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  #21  
Old June 2nd 19, 09:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Bicycle statistics

On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 4:25:03 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/2/2019 1:54 PM, Andy wrote:
Just go on the sidewalk for a while.


Riding on sidewalks can be OK occasionally. Unless there are
pedestrians, of course. Then you should not.

And unless there are signs, telephone poles or other close obstructions.
Don't let your handlebar clip those.

And don't let your tires come close to the side edge of the sidewalk.
Many of them feature sharp dropoffs. If you slip off, you're likely to
crash because the edge prevents you from maintaining balance.

Also watch for bumps caused by tree roots, cracks or heaves in the
pavement. It's common for concrete sidewalks to have sections that lift
up exposing sharp edges that can cause pinch flats or worse.

And watch for bumps or curbs at intersections. These days, many
sidewalks have ADA approved ramps, but many don't. Even if the ramps are
present, there can be edges from things like gutter pans.

Above all, be _extremely_ careful entering an intersection. Motorists
are not looking for someone entering the street from a sidewalk,
especially at any speed above 3 mph. Look _all_ directions for cars.
Stop and wait, or at least yield, if they're approaching.

And the same goes for driveways. You even need to watch over your
shoulder for turning motorists. They will cut across the sidewalk to
enter the driveway without noticing you. Also, motorists exiting will
probably not stop before crossing the sidewalk as they hurry to reach
the edge of the street.

Those latter two problems are much worse if you're traveling "wrong way"
on the sidewalk. Motorists expect all traffic to flow in the same
direction. If you're headed the opposite direction, they won't look and
won't notice you.

Other than that, sure, sidewalks are fine. Assuming you're not going
much faster than a pedestrian.

I'm not saying never use a sidewalk. There are about 100 feet of
sidewalk near me I ride pretty frequently because they eliminate lots of
delay and complication with a five lane highway.

But you'd better be knowledgeable and careful. Really careful.

--
- Frank Krygowski


A friend of mine was riding on the sidewalk in the dark early in the morning because someone stole his light. A cop gave him a ticket for riding on the sidewalk on a quiet main street/regional road in town even though there were no pedestrians around at all. Unlucky? Perhaps. What gets me is that I had another cop tell me that they preferred people to ride on the sidewalks.. I guess when it comes to enforcing the law it depends on whether the cop is a hawk or a dove.

Cheers
Ads
  #22  
Old June 2nd 19, 10:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Bicycle statistics

On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 9:59:43 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/2/2019 10:30 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/1/2019 7:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/1/2019 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 9:42:59 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 6/1/2019 3:02 AM,
wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 2:22:45 AM UTC+2,
wrote:
On Friday, May 31, 2019 at 2:48:36 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:

***** Average age of a bicyclist killed on US roads:
45 (36 in 2002)


Disregarding the "killed" part, this brings up a
question about the demographics of bicycling today.
Are all bicyclists getting older?* Is bicycling
becoming an older person activity?* Are youngsters not
taking up cycling?* I have friends with children in the
late teens and 20s age groups.* Some of the kids do
ride bikes.* But others, their kids do not ride.* Yet
they ride lots and lots.* I know on this forum some
people say their children or one child does ride.* But
how many on this forum have children who do not ride
ever?* Yet they do.

All kids in the Netherlands ride a bicycle at least up
to 18 years when they allowed to drive a car. Most of
the times they can't affort a car at that age so the
ride until they earn some money. After that they only
ride recreational or when it is more practical/faster.

"Back in my day" we didn't get driven around everywhere,
it was just
unthinkable that we would even ask to be driven somewhere
fairly close
to our homes. We rode our bikes. Maybe if it was pouring
rain our
parents would drive us. The times I was driven to
elementary school,
about four blocks away were rare.

In the city I'm in now, it's extremely rare for an
elementary school
student to ride a bike to school. It's still fairly
common in middle
school and high school, but not at the level it should
be. Traffic
around schools is insane─even though most students
could walk or ride a
bike, they are driven, and sometimes it's only one block.


I'm not really talking about "kids" riding bikes during
elementary, middle, or high school.* I mean young adults.
Or "kids" as I think of them, unfortunately.* Younger
people.* Is bicycling, recreational, fun bicycling,
becoming an older and older person activity?* Are fewer
and fewer young people doing the activity?* Thus making
the average age of the cyclist older and older.

I think that's the case, sadly. I think a huge chunk of
American's dedicated cyclists are still the ones that took
it up during the early 1970s "bike boom" when it was trendy.
(Fashion is powerful.) Those people are now in their 60s,
perhaps 70s.

It's not 100%, of course. We have a new young couple living
next door and they've got some very nice road bikes. OTOH,
they have a new little kid, so they won't be doing a lot of
riding for a while.



So bicycles are basically skateboards for old people?


Maybe.

What do you see in your shop? Is business up or down, long term? What
are the customer demographics?

As I recall, when I was in my 20s and 30s and hanging around bike shops,
there were no 60+ customers buying nice bikes. In fact, when one good
friend about 40 years old (a marathoner) bought a really nice bike, we
thought he was really something.


Folks born around the turn of the century didn't view bicycling as an adult activity. In the 60s, you were more likely to see the 60+ crowd at a Moose Lodge. Success was a Coupe Deville and not a Colnago.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #23  
Old June 2nd 19, 11:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default Bicycle statistics

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 10:54:41 -0700 (PDT), Andy
wrote:

Just go on the sidewalk for a while.


But, during traffic rush hours, the periods when the autos are taking
people to work or returning home, the sidewalks are crowded with
pedestrians doing the same thing :-(.
--

Cheers,

John B.
  #24  
Old June 3rd 19, 12:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default Bicycle statistics

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:32:29 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/1/2019 10:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 8:01:10 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/1/2019 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 9:42:59 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 6/1/2019 3:02 AM,
wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 2:22:45 AM UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, May 31, 2019 at 2:48:36 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:

Average age of a bicyclist killed on US roads: 45 (36 in 2002)


Disregarding the "killed" part, this brings up a question about the demographics of bicycling today. Are all bicyclists getting older? Is bicycling becoming an older person activity? Are youngsters not taking up cycling? I have friends with children in the late teens and 20s age groups. Some of the kids do ride bikes. But others, their kids do not ride. Yet they ride lots and lots. I know on this forum some people say their children or one child does ride. But how many on this forum have children who do not ride ever? Yet they do.

All kids in the Netherlands ride a bicycle at least up to 18 years when they allowed to drive a car. Most of the times they can't affort a car at that age so the ride until they earn some money. After that they only ride recreational or when it is more practical/faster.

"Back in my day" we didn't get driven around everywhere, it was just
unthinkable that we would even ask to be driven somewhere fairly close
to our homes. We rode our bikes. Maybe if it was pouring rain our
parents would drive us. The times I was driven to elementary school,
about four blocks away were rare.

In the city I'm in now, it's extremely rare for an elementary school
student to ride a bike to school. It's still fairly common in middle
school and high school, but not at the level it should be. Traffic
around schools is insane?even though most students could walk or ride a
bike, they are driven, and sometimes it's only one block.


I'm not really talking about "kids" riding bikes during elementary, middle, or high school. I mean young adults. Or "kids" as I think of them, unfortunately. Younger people. Is bicycling, recreational, fun bicycling, becoming an older and older person activity? Are fewer and fewer young people doing the activity? Thus making the average age of the cyclist older and older.

I think that's the case, sadly. I think a huge chunk of American's
dedicated cyclists are still the ones that took it up during the early
1970s "bike boom" when it was trendy. (Fashion is powerful.) Those
people are now in their 60s, perhaps 70s.

It's not 100%, of course. We have a new young couple living next door
and they've got some very nice road bikes. OTOH, they have a new little
kid, so they won't be doing a lot of riding for a while.


--
- Frank Krygowski


I've heard it said that perception equals reality. Many people where I live think that bicycling is far too dangerous for them to try. Why that is is beyond me since those people don't read magazines or newsgroups. They perceive that bicycling is dangerous and thus do not engage in it nor do they let their children engage in it. Also, I've read that many schools do NOT allow children to bicycle to school.


As I recall, there was very, very little fear mongering about bicycling
until about 1975. Our parents told us "Watch out for cars" and "Be
careful," but that was about it. Bike magazines praised fine bikes,
country rides, sport riding, long tours and even utility riding. There
was not talk of injuries that I recall.

I still remember reading _Bicycling_ magazine's first article about
helmets. It started with an anecdote (of course!) about a guy riding
with friends falling off his bike - he may have hit a squirrel - and
described how he asked the same question repeatedly. Yes, he must have
had a concussion; but until that point, the magazine never mentioned
traumatic brain injuries as part of bicycling. Of course, at that point,
Bell Sports had just begun buying advertising for its styrofoam caps.
Pricey double page ads!

I think that was the beginning of serious fear mongering. Through many
ads, articles, and sketchy research papers, people were convinced that
this everyday activity was so dangerous that a helmet was necessary.
Then, because it was so dangerous, there began calls for bike lane
stripes for "safety." And now we're deep into "safety inflation," where
giving the advocates what they asked for last year is in no way sufficient.

And people like Scharf are happy to contribute, adding to the
implication that riding a bike is very, very dangerous! Unless, that is,
it's done in a barrier "protected" or parking "protected" lane. Oh, and
don't forget, with every intersection re-built (at maybe half a million
dollars per intersection) into a "protected" intersection.

But that's not all. The funny headgear is still absolutely necessary.
And now, a super-bright daytime headlight and taillight. And you can't
be safe if you're not wearing garish clothing.

It's easy to see why people think riding is super-risky.


Another point is that the number of deaths on bicycles has been,
generally, in the same range from 1980 until 2018. There have been
years where the numbers were lower than the average and equally years
when the numbers were higher but generally there have been *about*800
deaths annually. The highest seems to be 965 in 1980 and the lowest
was 623 in 2010.,

Given that the number of registered motor vehicles was increased by an
estimated 3.69 million each year since 1960 with the largest annual
growth between 1998 and 1999 as well as between 2000 and 2001 when the
number of motor vehicles in the United States increased by eight
million, there are obviously many more motor vehicles in the highway
in 2018 than there were in 1980.

If traffic density is a determining factor in bicycle deaths than why
didn't bicycle deaths match, even roughly, the increase in motor
vehicles?

Or, if wearing a helmet or special bicycle paths reduce bicycle deaths
then why haven't current annual deaths been reduced by the numbers
that now ride with helmets and the (limited to date) building of bike
paths?

One might even think that since traffic density has increased rather
dramatically since 1980 and the wearing of helmets have also
increased, and at least some bicycle lanes have been added, that it
might even be safer to ride a bicycle today than it was nearly 40
years ago.
--

Cheers,

John B.
  #25  
Old June 3rd 19, 01:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Bicycle statistics

On 6/2/2019 6:57 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:32:29 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/1/2019 10:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 8:01:10 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/1/2019 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 9:42:59 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 6/1/2019 3:02 AM,
wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 2:22:45 AM UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, May 31, 2019 at 2:48:36 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:

Average age of a bicyclist killed on US roads: 45 (36 in 2002)


Disregarding the "killed" part, this brings up a question about the demographics of bicycling today. Are all bicyclists getting older? Is bicycling becoming an older person activity? Are youngsters not taking up cycling? I have friends with children in the late teens and 20s age groups. Some of the kids do ride bikes. But others, their kids do not ride. Yet they ride lots and lots. I know on this forum some people say their children or one child does ride. But how many on this forum have children who do not ride ever? Yet they do.

All kids in the Netherlands ride a bicycle at least up to 18 years when they allowed to drive a car. Most of the times they can't affort a car at that age so the ride until they earn some money. After that they only ride recreational or when it is more practical/faster.

"Back in my day" we didn't get driven around everywhere, it was just
unthinkable that we would even ask to be driven somewhere fairly close
to our homes. We rode our bikes. Maybe if it was pouring rain our
parents would drive us. The times I was driven to elementary school,
about four blocks away were rare.

In the city I'm in now, it's extremely rare for an elementary school
student to ride a bike to school. It's still fairly common in middle
school and high school, but not at the level it should be. Traffic
around schools is insane?even though most students could walk or ride a
bike, they are driven, and sometimes it's only one block.


I'm not really talking about "kids" riding bikes during elementary, middle, or high school. I mean young adults. Or "kids" as I think of them, unfortunately. Younger people. Is bicycling, recreational, fun bicycling, becoming an older and older person activity? Are fewer and fewer young people doing the activity? Thus making the average age of the cyclist older and older.

I think that's the case, sadly. I think a huge chunk of American's
dedicated cyclists are still the ones that took it up during the early
1970s "bike boom" when it was trendy. (Fashion is powerful.) Those
people are now in their 60s, perhaps 70s.

It's not 100%, of course. We have a new young couple living next door
and they've got some very nice road bikes. OTOH, they have a new little
kid, so they won't be doing a lot of riding for a while.


--
- Frank Krygowski

I've heard it said that perception equals reality. Many people where I live think that bicycling is far too dangerous for them to try. Why that is is beyond me since those people don't read magazines or newsgroups. They perceive that bicycling is dangerous and thus do not engage in it nor do they let their children engage in it. Also, I've read that many schools do NOT allow children to bicycle to school.


As I recall, there was very, very little fear mongering about bicycling
until about 1975. Our parents told us "Watch out for cars" and "Be
careful," but that was about it. Bike magazines praised fine bikes,
country rides, sport riding, long tours and even utility riding. There
was not talk of injuries that I recall.

I still remember reading _Bicycling_ magazine's first article about
helmets. It started with an anecdote (of course!) about a guy riding
with friends falling off his bike - he may have hit a squirrel - and
described how he asked the same question repeatedly. Yes, he must have
had a concussion; but until that point, the magazine never mentioned
traumatic brain injuries as part of bicycling. Of course, at that point,
Bell Sports had just begun buying advertising for its styrofoam caps.
Pricey double page ads!

I think that was the beginning of serious fear mongering. Through many
ads, articles, and sketchy research papers, people were convinced that
this everyday activity was so dangerous that a helmet was necessary.
Then, because it was so dangerous, there began calls for bike lane
stripes for "safety." And now we're deep into "safety inflation," where
giving the advocates what they asked for last year is in no way sufficient.

And people like Scharf are happy to contribute, adding to the
implication that riding a bike is very, very dangerous! Unless, that is,
it's done in a barrier "protected" or parking "protected" lane. Oh, and
don't forget, with every intersection re-built (at maybe half a million
dollars per intersection) into a "protected" intersection.

But that's not all. The funny headgear is still absolutely necessary.
And now, a super-bright daytime headlight and taillight. And you can't
be safe if you're not wearing garish clothing.

It's easy to see why people think riding is super-risky.


Another point is that the number of deaths on bicycles has been,
generally, in the same range from 1980 until 2018. There have been
years where the numbers were lower than the average and equally years
when the numbers were higher but generally there have been *about*800
deaths annually. The highest seems to be 965 in 1980 and the lowest
was 623 in 2010.,

Given that the number of registered motor vehicles was increased by an
estimated 3.69 million each year since 1960 with the largest annual
growth between 1998 and 1999 as well as between 2000 and 2001 when the
number of motor vehicles in the United States increased by eight
million, there are obviously many more motor vehicles in the highway
in 2018 than there were in 1980.

If traffic density is a determining factor in bicycle deaths than why
didn't bicycle deaths match, even roughly, the increase in motor
vehicles?

Or, if wearing a helmet or special bicycle paths reduce bicycle deaths
then why haven't current annual deaths been reduced by the numbers
that now ride with helmets and the (limited to date) building of bike
paths?

One might even think that since traffic density has increased rather
dramatically since 1980 and the wearing of helmets have also
increased, and at least some bicycle lanes have been added, that it
might even be safer to ride a bicycle today than it was nearly 40
years ago.



It is, for all but about 800 of us.

Sadly, in our networked world, gruesome tragedies about
which we would once have never known are in our faces every
morning.
https://ktla.com/2019/06/01/big-rig-...boyle-heights/

Despite actual facts (which you review above) the impression
is calamitous.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #26  
Old June 3rd 19, 02:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default Bicycle statistics

On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:36:22 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/2/2019 6:57 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:32:29 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/1/2019 10:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 8:01:10 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/1/2019 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 9:42:59 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 6/1/2019 3:02 AM,
wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 2:22:45 AM UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, May 31, 2019 at 2:48:36 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:

Average age of a bicyclist killed on US roads: 45 (36 in 2002)


Disregarding the "killed" part, this brings up a question about the demographics of bicycling today. Are all bicyclists getting older? Is bicycling becoming an older person activity? Are youngsters not taking up cycling? I have friends with children in the late teens and 20s age groups. Some of the kids do ride bikes. But others, their kids do not ride. Yet they ride lots and lots. I know on this forum some people say their children or one child does ride. But how many on this forum have children who do not ride ever? Yet they do.

All kids in the Netherlands ride a bicycle at least up to 18 years when they allowed to drive a car. Most of the times they can't affort a car at that age so the ride until they earn some money. After that they only ride recreational or when it is more practical/faster.

"Back in my day" we didn't get driven around everywhere, it was just
unthinkable that we would even ask to be driven somewhere fairly close
to our homes. We rode our bikes. Maybe if it was pouring rain our
parents would drive us. The times I was driven to elementary school,
about four blocks away were rare.

In the city I'm in now, it's extremely rare for an elementary school
student to ride a bike to school. It's still fairly common in middle
school and high school, but not at the level it should be. Traffic
around schools is insane?even though most students could walk or ride a
bike, they are driven, and sometimes it's only one block.


I'm not really talking about "kids" riding bikes during elementary, middle, or high school. I mean young adults. Or "kids" as I think of them, unfortunately. Younger people. Is bicycling, recreational, fun bicycling, becoming an older and older person activity? Are fewer and fewer young people doing the activity? Thus making the average age of the cyclist older and older.

I think that's the case, sadly. I think a huge chunk of American's
dedicated cyclists are still the ones that took it up during the early
1970s "bike boom" when it was trendy. (Fashion is powerful.) Those
people are now in their 60s, perhaps 70s.

It's not 100%, of course. We have a new young couple living next door
and they've got some very nice road bikes. OTOH, they have a new little
kid, so they won't be doing a lot of riding for a while.


--
- Frank Krygowski

I've heard it said that perception equals reality. Many people where I live think that bicycling is far too dangerous for them to try. Why that is is beyond me since those people don't read magazines or newsgroups. They perceive that bicycling is dangerous and thus do not engage in it nor do they let their children engage in it. Also, I've read that many schools do NOT allow children to bicycle to school.

As I recall, there was very, very little fear mongering about bicycling
until about 1975. Our parents told us "Watch out for cars" and "Be
careful," but that was about it. Bike magazines praised fine bikes,
country rides, sport riding, long tours and even utility riding. There
was not talk of injuries that I recall.

I still remember reading _Bicycling_ magazine's first article about
helmets. It started with an anecdote (of course!) about a guy riding
with friends falling off his bike - he may have hit a squirrel - and
described how he asked the same question repeatedly. Yes, he must have
had a concussion; but until that point, the magazine never mentioned
traumatic brain injuries as part of bicycling. Of course, at that point,
Bell Sports had just begun buying advertising for its styrofoam caps.
Pricey double page ads!

I think that was the beginning of serious fear mongering. Through many
ads, articles, and sketchy research papers, people were convinced that
this everyday activity was so dangerous that a helmet was necessary.
Then, because it was so dangerous, there began calls for bike lane
stripes for "safety." And now we're deep into "safety inflation," where
giving the advocates what they asked for last year is in no way sufficient.

And people like Scharf are happy to contribute, adding to the
implication that riding a bike is very, very dangerous! Unless, that is,
it's done in a barrier "protected" or parking "protected" lane. Oh, and
don't forget, with every intersection re-built (at maybe half a million
dollars per intersection) into a "protected" intersection.

But that's not all. The funny headgear is still absolutely necessary.
And now, a super-bright daytime headlight and taillight. And you can't
be safe if you're not wearing garish clothing.

It's easy to see why people think riding is super-risky.


Another point is that the number of deaths on bicycles has been,
generally, in the same range from 1980 until 2018. There have been
years where the numbers were lower than the average and equally years
when the numbers were higher but generally there have been *about*800
deaths annually. The highest seems to be 965 in 1980 and the lowest
was 623 in 2010.,

Given that the number of registered motor vehicles was increased by an
estimated 3.69 million each year since 1960 with the largest annual
growth between 1998 and 1999 as well as between 2000 and 2001 when the
number of motor vehicles in the United States increased by eight
million, there are obviously many more motor vehicles in the highway
in 2018 than there were in 1980.

If traffic density is a determining factor in bicycle deaths than why
didn't bicycle deaths match, even roughly, the increase in motor
vehicles?

Or, if wearing a helmet or special bicycle paths reduce bicycle deaths
then why haven't current annual deaths been reduced by the numbers
that now ride with helmets and the (limited to date) building of bike
paths?

One might even think that since traffic density has increased rather
dramatically since 1980 and the wearing of helmets have also
increased, and at least some bicycle lanes have been added, that it
might even be safer to ride a bicycle today than it was nearly 40
years ago.



It is, for all but about 800 of us.

Sadly, in our networked world, gruesome tragedies about
which we would once have never known are in our faces every
morning.
https://ktla.com/2019/06/01/big-rig-...boyle-heights/

Despite actual facts (which you review above) the impression
is calamitous.


Since the police have the license plate one would assume that an
arrest is eminent :-)

As an aside, the mention of "nearby surveillance camera" brings to
mind that in Bangkok, and increasingly in the provinces, "surveillance
cameras" are everywhere. All of the more recent arrests for theft at
the airport were due to the cameras as well as the bulk of violent
crime arrests in the city.

Perhaps the solution to bike collisions is more surveillance cameras.
Far cheaper and quicker to install than segregated bicycle lanes they
might prove to be even more effective in protecting the endangered
cyclist.
--

Cheers,

John B.
  #27  
Old June 3rd 19, 02:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 853
Default Bicycle statistics

AMuzi wrote:
On 6/2/2019 6:57 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:32:29 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/1/2019 10:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 8:01:10 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/1/2019 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 9:42:59 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 6/1/2019 3:02 AM,
wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 2:22:45 AM UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, May 31, 2019 at 2:48:36 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:

Average age of a bicyclist killed on US roads: 45 (36 in 2002)


Disregarding the "killed" part, this brings up a question about
the demographics of bicycling today. Are all bicyclists getting older? Is
bicycling becoming an older person activity? Are youngsters not
taking up cycling? I have friends with children in the late
teens and 20s age groups. Some of the kids do ride bikes. But
others, their kids do not ride. Yet they ride lots and lots. I
know on this forum some people say their children or one child
does ride. But how many on this forum have children who do not
ride ever? Yet they do.

All kids in the Netherlands ride a bicycle at least up to 18 years
when they allowed to drive a car. Most of the times they can't
affort a car at that age so the ride until they earn some money.
After that they only ride recreational or when it is more practical/faster.

"Back in my day" we didn't get driven around everywhere, it was just
unthinkable that we would even ask to be driven somewhere fairly close
to our homes. We rode our bikes. Maybe if it was pouring rain our
parents would drive us. The times I was driven to elementary school,
about four blocks away were rare.

In the city I'm in now, it's extremely rare for an elementary school
student to ride a bike to school. It's still fairly common in middle
school and high school, but not at the level it should be. Traffic
around schools is insane?even though most students could walk or ride a
bike, they are driven, and sometimes it's only one block.


I'm not really talking about "kids" riding bikes during elementary,
middle, or high school. I mean young adults. Or "kids" as I think
of them, unfortunately. Younger people. Is bicycling,
recreational, fun bicycling, becoming an older and older person
activity? Are fewer and fewer young people doing the activity?
Thus making the average age of the cyclist older and older.

I think that's the case, sadly. I think a huge chunk of American's
dedicated cyclists are still the ones that took it up during the early
1970s "bike boom" when it was trendy. (Fashion is powerful.) Those
people are now in their 60s, perhaps 70s.

It's not 100%, of course. We have a new young couple living next door
and they've got some very nice road bikes. OTOH, they have a new little
kid, so they won't be doing a lot of riding for a while.


--
- Frank Krygowski

I've heard it said that perception equals reality. Many people where I
live think that bicycling is far too dangerous for them to try. Why
that is is beyond me since those people don't read magazines or
newsgroups. They perceive that bicycling is dangerous and thus do not
engage in it nor do they let their children engage in it. Also, I've
read that many schools do NOT allow children to bicycle to school.

As I recall, there was very, very little fear mongering about bicycling
until about 1975. Our parents told us "Watch out for cars" and "Be
careful," but that was about it. Bike magazines praised fine bikes,
country rides, sport riding, long tours and even utility riding. There
was not talk of injuries that I recall.

I still remember reading _Bicycling_ magazine's first article about
helmets. It started with an anecdote (of course!) about a guy riding
with friends falling off his bike - he may have hit a squirrel - and
described how he asked the same question repeatedly. Yes, he must have
had a concussion; but until that point, the magazine never mentioned
traumatic brain injuries as part of bicycling. Of course, at that point,
Bell Sports had just begun buying advertising for its styrofoam caps.
Pricey double page ads!

I think that was the beginning of serious fear mongering. Through many
ads, articles, and sketchy research papers, people were convinced that
this everyday activity was so dangerous that a helmet was necessary.
Then, because it was so dangerous, there began calls for bike lane
stripes for "safety." And now we're deep into "safety inflation," where
giving the advocates what they asked for last year is in no way sufficient.

And people like Scharf are happy to contribute, adding to the
implication that riding a bike is very, very dangerous! Unless, that is,
it's done in a barrier "protected" or parking "protected" lane. Oh, and
don't forget, with every intersection re-built (at maybe half a million
dollars per intersection) into a "protected" intersection.

But that's not all. The funny headgear is still absolutely necessary.
And now, a super-bright daytime headlight and taillight. And you can't
be safe if you're not wearing garish clothing.

It's easy to see why people think riding is super-risky.


Another point is that the number of deaths on bicycles has been,
generally, in the same range from 1980 until 2018. There have been
years where the numbers were lower than the average and equally years
when the numbers were higher but generally there have been *about*800
deaths annually. The highest seems to be 965 in 1980 and the lowest
was 623 in 2010.,

Given that the number of registered motor vehicles was increased by an
estimated 3.69 million each year since 1960 with the largest annual
growth between 1998 and 1999 as well as between 2000 and 2001 when the
number of motor vehicles in the United States increased by eight
million, there are obviously many more motor vehicles in the highway
in 2018 than there were in 1980.

If traffic density is a determining factor in bicycle deaths than why
didn't bicycle deaths match, even roughly, the increase in motor
vehicles?

Or, if wearing a helmet or special bicycle paths reduce bicycle deaths
then why haven't current annual deaths been reduced by the numbers
that now ride with helmets and the (limited to date) building of bike
paths?

One might even think that since traffic density has increased rather
dramatically since 1980 and the wearing of helmets have also
increased, and at least some bicycle lanes have been added, that it
might even be safer to ride a bicycle today than it was nearly 40
years ago.



It is, for all but about 800 of us.

Sadly, in our networked world, gruesome tragedies about
which we would once have never known are in our faces every
morning.
https://ktla.com/2019/06/01/big-rig-...boyle-heights/

Despite actual facts (which you review above) the impression
is calamitous.


The impression is always calamitous. “Man goes for bike ride - nothing bad
happens. Film at 11.” makes for a horrible headline.

  #28  
Old June 3rd 19, 03:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Bicycle statistics

On 6/2/2019 5:18 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 9:59:43 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/2/2019 10:30 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/1/2019 7:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/1/2019 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 9:42:59 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 6/1/2019 3:02 AM,
wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 2:22:45 AM UTC+2,
wrote:
On Friday, May 31, 2019 at 2:48:36 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:

***** Average age of a bicyclist killed on US roads:
45 (36 in 2002)


Disregarding the "killed" part, this brings up a
question about the demographics of bicycling today.
Are all bicyclists getting older?* Is bicycling
becoming an older person activity?* Are youngsters not
taking up cycling?* I have friends with children in the
late teens and 20s age groups.* Some of the kids do
ride bikes.* But others, their kids do not ride.* Yet
they ride lots and lots.* I know on this forum some
people say their children or one child does ride.* But
how many on this forum have children who do not ride
ever?* Yet they do.

All kids in the Netherlands ride a bicycle at least up
to 18 years when they allowed to drive a car. Most of
the times they can't affort a car at that age so the
ride until they earn some money. After that they only
ride recreational or when it is more practical/faster.

"Back in my day" we didn't get driven around everywhere,
it was just
unthinkable that we would even ask to be driven somewhere
fairly close
to our homes. We rode our bikes. Maybe if it was pouring
rain our
parents would drive us. The times I was driven to
elementary school,
about four blocks away were rare.

In the city I'm in now, it's extremely rare for an
elementary school
student to ride a bike to school. It's still fairly
common in middle
school and high school, but not at the level it should
be. Traffic
around schools is insane─even though most students
could walk or ride a
bike, they are driven, and sometimes it's only one block.


I'm not really talking about "kids" riding bikes during
elementary, middle, or high school.* I mean young adults.
Or "kids" as I think of them, unfortunately.* Younger
people.* Is bicycling, recreational, fun bicycling,
becoming an older and older person activity?* Are fewer
and fewer young people doing the activity?* Thus making
the average age of the cyclist older and older.

I think that's the case, sadly. I think a huge chunk of
American's dedicated cyclists are still the ones that took
it up during the early 1970s "bike boom" when it was trendy.
(Fashion is powerful.) Those people are now in their 60s,
perhaps 70s.

It's not 100%, of course. We have a new young couple living
next door and they've got some very nice road bikes. OTOH,
they have a new little kid, so they won't be doing a lot of
riding for a while.



So bicycles are basically skateboards for old people?


Maybe.

What do you see in your shop? Is business up or down, long term? What
are the customer demographics?

As I recall, when I was in my 20s and 30s and hanging around bike shops,
there were no 60+ customers buying nice bikes. In fact, when one good
friend about 40 years old (a marathoner) bought a really nice bike, we
thought he was really something.


Folks born around the turn of the century didn't view bicycling as an adult activity. In the 60s, you were more likely to see the 60+ crowd at a Moose Lodge. Success was a Coupe Deville and not a Colnago.


True. But I think now, success is a really great phone and lots of skin ink.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #29  
Old June 3rd 19, 03:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Bicycle statistics

On 6/2/2019 9:53 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 6/2/2019 6:57 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:32:29 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/1/2019 10:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 8:01:10 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/1/2019 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 9:42:59 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 6/1/2019 3:02 AM,
wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 2:22:45 AM UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, May 31, 2019 at 2:48:36 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:

Average age of a bicyclist killed on US roads: 45 (36 in 2002)


Disregarding the "killed" part, this brings up a question about
the demographics of bicycling today. Are all bicyclists getting older? Is
bicycling becoming an older person activity? Are youngsters not
taking up cycling? I have friends with children in the late
teens and 20s age groups. Some of the kids do ride bikes. But
others, their kids do not ride. Yet they ride lots and lots. I
know on this forum some people say their children or one child
does ride. But how many on this forum have children who do not
ride ever? Yet they do.

All kids in the Netherlands ride a bicycle at least up to 18 years
when they allowed to drive a car. Most of the times they can't
affort a car at that age so the ride until they earn some money.
After that they only ride recreational or when it is more practical/faster.

"Back in my day" we didn't get driven around everywhere, it was just
unthinkable that we would even ask to be driven somewhere fairly close
to our homes. We rode our bikes. Maybe if it was pouring rain our
parents would drive us. The times I was driven to elementary school,
about four blocks away were rare.

In the city I'm in now, it's extremely rare for an elementary school
student to ride a bike to school. It's still fairly common in middle
school and high school, but not at the level it should be. Traffic
around schools is insane?even though most students could walk or ride a
bike, they are driven, and sometimes it's only one block.


I'm not really talking about "kids" riding bikes during elementary,
middle, or high school. I mean young adults. Or "kids" as I think
of them, unfortunately. Younger people. Is bicycling,
recreational, fun bicycling, becoming an older and older person
activity? Are fewer and fewer young people doing the activity?
Thus making the average age of the cyclist older and older.

I think that's the case, sadly. I think a huge chunk of American's
dedicated cyclists are still the ones that took it up during the early
1970s "bike boom" when it was trendy. (Fashion is powerful.) Those
people are now in their 60s, perhaps 70s.

It's not 100%, of course. We have a new young couple living next door
and they've got some very nice road bikes. OTOH, they have a new little
kid, so they won't be doing a lot of riding for a while.


--
- Frank Krygowski

I've heard it said that perception equals reality. Many people where I
live think that bicycling is far too dangerous for them to try. Why
that is is beyond me since those people don't read magazines or
newsgroups. They perceive that bicycling is dangerous and thus do not
engage in it nor do they let their children engage in it. Also, I've
read that many schools do NOT allow children to bicycle to school.

As I recall, there was very, very little fear mongering about bicycling
until about 1975. Our parents told us "Watch out for cars" and "Be
careful," but that was about it. Bike magazines praised fine bikes,
country rides, sport riding, long tours and even utility riding. There
was not talk of injuries that I recall.

I still remember reading _Bicycling_ magazine's first article about
helmets. It started with an anecdote (of course!) about a guy riding
with friends falling off his bike - he may have hit a squirrel - and
described how he asked the same question repeatedly. Yes, he must have
had a concussion; but until that point, the magazine never mentioned
traumatic brain injuries as part of bicycling. Of course, at that point,
Bell Sports had just begun buying advertising for its styrofoam caps.
Pricey double page ads!

I think that was the beginning of serious fear mongering. Through many
ads, articles, and sketchy research papers, people were convinced that
this everyday activity was so dangerous that a helmet was necessary.
Then, because it was so dangerous, there began calls for bike lane
stripes for "safety." And now we're deep into "safety inflation," where
giving the advocates what they asked for last year is in no way sufficient.

And people like Scharf are happy to contribute, adding to the
implication that riding a bike is very, very dangerous! Unless, that is,
it's done in a barrier "protected" or parking "protected" lane. Oh, and
don't forget, with every intersection re-built (at maybe half a million
dollars per intersection) into a "protected" intersection.

But that's not all. The funny headgear is still absolutely necessary.
And now, a super-bright daytime headlight and taillight. And you can't
be safe if you're not wearing garish clothing.

It's easy to see why people think riding is super-risky.

Another point is that the number of deaths on bicycles has been,
generally, in the same range from 1980 until 2018. There have been
years where the numbers were lower than the average and equally years
when the numbers were higher but generally there have been *about*800
deaths annually. The highest seems to be 965 in 1980 and the lowest
was 623 in 2010.,

Given that the number of registered motor vehicles was increased by an
estimated 3.69 million each year since 1960 with the largest annual
growth between 1998 and 1999 as well as between 2000 and 2001 when the
number of motor vehicles in the United States increased by eight
million, there are obviously many more motor vehicles in the highway
in 2018 than there were in 1980.

If traffic density is a determining factor in bicycle deaths than why
didn't bicycle deaths match, even roughly, the increase in motor
vehicles?

Or, if wearing a helmet or special bicycle paths reduce bicycle deaths
then why haven't current annual deaths been reduced by the numbers
that now ride with helmets and the (limited to date) building of bike
paths?

One might even think that since traffic density has increased rather
dramatically since 1980 and the wearing of helmets have also
increased, and at least some bicycle lanes have been added, that it
might even be safer to ride a bicycle today than it was nearly 40
years ago.



It is, for all but about 800 of us.

Sadly, in our networked world, gruesome tragedies about
which we would once have never known are in our faces every
morning.
https://ktla.com/2019/06/01/big-rig-...boyle-heights/

Despite actual facts (which you review above) the impression
is calamitous.


The impression is always calamitous. “Man goes for bike ride - nothing bad
happens. Film at 11.” makes for a horrible headline.


Exactly. The book _Risk_ by Dan Gardner goes into great detail about the
psychology of hearing bad news, and how the media play that psychology
to drive up ratings.

As he and other authors have said: For almost all of human history, if
you heard about a tragedy (Leopard kills baby) it had to mean it
happened near you, because you could hear it only by word of mouth.

Now it's "Leopard kills baby, details at 11!" and when you tune in, you
learned it happened thousands of miles away. But you're still hard wired
to tune in.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #30  
Old June 3rd 19, 04:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Bicycle statistics

On 6/2/2019 7:57 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:32:29 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/1/2019 10:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 8:01:10 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/1/2019 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 9:42:59 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 6/1/2019 3:02 AM,
wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 2:22:45 AM UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, May 31, 2019 at 2:48:36 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:

Average age of a bicyclist killed on US roads: 45 (36 in 2002)


Disregarding the "killed" part, this brings up a question about the demographics of bicycling today. Are all bicyclists getting older? Is bicycling becoming an older person activity? Are youngsters not taking up cycling? I have friends with children in the late teens and 20s age groups. Some of the kids do ride bikes. But others, their kids do not ride. Yet they ride lots and lots. I know on this forum some people say their children or one child does ride. But how many on this forum have children who do not ride ever? Yet they do.

All kids in the Netherlands ride a bicycle at least up to 18 years when they allowed to drive a car. Most of the times they can't affort a car at that age so the ride until they earn some money. After that they only ride recreational or when it is more practical/faster.

"Back in my day" we didn't get driven around everywhere, it was just
unthinkable that we would even ask to be driven somewhere fairly close
to our homes. We rode our bikes. Maybe if it was pouring rain our
parents would drive us. The times I was driven to elementary school,
about four blocks away were rare.

In the city I'm in now, it's extremely rare for an elementary school
student to ride a bike to school. It's still fairly common in middle
school and high school, but not at the level it should be. Traffic
around schools is insane?even though most students could walk or ride a
bike, they are driven, and sometimes it's only one block.


I'm not really talking about "kids" riding bikes during elementary, middle, or high school. I mean young adults. Or "kids" as I think of them, unfortunately. Younger people. Is bicycling, recreational, fun bicycling, becoming an older and older person activity? Are fewer and fewer young people doing the activity? Thus making the average age of the cyclist older and older.

I think that's the case, sadly. I think a huge chunk of American's
dedicated cyclists are still the ones that took it up during the early
1970s "bike boom" when it was trendy. (Fashion is powerful.) Those
people are now in their 60s, perhaps 70s.

It's not 100%, of course. We have a new young couple living next door
and they've got some very nice road bikes. OTOH, they have a new little
kid, so they won't be doing a lot of riding for a while.


--
- Frank Krygowski

I've heard it said that perception equals reality. Many people where I live think that bicycling is far too dangerous for them to try. Why that is is beyond me since those people don't read magazines or newsgroups. They perceive that bicycling is dangerous and thus do not engage in it nor do they let their children engage in it. Also, I've read that many schools do NOT allow children to bicycle to school.


As I recall, there was very, very little fear mongering about bicycling
until about 1975. Our parents told us "Watch out for cars" and "Be
careful," but that was about it. Bike magazines praised fine bikes,
country rides, sport riding, long tours and even utility riding. There
was not talk of injuries that I recall.

I still remember reading _Bicycling_ magazine's first article about
helmets. It started with an anecdote (of course!) about a guy riding
with friends falling off his bike - he may have hit a squirrel - and
described how he asked the same question repeatedly. Yes, he must have
had a concussion; but until that point, the magazine never mentioned
traumatic brain injuries as part of bicycling. Of course, at that point,
Bell Sports had just begun buying advertising for its styrofoam caps.
Pricey double page ads!

I think that was the beginning of serious fear mongering. Through many
ads, articles, and sketchy research papers, people were convinced that
this everyday activity was so dangerous that a helmet was necessary.
Then, because it was so dangerous, there began calls for bike lane
stripes for "safety." And now we're deep into "safety inflation," where
giving the advocates what they asked for last year is in no way sufficient.

And people like Scharf are happy to contribute, adding to the
implication that riding a bike is very, very dangerous! Unless, that is,
it's done in a barrier "protected" or parking "protected" lane. Oh, and
don't forget, with every intersection re-built (at maybe half a million
dollars per intersection) into a "protected" intersection.

But that's not all. The funny headgear is still absolutely necessary.
And now, a super-bright daytime headlight and taillight. And you can't
be safe if you're not wearing garish clothing.

It's easy to see why people think riding is super-risky.


Another point is that the number of deaths on bicycles has been,
generally, in the same range from 1980 until 2018. There have been
years where the numbers were lower than the average and equally years
when the numbers were higher but generally there have been *about*800
deaths annually. The highest seems to be 965 in 1980 and the lowest
was 623 in 2010.,

Given that the number of registered motor vehicles was increased by an
estimated 3.69 million each year since 1960 with the largest annual
growth between 1998 and 1999 as well as between 2000 and 2001 when the
number of motor vehicles in the United States increased by eight
million, there are obviously many more motor vehicles in the highway
in 2018 than there were in 1980.

If traffic density is a determining factor in bicycle deaths than why
didn't bicycle deaths match, even roughly, the increase in motor
vehicles?

Or, if wearing a helmet or special bicycle paths reduce bicycle deaths
then why haven't current annual deaths been reduced by the numbers
that now ride with helmets and the (limited to date) building of bike
paths?

One might even think that since traffic density has increased rather
dramatically since 1980 and the wearing of helmets have also
increased, and at least some bicycle lanes have been added, that it
might even be safer to ride a bicycle today than it was nearly 40
years ago.


As I've said before, I think it's often forgotten that medical
treatments have gotten much more effective. I suspect the drop in bike
fatalities - and the _greater_ drop in pedestrian fatalities - is due
in large part to better medical care.


--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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