Taya Chain

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 13:19:39 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
wrote:

On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 12:46:23 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-08 09:20, sms wrote:
On 9/7/2017 7:59 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-06 17:25, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 1:29:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-28 15:59, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/28/2017 4:28 PM, wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 1:59:20 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-28 13:43, sms wrote:
I replaced the chain that I broke on Saturday with one I
had in my garage that I must have purchased five to ten
years ago.

It has a connecting link and it says "Taya" on it. It's for
6,7,8 gearing. It seems okay, but I think that this is the
first time I've used a chain with a connecting link since
childhood. I looked up Taya and it's a big Taiwanese chain
manufacturer.


I still have a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on my road bike
which I bought from a friend as NOS, for $6 which was the old
sticker price (the sticker had already turned brownish). No
link, mounted with hammer and anvil as usual. To my utter
amazement it doesn't show any measurable stretch after over
2000mi and sometimes I really put the coals on because of our
hills. Even the old Wippermann chains could not rival that. I
am very religious about chain cleaning and lube though.

The old 5-6-7 speed Sachs chains wore out three days after the
bike was junked.


The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta hardening
process was not only exceptional but unsurpassed down to today
except for possibly Record chains. That ended with SRAM.


Why is that? In the automotive world such an advance in technology
is kept and further developed, not rescinded and chucked back into
the dust bin. Well, usually.

Simple - the motor runs quieter, and consumers buy it more readily.
Hence we saw plastic teeth on timing gears.


And they make that last 100,000mi before a PM swap. That's what it
says in my SUV's manual and when the old belts came out they still
looked like new.

The recommended timing belt change interval is very conservative. I've
had it done on my SUV at 100K and while the belt did not look new when
it came out, it was clear that it would have gone far longer without
breaking. There are several advantages to timing belts versus timing
chains, especially on engines where a long chain or belt is needed. A
timing chain needs to have a system to keep it oiled. Chains stretch
more than a kevlar reinforced neoprene belt. Chains are noisier. Chains
are expensive to replace and contrary to what some people believe, they
do NOT last "forever" just because there is no scheduled replacement
interval.


The best was my Citroen 2CV, the 16-horse version. Two meshed metal
gears (no belt, no chain). It also had no distributor and no external
belts to drive anything. The generator sat directly on the shaft and the
propeller to cool the air-cooled engine sat in front of that on the same
shaft.

Gear drive is noisy. It whines.

I seem to recollect that "way back when" some gear driven camshafts
had a plastic or fiber gear to decrease noise.
https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...make/chevrolet
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 09:31:15 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 9/7/2017 8:09 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 5:11:09 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

I think that you are confusing reality with your own fantasies. In
years past I have worked with two engineers who had worked in the
automobile industry. They both said the same thing, that the major
effort in the motor industry was to "make it cheaper".

Gee then it must be the government forcing manufacturers to make cars safer since the fatalities per passenger mile have dropped so precipitously.

You assume that the fall in fatalities per passenger mile are due solely
to the addition of various safety equipment. While it is a contributing
factor, there are other major factors. First, more passenger miles are
being driven on limited access freeways where fatality rates per mile
are far lower. Second, increased traffic congestion has reduced average
speeds.

But John's statement is also not quite accurate. While it's true that
the industry has worked to decontent vehicles to save money, at the same
time they've added various safety feature which don't cost much to add
since it's just some inexpensive sensors and software. Traction control
basically costs nothing once a vehicle has wheel speed sensor for ABS.

Ah but when traction control was first marketed for vehicles it came
with a hefty increase in price.

ABS also cost a bomb when it was first available.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 9/8/2017 6:04 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 1:53:30 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-08 13:19, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 12:46:23 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-08 09:20, sms wrote:
On 9/7/2017 7:59 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-06 17:25, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 1:29:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-28 15:59, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/28/2017 4:28 PM, wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 1:59:20 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-28 13:43, sms wrote:
I replaced the chain that I broke on Saturday with one I
had in my garage that I must have purchased five to ten
years ago.

It has a connecting link and it says "Taya" on it. It's for
6,7,8 gearing. It seems okay, but I think that this is the
first time I've used a chain with a connecting link since
childhood. I looked up Taya and it's a big Taiwanese chain
manufacturer.


I still have a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on my road bike
which I bought from a friend as NOS, for $6 which was the old
sticker price (the sticker had already turned brownish). No
link, mounted with hammer and anvil as usual. To my utter
amazement it doesn't show any measurable stretch after over
2000mi and sometimes I really put the coals on because of our
hills. Even the old Wippermann chains could not rival that. I
am very religious about chain cleaning and lube though.

The old 5-6-7 speed Sachs chains wore out three days after the
bike was junked.


The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta hardening
process was not only exceptional but unsurpassed down to today
except for possibly Record chains. That ended with SRAM.


Why is that? In the automotive world such an advance in technology
is kept and further developed, not rescinded and chucked back into
the dust bin. Well, usually.

Simple - the motor runs quieter, and consumers buy it more readily.
Hence we saw plastic teeth on timing gears.


And they make that last 100,000mi before a PM swap. That's what it
says in my SUV's manual and when the old belts came out they still
looked like new.

The recommended timing belt change interval is very conservative. I've
had it done on my SUV at 100K and while the belt did not look new when
it came out, it was clear that it would have gone far longer without
breaking. There are several advantages to timing belts versus timing
chains, especially on engines where a long chain or belt is needed. A
timing chain needs to have a system to keep it oiled. Chains stretch
more than a kevlar reinforced neoprene belt. Chains are noisier. Chains
are expensive to replace and contrary to what some people believe, they
do NOT last "forever" just because there is no scheduled replacement
interval.


The best was my Citroen 2CV, the 16-horse version. Two meshed metal
gears (no belt, no chain). It also had no distributor and no external
belts to drive anything. The generator sat directly on the shaft and the
propeller to cool the air-cooled engine sat in front of that on the same
shaft.

Gear drive is noisy. It whines.


Nope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRCLxG2vQ88
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RFs5DIT27U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfhY0JZqbQU

This is the kind I had:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LNmnlDeKh0

What sounds like a whine is from the tips of the metal propeller for air
cooling which runs at the full crankshaft speed because it is mounted on
it sans clutch. They didn't shape them in any way because these were
very low-cost cars, it was just the raw stamped-out metal. It could only
be heard with the hood open and not inside the car. Later when the upped
it to 23hp there was a better shaped plastic propeller and that didn't
have a whine. However, that more "powerful" engine broke with one of the
traditions in that it had an alternator that was belt-driven instead of
the DC-generator on the shaft.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

If the noise was acceptable then we wouldn't have timing chains and belts in the 1st place, and passenger-car motors would have used gear drive all along.

I think there are other advantages to belts (vs. gears) in addition to
noise. Gears are probably quite a bit more expensive in themselves, plus
they require much more accurate alignment. They also need accurate
center-to-center distance, which is probably an issue with the camshaft
and crankshaft separated by a compressible head gasket.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 11:48:38 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-07 18:10, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 07:19:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-06 16:50, John B. wrote:

[...]

... Given Vietnam's history
since, say the 1850's, the average Vietnamese is probably as happy
under the present government as they were under previous regimes.


Having met a lot of Vietnamese people, including people where not all
relatives made it out, I do not think this is true. I also had relatives
who had to live in a former communist country. They would have been shot
if they had tried to leave. Nobody will ever tell me there is nothing
wrong with communism.

As a general statement, those who escaped from Vietnam were people
with a certain amount of money. Call them the middle class.


Not the ones I met. They didn't have much more than the shirt on their
backs and most didn't own real estate over there or had much in terms of
other wealth. A simple bicycle was already considered a luxury.


And tell us, how did these penniless people buy the boat, provision
the boat, acquire sufficient fuel, pay the bribes to the coast guard
and navy necessary to start the voyage?


... Certainly
Thai pirates were active in robbing them and in cases where the
Vietnamese were subsequently rescued they all complained of being
robbed of money, and from personal knowledge an escape boat that
approached a drilling platform in Malaysian waters offered to pay for
food and water and a later boat that landed on Karimun Island in the
Java Sea offered to pay for food and water using gold.

But the so called middle class is a minority in Vietnam, The Boston
Consulting Group estimates that the "middle class" may include as much
as 1/3rd of the Vietnamese people by 2020.

It was the remainder, the "peasants" that I was referring to when I
said "the average". Perhaps I should change that to "the majority".


I was referring to the same group. Simple workers. They fled because of
brutal oppression. Here in the US they realized how much of a
perspective they can have, learning new stuff such as electronics that
would have remained a complete illusion in Vietnam.

Again, how did they do it" A "simple worker" in much of Asia in the
1950's and 60's made sufficient money to eat... most of the time. How
did they escape? And how did these fictional "simple workers" know
about the electronics in far off America?


As for the blissful life under the U.S. supported "democratically
elected government, well religious freedom didn't really exist, to the
extent that Buddhist monks burned themselves in protest. Of course
that was right and proper for the Christians (some 6 million
Catholics) to persecute the heathen Buddhists ( some 12 million).


A lot of bad things happened half a century or more ago, sometimes in
the name of "Western values" or 100+ years ago even Christian missionary
"work" (and I am saying that as a practicing Lutheran). However, things
got better, much better. In communism they didn't.


Try talking to a "Mainland" Chinese, or a Vietnamese. Things certainly
are better then they were in 1975. Good Lord! The Chinese peasants,
today, have so much money that they are taking vacations in Thailand.
Swarms of them.

In fact Chinese now make up 27% of all tourists to Thailand and also
spend more per day when they visit Thailand than either U.S. or
Europeans do.


By the way, the number of "boat people" who escaped Vietnam and
arrived in a foreign country amounted to about 800,000, call it a
million and an additional 1,000,000 escaped by other means for a total
of 2,000,000 during the 20 year period from 1975 - 95. Or roughly
100,000 annually.

From a nation with an average population of about 61.5 million during
the same period.


That qualifies as mass exodus, especially considering the untold
millions who did not succeed or didn't dare. Plus those snatched and
sent to "re-eduction camps" a.k.a gulag.

Mass Exodus? 100,000 a year versus an average population of 61.5
million? That is 0.1%.

5% to 20% of the U.S. population that will get the flu, on average,
each year. But do you refer to this as an epidemic? If not then why do
you consider a paltry 0.1% a Mass Exodus?

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 9/8/2017 5:04 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 1:53:30 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-08 13:19, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 12:46:23 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-08 09:20, sms wrote:
On 9/7/2017 7:59 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-06 17:25, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 1:29:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-28 15:59, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/28/2017 4:28 PM, wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 1:59:20 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-28 13:43, sms wrote:
I replaced the chain that I broke on Saturday with one I
had in my garage that I must have purchased five to ten
years ago.

It has a connecting link and it says "Taya" on it. It's for
6,7,8 gearing. It seems okay, but I think that this is the
first time I've used a chain with a connecting link since
childhood. I looked up Taya and it's a big Taiwanese chain
manufacturer.


I still have a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on my road bike
which I bought from a friend as NOS, for $6 which was the old
sticker price (the sticker had already turned brownish). No
link, mounted with hammer and anvil as usual. To my utter
amazement it doesn't show any measurable stretch after over
2000mi and sometimes I really put the coals on because of our
hills. Even the old Wippermann chains could not rival that. I
am very religious about chain cleaning and lube though.

The old 5-6-7 speed Sachs chains wore out three days after the
bike was junked.


The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta hardening
process was not only exceptional but unsurpassed down to today
except for possibly Record chains. That ended with SRAM.


Why is that? In the automotive world such an advance in technology
is kept and further developed, not rescinded and chucked back into
the dust bin. Well, usually.

Simple - the motor runs quieter, and consumers buy it more readily.
Hence we saw plastic teeth on timing gears.


And they make that last 100,000mi before a PM swap. That's what it
says in my SUV's manual and when the old belts came out they still
looked like new.

The recommended timing belt change interval is very conservative. I've
had it done on my SUV at 100K and while the belt did not look new when
it came out, it was clear that it would have gone far longer without
breaking. There are several advantages to timing belts versus timing
chains, especially on engines where a long chain or belt is needed. A
timing chain needs to have a system to keep it oiled. Chains stretch
more than a kevlar reinforced neoprene belt. Chains are noisier. Chains
are expensive to replace and contrary to what some people believe, they
do NOT last "forever" just because there is no scheduled replacement
interval.


The best was my Citroen 2CV, the 16-horse version. Two meshed metal
gears (no belt, no chain). It also had no distributor and no external
belts to drive anything. The generator sat directly on the shaft and the
propeller to cool the air-cooled engine sat in front of that on the same
shaft.

Gear drive is noisy. It whines.


Nope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRCLxG2vQ88
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RFs5DIT27U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfhY0JZqbQU

This is the kind I had:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LNmnlDeKh0

What sounds like a whine is from the tips of the metal propeller for air
cooling which runs at the full crankshaft speed because it is mounted on
it sans clutch. They didn't shape them in any way because these were
very low-cost cars, it was just the raw stamped-out metal. It could only
be heard with the hood open and not inside the car. Later when the upped
it to 23hp there was a better shaped plastic propeller and that didn't
have a whine. However, that more "powerful" engine broke with one of the
traditions in that it had an alternator that was belt-driven instead of
the DC-generator on the shaft.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

If the noise was acceptable then we wouldn't have timing chains and belts in the 1st place, and passenger-car motors would have used gear drive all along.


Mine does. No pesky chain:
http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/file...e=P7290021.jpg


Instead of chain or belt failure, most currently available
gears fall apart from casting flaws, even the supposed
'billet' models.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2017-09-08 14:56, wrote:
On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 11:48:34 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-07 18:10, John B. wrote:

[...]


By the way, the number of "boat people" who escaped Vietnam and
arrived in a foreign country amounted to about 800,000, call it
a million and an additional 1,000,000 escaped by other means for
a total of 2,000,000 during the 20 year period from 1975 - 95. Or
roughly 100,000 annually.

From a nation with an average population of about 61.5 million
during the same period.


That qualifies as mass exodus, especially considering the untold
millions who did not succeed or didn't dare. Plus those snatched
and sent to "re-eduction camps" a.k.a gulag.

What I'm trying to figure out is how someone that came from the
previous communist East Germany doesn't know what he's talking about
when he discusses communism but some jackass who never lived under
such a regime can tell you all about it.


A lot of times it's brainwash. They were indoctrinated with this stuff
from the day they entered kindergarden and it then never stopped.

They never got any meaningful information. For example, I personally
know people from East Germany who never knew there were gulags in that
country with torture and all. We had a relative who was imprisoned in
one of those and later died of the health consequences the torture had
caused. Remember they had no free media. Even watching West German TV
could get people into hot water if a neighbor snitched and supposedly
about 10% of the population were registered snitches. When communism
fell the files (Stasi-Akten) were opened and some people's jaws dropped.
"What? He, too? I thought he was my friend!"

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-09-08 20:39, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 11:48:38 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-07 18:10, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 07:19:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-06 16:50, John B. wrote:

[...]

... Given Vietnam's history
since, say the 1850's, the average Vietnamese is probably as happy
under the present government as they were under previous regimes.


Having met a lot of Vietnamese people, including people where not all
relatives made it out, I do not think this is true. I also had relatives
who had to live in a former communist country. They would have been shot
if they had tried to leave. Nobody will ever tell me there is nothing
wrong with communism.

As a general statement, those who escaped from Vietnam were people
with a certain amount of money. Call them the middle class.


Not the ones I met. They didn't have much more than the shirt on their
backs and most didn't own real estate over there or had much in terms of
other wealth. A simple bicycle was already considered a luxury.


And tell us, how did these penniless people buy the boat, provision
the boat, acquire sufficient fuel, pay the bribes to the coast guard
and navy necessary to start the voyage?


The same way they do it in Mexiko, North Africa or the Middle East.
Scraping money and tradeable goods such as bicyles, rickety motorcycles
and whatever together. Which unfortunately also meant that not everyone
in a larger family could get a boat ticket, it was only enough for some.
Talk to people that went through this. Sometimes tears will well up in
their eyes. For example, because they had to leave mom, dad and a lot of
others behind.

Or at least read up on it.

http://www.complex.com/life/2015/12/...es-vietnam-war

Quote "He ate rice with salted potatoes most nights". Is this the fare
of a rich guy?

Then, quote "In order to pay for his spot on the boat, my dad sold his
bicycle and organized a small group of people to escape on the same
trip. He said asking his mother for money was out of the question
because "if she knew, she wouldn't let me go.""

Later, quote "But by the fourth week, they were running out of bartering
goods, so my dad and other refugees stopped along China's uninhabited
shores to search for food in the jungle. They found guava trees and
loaded up on the fruit—which ended up making everyone constipated. "Back
on the boat, everyone was helping each other poop," he said".


... Certainly
Thai pirates were active in robbing them and in cases where the
Vietnamese were subsequently rescued they all complained of being
robbed of money, and from personal knowledge an escape boat that
approached a drilling platform in Malaysian waters offered to pay for
food and water and a later boat that landed on Karimun Island in the
Java Sea offered to pay for food and water using gold.

But the so called middle class is a minority in Vietnam, The Boston
Consulting Group estimates that the "middle class" may include as much
as 1/3rd of the Vietnamese people by 2020.

It was the remainder, the "peasants" that I was referring to when I
said "the average". Perhaps I should change that to "the majority".


I was referring to the same group. Simple workers. They fled because of
brutal oppression. Here in the US they realized how much of a
perspective they can have, learning new stuff such as electronics that
would have remained a complete illusion in Vietnam.

Again, how did they do it" A "simple worker" in much of Asia in the
1950's and 60's made sufficient money to eat... most of the time. How
did they escape?


See above.


... And how did these fictional "simple workers" know
about the electronics in far off America?


They didn't. They saw the opportunity and took it. Asians are very good
learners and among the most motivated people I know. One of the guys I
had long chats with worked in final QC in an electronic systems
production line. A well-paying job. Back in Vietnam he was poor and knew
nothing about electronics. Luckily he got out.


As for the blissful life under the U.S. supported "democratically
elected government, well religious freedom didn't really exist, to the
extent that Buddhist monks burned themselves in protest. Of course
that was right and proper for the Christians (some 6 million
Catholics) to persecute the heathen Buddhists ( some 12 million).


A lot of bad things happened half a century or more ago, sometimes in
the name of "Western values" or 100+ years ago even Christian missionary
"work" (and I am saying that as a practicing Lutheran). However, things
got better, much better. In communism they didn't.


Try talking to a "Mainland" Chinese, or a Vietnamese. Things certainly
are better then they were in 1975. Good Lord! The Chinese peasants,
today, have so much money that they are taking vacations in Thailand.
Swarms of them.

In fact Chinese now make up 27% of all tourists to Thailand and also
spend more per day when they visit Thailand than either U.S. or
Europeans do.


Yes, some, from metropolitan areas and here is the harsh reality for the
others:

https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/...-than-1-a-day/


By the way, the number of "boat people" who escaped Vietnam and
arrived in a foreign country amounted to about 800,000, call it a
million and an additional 1,000,000 escaped by other means for a total
of 2,000,000 during the 20 year period from 1975 - 95. Or roughly
100,000 annually.

From a nation with an average population of about 61.5 million during
the same period.


That qualifies as mass exodus, especially considering the untold
millions who did not succeed or didn't dare. Plus those snatched and
sent to "re-eduction camps" a.k.a gulag.

Mass Exodus? 100,000 a year versus an average population of 61.5
million? That is 0.1%.

5% to 20% of the U.S. population that will get the flu, on average,
each year. But do you refer to this as an epidemic? If not then why do
you consider a paltry 0.1% a Mass Exodus?


Yes. A country that had around 50M people around the time of the exodus
and lost a total of 2M was facing a mass exodus. Not everyone left by
boat. Most of all, the people that were leaving were on average the
smarter ones who can figure out of to get out even in the absence of
wealth. Those who then went on to become technicians, engineers and
entreprneurs in the US and other places.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-09-08 15:11, wrote:
On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 3:00:46 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-08 14:51, wrote:

[...]

... Now I have black chain lube stains all over my hands.


Interestingly it gets black when riding lots of roads. On bike paths and
singletrack it doesn't turn black. I use the same lube (White Lightning
Epic Ride) for the road bike and the MTB. On the MTB I don't get black
hands unless I use it for valley errand rides when the road bike is down
for some reason like right now.

Which makes me wonder what all those bike path foes are doing to their
lungs.

I use white lightning as well. But I have a dozen different brands that I've tried and they're all the same.


I found it gives me the same chain life as a friend's method which is
much more cumbersome (cooking in wax) and his method won't work for MTBs
used on dusty trails.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-09-08 18:48, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/8/2017 6:00 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-08 14:51, wrote:

[...]

... Now I have black chain lube stains all over my hands.


Interestingly it gets black when riding lots of roads. On bike paths
and singletrack it doesn't turn black. I use the same lube (White
Lightning Epic Ride) for the road bike and the MTB. On the MTB I don't
get black hands unless I use it for valley errand rides when the road
bike is down for some reason like right now.

Which makes me wonder what all those bike path foes are doing to their
lungs.

There have been quite a few studies showing that bike commuters live
significantly longer than people who use other ways of getting to work.
Those studies have gotten that result consistently, even after
correcting for confounding variables.

So whatever road riders are doing to their lungs, it appears to be
beneficial overall. Cut the "Danger! Danger!" crap, Joerg.


And once again you did not think this through but started typing
instead. The commuter who has a nice pristine bike path like we did in
the Netherlands does not breathe in soot the whole ride. So he has a
chance to live much longer. _That_ is the point.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-09-08 18:52, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/8/2017 3:06 PM, Joerg wrote:
O

Same with the tires BTW. They had 60k miles, still half the tread but
were well past 10 years. Looked good buy common recommendations state
that means it's time to buy new tires. Try _that_ with a bicycle tire.

60,000 miles on the tires and they still had half the tread left?
Meaning your car tires would last 120,000 miles if they weren't too old?


Yes. Not 120000mi but 100000mi, with ease. I wrote half the tread and I
do not use tires until they are totally bald. It's not safe.


Joerg, you need someone to edit your fantastic claims, to give them at
least a _hint_ of plausibility.


You need to start buying good products.

The guy at Costco confirmed it when he said "But those tires are still
good!" ... "They are over 12 years old though" ... "Oh, ok".

--
Regards, Joerg

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