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  #51  
Old September 7th 17, 03:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,137
Default Taya Chain

On 2017-09-06 17:11, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 13:29:59 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-28 15:59, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/28/2017 4:28 PM, wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 1:59:20 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-28 13:43, sms wrote:
I replaced the chain that I broke on Saturday with one I had in my
garage that I must have purchased five to ten years ago.

It has a connecting link and it says "Taya" on it. It's for 6,7,8
gearing. It seems okay, but I think that this is the first time I've
used a chain with a connecting link since childhood. I looked up Taya
and it's a big Taiwanese chain manufacturer.


I still have a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on my road bike which I bought
from a friend as NOS, for $6 which was the old sticker price (the
sticker had already turned brownish). No link, mounted with hammer and
anvil as usual. To my utter amazement it doesn't show any measurable
stretch after over 2000mi and sometimes I really put the coals on
because of our hills. Even the old Wippermann chains could not rival
that. I am very religious about chain cleaning and lube though.

The old 5-6-7 speed Sachs chains wore out three days after the bike
was junked.


The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta hardening process was
not only exceptional but unsurpassed down to today except for possibly
Record chains. That ended with SRAM.


Why is that? In the automotive world such an advance in technology is
kept and further developed, not rescinded and chucked back into the dust
bin. Well, usually.

For example, transmissions nowadays typically last the whole lifetime of
a car. 20+ years for us on two vehicles so far, for everything. Vehicle
owners would have a hissy fit if they had to swap out a chain every 5000
miles.


I think that you are confusing reality with your own fantasies. In
years past I have worked with two engineers who had worked in the
automobile industry. They both said the same thing, that the major
effort in the motor industry was to "make it cheaper". One of them
described a cash for suggestion program that Ford (I believe) had for
a time and commented that when you made a million cars the removal of
one sheet metal screw in the firewall was of interest.


You've got to do your research first and then buy the right brand and
type of car. Which I always did except for my first car after getting
the degree (learned that lessen very fast).


As for a chain drive lasting 5,000 miles, it is perfectly feasible to
build a chain drive that will last more then 5,000 miles. Of course it
will cost more and be rather large and ugly and will, of course be
heavier then a current systems, but it can be built.... if anyone will
buy it.

What's his Face... the guy that lives in the low rent district of the
Irish Republic, did that a few years back and described how it was
done in loving detail.

I haven't bought a new chain in some time but I did see a 9 speed
chain with a price tag on it recently and it was 500 baht. In Usian
money that would be about US$15.07.

Are you telling me that people that sprint around on 1000+ dollar
bicycles worry about a bicycle chain that costs so little money? 1.5%
of the cost of the bike?



No, I am talking about people like me who also use bicycles for
transportation and not just for sports.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #52  
Old September 7th 17, 03:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,137
Default Taya Chain

On 2017-09-06 17:25, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 1:29:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-28 15:59, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/28/2017 4:28 PM, wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 1:59:20 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-28 13:43, sms wrote:
I replaced the chain that I broke on Saturday with one I
had in my garage that I must have purchased five to ten
years ago.

It has a connecting link and it says "Taya" on it. It's for
6,7,8 gearing. It seems okay, but I think that this is the
first time I've used a chain with a connecting link since
childhood. I looked up Taya and it's a big Taiwanese chain
manufacturer.


I still have a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on my road bike
which I bought from a friend as NOS, for $6 which was the old
sticker price (the sticker had already turned brownish). No
link, mounted with hammer and anvil as usual. To my utter
amazement it doesn't show any measurable stretch after over
2000mi and sometimes I really put the coals on because of our
hills. Even the old Wippermann chains could not rival that. I
am very religious about chain cleaning and lube though.

The old 5-6-7 speed Sachs chains wore out three days after the
bike was junked.


The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta hardening
process was not only exceptional but unsurpassed down to today
except for possibly Record chains. That ended with SRAM.


Why is that? In the automotive world such an advance in technology
is kept and further developed, not rescinded and chucked back into
the dust bin. Well, usually.


Simple - the motor runs quieter, and consumers buy it more readily.
Hence we saw plastic teeth on timing gears.


And they make that last 100,000mi before a PM swap. That's what it says
in my SUV's manual and when the old belts came out they still looked
like new.


In this case, the non-hardened chains make less noise, 'cuz the edges
go 'ting' less, and consumers perceive this as better shifting.
;-)


On a _bicycle_ ??

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #53  
Old September 7th 17, 04:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Taya Chain

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 5:11:09 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

I think that you are confusing reality with your own fantasies. In
years past I have worked with two engineers who had worked in the
automobile industry. They both said the same thing, that the major
effort in the motor industry was to "make it cheaper".


Gee then it must be the government forcing manufacturers to make cars safer since the fatalities per passenger mile have dropped so precipitously.
  #54  
Old September 7th 17, 04:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Taya Chain

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 5:25:33 PM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 1:29:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-28 15:59, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/28/2017 4:28 PM, wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 1:59:20 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-28 13:43, sms wrote:
I replaced the chain that I broke on Saturday with one I had in my
garage that I must have purchased five to ten years ago.

It has a connecting link and it says "Taya" on it. It's for 6,7,8
gearing. It seems okay, but I think that this is the first time I've
used a chain with a connecting link since childhood. I looked up Taya
and it's a big Taiwanese chain manufacturer.


I still have a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on my road bike which I bought
from a friend as NOS, for $6 which was the old sticker price (the
sticker had already turned brownish). No link, mounted with hammer and
anvil as usual. To my utter amazement it doesn't show any measurable
stretch after over 2000mi and sometimes I really put the coals on
because of our hills. Even the old Wippermann chains could not rival
that. I am very religious about chain cleaning and lube though.

The old 5-6-7 speed Sachs chains wore out three days after the bike
was junked.


The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta hardening process was
not only exceptional but unsurpassed down to today except for possibly
Record chains. That ended with SRAM.


Why is that? In the automotive world such an advance in technology is
kept and further developed, not rescinded and chucked back into the dust
bin. Well, usually.


Simple - the motor runs quieter, and consumers buy it more readily. Hence we saw plastic teeth on timing gears.

In this case, the non-hardened chains make less noise, 'cuz the edges go 'ting' less, and consumers perceive this as better shifting. ;-)


Doug, some woman came around the corner, dropped her water bottle (so she says while clutching her smartphone to her breast) fished around for it and ran into the back of my parked car turning it into a pile of scrape metal and plastic. Looking for replacements I find 5 year old cars with 200,000 miles on the original motors and not only said to be running smoothly but still getting good mileage. That isn't being done with plastic gears. I picked up a 2007 with 50,000 miles on it and expect it to last my lifetime with only normal maintenance.
  #55  
Old September 7th 17, 04:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Taya Chain

On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 7:14:44 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

... What makes you think that stopping the
spread of something - evil or not - is done for the benefit of the
future generation, rather than for one's own pleasure, revenge,
satisfaction, zeal, fullfillment of desire or of self, or as an
outlet of natural agression?


It is done for both. However, most of all for coming generations because
a decent human being care more for the offspring whether it's his own or
not.


I found this an EXTREMELY odd answer from Doug. I actually think far more of my step-children than I do of myself. Making the world a better and safer place for them is the object of government.

What possibly could make ANYONE that is sane think any differently?
  #56  
Old September 7th 17, 08:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,351
Default Taya Chain

On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 7:59:50 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-06 17:25, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 1:29:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-28 15:59, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/28/2017 4:28 PM, wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 1:59:20 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-28 13:43, sms wrote:
I replaced the chain that I broke on Saturday with one I
had in my garage that I must have purchased five to ten
years ago.

It has a connecting link and it says "Taya" on it. It's for
6,7,8 gearing. It seems okay, but I think that this is the
first time I've used a chain with a connecting link since
childhood. I looked up Taya and it's a big Taiwanese chain
manufacturer.


I still have a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on my road bike
which I bought from a friend as NOS, for $6 which was the old
sticker price (the sticker had already turned brownish). No
link, mounted with hammer and anvil as usual. To my utter
amazement it doesn't show any measurable stretch after over
2000mi and sometimes I really put the coals on because of our
hills. Even the old Wippermann chains could not rival that. I
am very religious about chain cleaning and lube though.

The old 5-6-7 speed Sachs chains wore out three days after the
bike was junked.


The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta hardening
process was not only exceptional but unsurpassed down to today
except for possibly Record chains. That ended with SRAM.


Why is that? In the automotive world such an advance in technology
is kept and further developed, not rescinded and chucked back into
the dust bin. Well, usually.


Simple - the motor runs quieter, and consumers buy it more readily.
Hence we saw plastic teeth on timing gears.


And they make that last 100,000mi before a PM swap. That's what it says
in my SUV's manual and when the old belts came out they still looked
like new.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
After how many decades of ****ing off customers because the plastic teeth stripped off of the gears after 40K miles?

  #57  
Old September 7th 17, 08:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,351
Default Taya Chain

On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 8:26:26 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 5:25:33 PM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 1:29:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-28 15:59, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/28/2017 4:28 PM, wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 1:59:20 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-28 13:43, sms wrote:
I replaced the chain that I broke on Saturday with one I had in my
garage that I must have purchased five to ten years ago.

It has a connecting link and it says "Taya" on it. It's for 6,7,8
gearing. It seems okay, but I think that this is the first time I've
used a chain with a connecting link since childhood. I looked up Taya
and it's a big Taiwanese chain manufacturer.


I still have a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on my road bike which I bought
from a friend as NOS, for $6 which was the old sticker price (the
sticker had already turned brownish). No link, mounted with hammer and
anvil as usual. To my utter amazement it doesn't show any measurable
stretch after over 2000mi and sometimes I really put the coals on
because of our hills. Even the old Wippermann chains could not rival
that. I am very religious about chain cleaning and lube though.

The old 5-6-7 speed Sachs chains wore out three days after the bike
was junked.


The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta hardening process was
not only exceptional but unsurpassed down to today except for possibly
Record chains. That ended with SRAM.


Why is that? In the automotive world such an advance in technology is
kept and further developed, not rescinded and chucked back into the dust
bin. Well, usually.


Simple - the motor runs quieter, and consumers buy it more readily. Hence we saw plastic teeth on timing gears.

In this case, the non-hardened chains make less noise, 'cuz the edges go 'ting' less, and consumers perceive this as better shifting. ;-)


Doug, some woman came around the corner, dropped her water bottle (so she says while clutching her smartphone to her breast) fished around for it and ran into the back of my parked car turning it into a pile of scrape metal and plastic. Looking for replacements I find 5 year old cars with 200,000 miles on the original motors and not only said to be running smoothly but still getting good mileage. That isn't being done with plastic gears. I picked up a 2007 with 50,000 miles on it and expect it to last my lifetime with only normal maintenance.


I'm talking about the automotive scene in the 1970s, Tom.

  #58  
Old September 8th 17, 02:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,967
Default Taya Chain

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 07:19:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-06 16:50, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 11:44:02 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-06 11:10, Doug Landau wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 12:27:34 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-02 07:56, wrote:
On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 7:49:34 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-30 18:00, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 10:41:49 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Tuesday, August 29, 2017 at 3:31:55 PM UTC-7, Joerg
wrote:
On 2017-08-29 14:38,
wrote:
On Tuesday, August 29, 2017 at 11:45:45 AM UTC-7,
Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-29 09:42, sms wrote:
On 8/28/2017 3:59 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/28/2017 4:28 PM,
wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 1:59:20 PM
UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-28 13:43, sms wrote:
I replaced the chain that I broke on
Saturday with one I had in my garage that I
must have purchased five to ten years ago.

It has a connecting link and it says "Taya"
on it. It's for 6,7,8 gearing. It seems
okay, but I think that this is the first
time I've used a chain with a connecting
link since childhood. I looked up Taya and
it's a big Taiwanese chain manufacturer.


I still have a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on
my road bike which I bought from a friend as
NOS, for $6 which was the old sticker price
(the sticker had already turned brownish). No
link, mounted with hammer and anvil as usual.
To my utter amazement it doesn't show any
measurable stretch after over 2000mi and
sometimes I really put the coals on because
of our hills. Even the old Wippermann chains
could not rival that. I am very religious
about chain cleaning and lube though.

The old 5-6-7 speed Sachs chains wore out
three days after the bike was junked.


The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta
hardening process was not only exceptional but
unsurpassed down to today except for possibly
Record chains. That ended with SRAM.

You can still find some NOS (new old stock) of the
Sedisport 6/7 chains. About $25.


I saw a lot of them on EBay at that price range
stating "pre-owned" in the ad, meaning used and who
knows for how many miles or whether properly
maintained.

The topper I ever saw was "pre-owned" underwear.
Yikes.

What if they were pre-owned by Elizabeth Taylor?


It was men's underwear ...

What makes you think that Elizabeth Taylor didn't wear
men's underwear? She got pretty large near the end.

In a less humorousness vein, did you know that "back in the
day" runners used to wear women's panties?


I remember a cowboy on horseback telling us something similar
and it was a real manly John Wayne style guy. "Now I'll let you
in on a secret on how to avoid rashes from very long rides, but
don't ya tell your mama or anyone for that matter, ya hear?"

Speaking of manly - virtually every single star in Hollywood
after the mid-40's had been in the service and many of them
(often the guys that played bad guys) had silver stars and purple
hearts. Even Soupy Sales and Ernest Borgnine. The one exception
was, surprisingly, John Wayne, who volunteered three times but
they wouldn't let him in because of a bad back or something.

Today we have these guys playing heros that don't even know what
a hero is.


John Wayne could certainly play them right. On Sunday we saw
"Flying Tigers" for the umpteenth time.

What was one of his sayings? "Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyhow".

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Uhm... OTOH, we have him saying to a Viet Namese 6-y/o, at the end of
'the green berets': "You're what this is all about." Yea, rite.
Uh-huh.


He was right. If we hadn't lost that war the 6-year olds back then would
now not have to live under communism.


But what's wrong with living under communism?



For example this:

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/201...apters/vietnam


... Given Vietnam's history
since, say the 1850's, the average Vietnamese is probably as happy
under the present government as they were under previous regimes.



Having met a lot of Vietnamese people, including people where not all
relatives made it out, I do not think this is true. I also had relatives
who had to live in a former communist country. They would have been shot
if they had tried to leave. Nobody will ever tell me there is nothing
wrong with communism.


As a general statement, those who escaped from Vietnam were people
with a certain amount of money. Call them the middle class. Certainly
Thai pirates were active in robbing them and in cases where the
Vietnamese were subsequently rescued they all complained of being
robbed of money, and from personal knowledge an escape boat that
approached a drilling platform in Malaysian waters offered to pay for
food and water and a later boat that landed on Karimun Island in the
Java Sea offered to pay for food and water using gold.

But the so called middle class is a minority in Vietnam, The Boston
Consulting Group estimates that the "middle class" may include as much
as 1/3rd of the Vietnamese people by 2020.

It was the remainder, the "peasants" that I was referring to when I
said "the average". Perhaps I should change that to "the majority".

As for the blissful life under the U.S. supported "democratically
elected government, well religious freedom didn't really exist, to the
extent that Buddhist monks burned themselves in protest. Of course
that was right and proper for the Christians (some 6 million
Catholics) to persecute the heathen Buddhists ( some 12 million).

By the way, the number of "boat people" who escaped Vietnam and
arrived in a foreign country amounted to about 800,000, call it a
million and an additional 1,000,000 escaped by other means for a total
of 2,000,000 during the 20 year period from 1975 - 95. Or roughly
100,000 annually.

From a nation with an average population of about 61.5 million during
the same period.

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #59  
Old September 8th 17, 02:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,967
Default Taya Chain

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 07:57:10 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-06 17:11, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 13:29:59 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-28 15:59, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/28/2017 4:28 PM, wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 1:59:20 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-28 13:43, sms wrote:
I replaced the chain that I broke on Saturday with one I had in my
garage that I must have purchased five to ten years ago.

It has a connecting link and it says "Taya" on it. It's for 6,7,8
gearing. It seems okay, but I think that this is the first time I've
used a chain with a connecting link since childhood. I looked up Taya
and it's a big Taiwanese chain manufacturer.


I still have a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on my road bike which I bought
from a friend as NOS, for $6 which was the old sticker price (the
sticker had already turned brownish). No link, mounted with hammer and
anvil as usual. To my utter amazement it doesn't show any measurable
stretch after over 2000mi and sometimes I really put the coals on
because of our hills. Even the old Wippermann chains could not rival
that. I am very religious about chain cleaning and lube though.

The old 5-6-7 speed Sachs chains wore out three days after the bike
was junked.


The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta hardening process was
not only exceptional but unsurpassed down to today except for possibly
Record chains. That ended with SRAM.


Why is that? In the automotive world such an advance in technology is
kept and further developed, not rescinded and chucked back into the dust
bin. Well, usually.

For example, transmissions nowadays typically last the whole lifetime of
a car. 20+ years for us on two vehicles so far, for everything. Vehicle
owners would have a hissy fit if they had to swap out a chain every 5000
miles.


I think that you are confusing reality with your own fantasies. In
years past I have worked with two engineers who had worked in the
automobile industry. They both said the same thing, that the major
effort in the motor industry was to "make it cheaper". One of them
described a cash for suggestion program that Ford (I believe) had for
a time and commented that when you made a million cars the removal of
one sheet metal screw in the firewall was of interest.


You've got to do your research first and then buy the right brand and
type of car. Which I always did except for my first car after getting
the degree (learned that lessen very fast).


And what research is that? I do not remember what make of automobile
you mentioned but I do remember thinking that it was a low end model,
whatever it was. Is that research? I just looked up "best SUV" and two
out of the three best SUV's (for 2017) were Honda so I'd guess that
you must be driving a Honda. The third choice was a Ford.



As for a chain drive lasting 5,000 miles, it is perfectly feasible to
build a chain drive that will last more then 5,000 miles. Of course it
will cost more and be rather large and ugly and will, of course be
heavier then a current systems, but it can be built.... if anyone will
buy it.

What's his Face... the guy that lives in the low rent district of the
Irish Republic, did that a few years back and described how it was
done in loving detail.

I haven't bought a new chain in some time but I did see a 9 speed
chain with a price tag on it recently and it was 500 baht. In Usian
money that would be about US$15.07.

Are you telling me that people that sprint around on 1000+ dollar
bicycles worry about a bicycle chain that costs so little money? 1.5%
of the cost of the bike?



No, I am talking about people like me who also use bicycles for
transportation and not just for sports.


I'm not so sure. You talk a lot about how much you ride a bicycle and
complain loudly about chain wear while James documents his rides - I
believe that he is in the 10,000 Mile?Km? region per year, and doesn't
seem to mention chain wear hardly at all.

It would seem logical to assume that you must be riding somewhere in
the neighborhood of what? 15,000 miles a year? If you never take a
holiday that is ~40 miles every day.
--
Cheers,

John B.

 




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