Night Riding Safety?

On 31 Jul 2003 05:00:10 GMT, (TBGibb) wrote:

In article ,
(Thunder9) writes:

You don't need an HID to "be seen" a simple 1.25 W halogen will serve
without
spending 30X as much.

I've read this before, and I don't buy this argument. The fact of the
matter is, most people even if they rode with no lights at all...
would never get into a serious or life threatening wreck. Similarly,
most airbags are never deployed. Yet they save lives, and increase
your odds of surviving "the big one" and with vastly reduced injury.

You don't buy which argument? The idea that a 1.25 W halogen will get a
driver's attention or that one should have an HID to be noticed?

Here is what I thought you were saying (I disagree with the first
statement, and thus with the conclusions that follow):

"A 1.25 W halogen is just as effecitve as HID in getting the attention
of drivers. So HID offers insignificant increases in safetey.
Therefore, the cost of HID is unjustified."

I apologize if I misunderstood you. Perhaps you can clarify.... and
explain why you think a 1.25 W halogen is just as good as HID for
getting the attention of drivers?

Regards,
Thunder9

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:14:41 GMT, (Thunder9) may
have said:

I see motorcyclists riding during the day time with their powerful
lights on.

In many states, this is mandatory. (It may be a Federal requirement,
but I believe it isn't as yet.)

So the reasoning goes, fork over the bucks and get a HID light. Maybe
even two (one for the handlebars, one for the helmet).

Former, good idea. Latter, bad idea, in my opinion, for the same
reasons already stated by other contributors.

So I'm thinking about getting just that, night rider blow torch and
storm. Cost a lot, sure. But how much is one's life and health
worth?

The answer to this question is, for the majority, "More than I can
afford, but I can't sit here and hide under a rock, either." Most
people will buy what they consider to be a good balance between their
needs and their budgets. For some, this is a roll of electrical tape
and a 2-AA Maglite. I will not disparage their choice, if that's all
they can provide.

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When I commute by bike during the wee hours of dark, I use a NightSun
headlamp, orange front flasher, red rear flasher, reflectors front and
rear, reflectorized leg bands (Nashbar makes a really nice BRIGHT set),
and special metal prism reflective tapes on my rims. 16 each, front and
rear, mounted on the face of the rims, between the spokes.

The rim reflectors are probably the best idea, they are seen from all
angles and create two distinct rotating circles of light. Unmistakably a
bicycle.

May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!
Chris

Chris'Z Corner
"The Website for the Common Bicyclist":
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:48:43 -0400 (EDT),
(Chris Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote:

When I commute by bike during the wee hours of dark, I use a NightSun
headlamp, orange front flasher, red rear flasher, reflectors front and
rear, reflectorized leg bands (Nashbar makes a really nice BRIGHT set),
and special metal prism reflective tapes on my rims. 16 each, front and
rear, mounted on the face of the rims, between the spokes.

The rim reflectors are probably the best idea, they are seen from all
angles and create two distinct rotating circles of light. Unmistakably a
bicycle.

Where do you get these from?

On 31 Jul 2003 20:46:45 GMT, (MikeYankee)
may have said:

IMHO the motorist issues are usually manageable with proper care. One common
problem (at least for me, in a rural area) is that cars too often do not dim
their lights for approaching cyclists. What I worry about most at night is
hitting an unseen pothole, branch, etc.

I think that at least in part, the light non-dimming may be in part
due to their not realizing that there's a bike behind that headlight.
It's probably going to continue to be a problem until there are more
bikes on the road, but in some cases, adding a front amber flasher may
help. I don't do any rural night riding at this point, so I have
nothing but my experience from the other side of the equation to offer
in that area. Sometimes *I* don't realize that a not-too-bright and
relatively slow-moving white lamp is a bike coming toward me until
it's way too late. When driving in a rural area, t's hard to judge
distance to a single point of light in the dark, and a bike headlight
is easy to mistake for a number of other things including a pedestrian
with a flashlight. (And if your roads are in the same kind of shape
as ours, getting blinded by high beams could be deadly; our pothole
committee has been installing some whoppers along the verges of late.)

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In article , (Thunder9) writes:
I apologize if I misunderstood you. Perhaps you can clarify.... and
explain why you think a 1.25 W halogen is just as good as HID for
getting the attention of drivers?

TBGibb wrote:
That's correct. The 1.25 W halogen stands out as a bright spot in the
darkness. Since it's moving from side to side as the rider manuvers the bike
it is adequate for "being seen." I don't find it to be much help in seeing the
road though.

There's being visible and there's grabbing your attention.

You can see a candle from 1/2 mile away in the dark.
You can also see a giant bonfire from roughly the same distance.

Which one do you notice first?

I'm guessing the brighter one. More light is more noticable.

--Bill Davidson
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I'm a 17 year veteran of usenet -- you'd think I'd be over it by now

(Thunder9) wrote in message ...
I want to do some night riding - mostly on the road, and some trail
riding. I'm new at this so I need some advice.

For the road, it seems that the more light the better - to be seen -
not necessarily for my own visibility.

I see motorcyclists riding during the day time with their powerful
lights on.

So the reasoning goes, fork over the bucks and get a HID light. Maybe
even two (one for the handlebars, one for the helmet).

So I'm thinking about getting just that, night rider blow torch and
storm. Cost a lot, sure. But how much is one's life and health
worth?

Also, is that kind of a dream set up for trails?

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Thunder9

FWIW, I was inches away from getting creamed by an SUV making a left
hand turn (The driver started making the turn about a half block too
early. I jumped off the bike and over to the curb. The SUV's tires
were inches from my bike's tires.). I had a single 1.5W CatEye and a
rear blinkie. Now I have two headlights PLUS a front yelllow blinkie,
as well as the rear red blinkie. I think that the yellow front
blinkie is the eye catcher, not necessarily the brightness of the
headlights (but I added the second headlight to hedge my bet!).

So, IMHO, you need:

* Enough illumination to see where you're going and to avoid road
obsticles.

* A blinkie light front AND rear so the point-n-click drivers see
something they aren't accustomed to.

* Enough reflective tape to make you feel better.

* Ride like you're invisible (as another poster said).

Happy Trails,
GW

Jay Beattie wrote:

I have
ridden with people with HIDs, and the light seemed rather odd to me --
it was blinding to took at, but it was not all that illuminating on the
roadway. Maybe it was a lense problem. A good bright flasher is a must.



I think it's because the light is heavy on the bluish part of the
spectrum. The low amount of yellow and red components does give a
certain feeling of ghostliness to the illumination. Stop signs, for
example, look grayish. Still plenty of light to see the road well
though, imo. Another result is that I find glass in the roadway less
noticeable and I think that has to do with less information reflected
back -- less chromatic refraction or "sparkle". If you shine a
monochromatic light into a prism you get no rainbow. These are minor
annoyances though, compared to what I feel is an outstanding advantage
in getting noticed by oncoming traffic and traffic approaching
intersections.

On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 07:20:49 GMT, John Albergo
wrote:



Jim Edwards wrote:

My thoughts... most danger is from cars coming up behind you.

In my experience the dangerous encounters are from cars entering the
side (sidestreet, parking lot, driveway), and also oncoming traffic
turning in front of you.



This concurs with my research on the Internet. The prevailing
research/wisdom indicates that most people are scared of getting hit
from behind, but the real danger is from side traffic or cars pulling
in front of you. Also, the cars coming from behind won't typically
crash right into you, but rather, go around you and then make a right
hand turn into you (according to my research). I suspect this is
partially due to the rider being too far to the right, out of fear of
getting hit from behind, thus allowing the car to pass with little
bearth and little conciousness of sharing the road.

I think its similar to the fear of flying. Statistically, flying is
safer than driving. But there is a sense of loss of control, and your
life is literally in the hands of another individual.

Regards,
Thunder9

I use a Fiamm Freeway Blaster - 132 decibels ... you can see it mounted
to the right of the big rectangular amber strobe, - and it gets some
serious attention. Saved my ass more times than I care to remember.

http://d21c.com/krnspn/PIC/bike1.jpg

All the stuff you see is powered by a 4.5 Ampere Hour 12-volt SLA
battery, and makes for fun nighttime riding.

Even in the daytime, you can see how bright the headlamp is.

Joe