narrowly avoided being doored, side-swiped and cut off numerous times. I even had one driver get out of his car and grab my shoulder to try to pull me off my bike while I was at speed in the middle of a main downtown street. In the later case, a police report was filed. As much as these guys deserve whatever ticket is appropriate, so do the cyclists I see who run red lights, ride at road speeds on sidewalks and a host of other offenses I've seen. Incidentally, what happens when a cyclist cuts off a car and the driver causes a collision (maybe hits a pedestrian) trying to avoid the cyclist? Do you only start cracking down when it's too late? |
#13
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8-Year-Old Gets Traffic Ticket / self-policing
Robert,
Robert Haston wrote: ... Physics kills people. Its like the old joke, the fall doesn't kill you - the sudden stop does. You don't change the laws, you just base the fines on the easy math of who is the risk to whom. Do you really think a traffic violation with a Cannodale and a Cadillac are the same thing? Maybe before I die I will see the beginning of a society that turns to their professors and physicians before their politicians on such issues. Something to hope for. The only question who to put closer to the bottom of the consultancy list, politicians, economists or theologians. maybe I won't be holding my breath. Randall Schulz |
#14
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Florida 8-Year-Old Gets Traffic Ticket For Bike Mishap
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:06:14 GMT, Bill Z. wrote:
Since you don't know, the facts are that the person who causes damages is generally held responsible for the damages, either directly or through insurance. It depends upon insurance laws. Where I live, they have no-fault insurance. The idea being that your insurance company pays for your repairs no matter what. The only variable is who pays the deductible. If the police do not lay formal blame, you are on the hook for the deductible. I have no idea what the insurance laws are like in Florida, but then again, neither do you. All we know is that in this case, the officer obviously felt that the child violated traffic laws, obligating them to cite the child while they formally lay the blame for the accident on him. no grounds to write a citation. Citations are written only in extreme cases. What is extreme, a drunk driver? Running a stop sign? Failing to yeild and cutting someone off? What this kid did WAS a serious violation. Are you actually dumb enough to believe a newspaper account? The papers get the details wrong a large fraction of the time. While newspapers do sometimes make mistakes, I read that section of the article as largely paraphrasing the police. And as much as the press sometimes do get things wrong, in my experience, random people on the Internet who think they are lawyers tend to be incorrect even more often. They can't be compelled to pay *with* a civil suit if they don't have the assets. Suddenly you know these guys are poor? Anyway, assets do not have to be liquid. Items can be siezed. |
#15
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8-Year-Old Gets Traffic Ticket / self-policing
On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 01:32:57 GMT, Robert Haston wrote:
What about a moped or a Harley? A Harley weighs several hundred pounds and goes 6 times faster than an average cyclist. At 40 MPH a Harley has about Am I to believe you want to issue tickets based upon the weight of the vehicle? Should the cops carry a scale in the trunk? Sorry, but I really don't care what someone is driving. If you cause an accident, you deserve equal punishment regardless of your vehicle. If you happen to be on a bike instead of a car, it's just Darwinism in action. Just the other day I saw a car run a red light and almost t-bone someone. If the light runner was a Harley, I certainly would expect him to get just as harsh a punishment as the car driver might have. If you get a Harley smack in your door you are not going to escape unscathed. So maybe now it should be the weight of the vehicle with the injuries sustained taken into account? Thus, you're not as guilty if nobody gets hurt? It's just logic I simply don't get. |
#16
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Florida 8-Year-Old Gets Traffic Ticket For Bike Mishap
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#17
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Florida 8-Year-Old Gets Traffic Ticket For Bike Mishap
I ignored him after I whois-ed his 'nuclear biodome org'. It is just the
puffed up e-mail address of a troll. "Bill Z." wrote in message ... (sbirn) writes: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:06:14 GMT, Bill Z. wrote: Since you don't know, the facts are that the person who causes damages is generally held responsible for the damages, either directly or through insurance. It depends upon insurance laws. Where I live, they have no-fault insurance. The idea being that your insurance company pays for your repairs no matter what. The only variable is who pays the deductible. If the police do not lay formal blame, you are on the hook for the deductible. I have no idea what the insurance laws are like in Florida, but then again, neither do you. Then you shouldn't have been so rude, since you now admit that you don't have any idea. Also, I was describing general principles, and it is not necessary to issue a citation to assign blame: a police report can do that. If some other state is braindead in that regard, then the laws in that state need to be changed. no grounds to write a citation. Citations are written only in extreme cases. What is extreme, a drunk driver? Running a stop sign? Failing to yeild and cutting someone off? What this kid did WAS a serious violation. Around here, the threshold seems to be killing someone, unless an oficer observes the accident. Significant property damage does not suffice. While newspapers do sometimes make mistakes, I read that section of the article as largely paraphrasing the police. As a friend once told another friend about to be interviewed by the press, "now is your chance to be misquoted by the New York Times." It may have been a different paper, but, sure enough, he was misquoted (he was being interviewed about a research project and they frequently get technical details wrong.) Bill -- My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB |
#18
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8-Year-Old Gets Traffic Ticket / self-policing
No, knucklehead, the cop doesn't have to carry a scale. Unless we've gone
back to the days before Eli Whitney while I wasn't looking - manufactured products have a set weight. The cop gives out the ticket, the courthouse assess the exact fine. And as to the ubiquitous "cyclists causes an accident" scenario, I've never even heard of one. So you don't care what someone is driving? You don't care whether you are about to be T-boned by a moped or a semi? Thanks for proving my point about outdated, overly simplistic, unscientific road safety mentalities. "sbirn" wrote in message ... On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 01:32:57 GMT, Robert Haston wrote: What about a moped or a Harley? A Harley weighs several hundred pounds and goes 6 times faster than an average cyclist. At 40 MPH a Harley has about Am I to believe you want to issue tickets based upon the weight of the vehicle? Should the cops carry a scale in the trunk? Sorry, but I really don't care what someone is driving. If you cause an accident, you deserve equal punishment regardless of your vehicle. If you happen to be on a bike instead of a car, it's just Darwinism in action. Just the other day I saw a car run a red light and almost t-bone someone. If the light runner was a Harley, I certainly would expect him to get just as harsh a punishment as the car driver might have. If you get a Harley smack in your door you are not going to escape unscathed. So maybe now it should be the weight of the vehicle with the injuries sustained taken into account? Thus, you're not as guilty if nobody gets hurt? It's just logic I simply don't get. |
#19
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8-Year-Old Gets Traffic Ticket / self-policing
Bikes are vehicles, just like any other. I think that selective enforcement
is simply stupid. You can (and should) allow officer discretion, but that should be used based on the circumstances of the case and not the vehicle type invovled. The big difference is bikes do not have motors. That makes a big difference in terms of accident impact. For the most part they also don't travel at full city speed limits - often 20 mph or less they are travelling, which makes a traffic violation much less dangerous. |
#20
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Road fines, physics, and gas taxes
In reference to having bicycle and vehicle fines based on the threat they
impose other road users and accident statistics: Gas taxes and pay at the pump insurance help accomplish the same thing. If we all fought to eliminate property, sales and income taxes going to build roads, pay crossing guards, provide police and fire services for wrecks, spills, fires, etc. (the same sequestering the auto/road lobby did with gas taxes) these would be shifted to gas taxes. More people would cycle, and the incentive to buy big vehicles and drive them real fast would be decreased. One can hope anyway. "Tanya Quinn" wrote in message om... Bikes are vehicles, just like any other. I think that selective enforcement is simply stupid. You can (and should) allow officer discretion, but that should be used based on the circumstances of the case and not the vehicle type invovled. The big difference is bikes do not have motors. That makes a big difference in terms of accident impact. For the most part they also don't travel at full city speed limits - often 20 mph or less they are travelling, which makes a traffic violation much less dangerous. |
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