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#82
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Taya Chain
On 2017-09-08 13:19, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 12:46:23 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-08 09:20, sms wrote: On 9/7/2017 7:59 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-06 17:25, Doug Landau wrote: On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 1:29:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-08-28 15:59, AMuzi wrote: On 8/28/2017 4:28 PM, wrote: On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 1:59:20 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-08-28 13:43, sms wrote: I replaced the chain that I broke on Saturday with one I had in my garage that I must have purchased five to ten years ago. It has a connecting link and it says "Taya" on it. It's for 6,7,8 gearing. It seems okay, but I think that this is the first time I've used a chain with a connecting link since childhood. I looked up Taya and it's a big Taiwanese chain manufacturer. I still have a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on my road bike which I bought from a friend as NOS, for $6 which was the old sticker price (the sticker had already turned brownish). No link, mounted with hammer and anvil as usual. To my utter amazement it doesn't show any measurable stretch after over 2000mi and sometimes I really put the coals on because of our hills. Even the old Wippermann chains could not rival that. I am very religious about chain cleaning and lube though. The old 5-6-7 speed Sachs chains wore out three days after the bike was junked. The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta hardening process was not only exceptional but unsurpassed down to today except for possibly Record chains. That ended with SRAM. Why is that? In the automotive world such an advance in technology is kept and further developed, not rescinded and chucked back into the dust bin. Well, usually. Simple - the motor runs quieter, and consumers buy it more readily. Hence we saw plastic teeth on timing gears. And they make that last 100,000mi before a PM swap. That's what it says in my SUV's manual and when the old belts came out they still looked like new. The recommended timing belt change interval is very conservative. I've had it done on my SUV at 100K and while the belt did not look new when it came out, it was clear that it would have gone far longer without breaking. There are several advantages to timing belts versus timing chains, especially on engines where a long chain or belt is needed. A timing chain needs to have a system to keep it oiled. Chains stretch more than a kevlar reinforced neoprene belt. Chains are noisier. Chains are expensive to replace and contrary to what some people believe, they do NOT last "forever" just because there is no scheduled replacement interval. The best was my Citroen 2CV, the 16-horse version. Two meshed metal gears (no belt, no chain). It also had no distributor and no external belts to drive anything. The generator sat directly on the shaft and the propeller to cool the air-cooled engine sat in front of that on the same shaft. Gear drive is noisy. It whines. Nope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRCLxG2vQ88 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RFs5DIT27U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfhY0JZqbQU This is the kind I had: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LNmnlDeKh0 What sounds like a whine is from the tips of the metal propeller for air cooling which runs at the full crankshaft speed because it is mounted on it sans clutch. They didn't shape them in any way because these were very low-cost cars, it was just the raw stamped-out metal. It could only be heard with the hood open and not inside the car. Later when the upped it to 23hp there was a better shaped plastic propeller and that didn't have a whine. However, that more "powerful" engine broke with one of the traditions in that it had an alternator that was belt-driven instead of the DC-generator on the shaft. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#83
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Taya Chain
On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 8:50:55 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 9/8/2017 8:15 AM, wrote: On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 12:39:17 PM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote: On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 7:59:50 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-06 17:25, Doug Landau wrote: On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 1:29:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-08-28 15:59, AMuzi wrote: On 8/28/2017 4:28 PM, wrote: On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 1:59:20 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-08-28 13:43, sms wrote: I replaced the chain that I broke on Saturday with one I had in my garage that I must have purchased five to ten years ago. It has a connecting link and it says "Taya" on it. It's for 6,7,8 gearing. It seems okay, but I think that this is the first time I've used a chain with a connecting link since childhood. I looked up Taya and it's a big Taiwanese chain manufacturer. I still have a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on my road bike which I bought from a friend as NOS, for $6 which was the old sticker price (the sticker had already turned brownish). No link, mounted with hammer and anvil as usual. To my utter amazement it doesn't show any measurable stretch after over 2000mi and sometimes I really put the coals on because of our hills. Even the old Wippermann chains could not rival that. I am very religious about chain cleaning and lube though. The old 5-6-7 speed Sachs chains wore out three days after the bike was junked. The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta hardening process was not only exceptional but unsurpassed down to today except for possibly Record chains. That ended with SRAM. Why is that? In the automotive world such an advance in technology is kept and further developed, not rescinded and chucked back into the dust bin. Well, usually. Simple - the motor runs quieter, and consumers buy it more readily. Hence we saw plastic teeth on timing gears. And they make that last 100,000mi before a PM swap. That's what it says in my SUV's manual and when the old belts came out they still looked like new. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA After how many decades of ****ing off customers because the plastic teeth stripped off of the gears after 40K miles? The smaller Ford V6 uses rubber timing belts and they insist that you absolutely MUST replace them on 50,000 mile intervals or bye-bye motor. GMC apparently has a V8 that way. My stepdaughter's SUV broke a belt and exploded the motor - the mechanic told her not to replace the motor because the new one would do exactly the same thing. They are not made of rubber. They are typically made of a combination of neoprene and kevlar. It is true that the timing belt needs to be replaced at periodic intervals. My Ford has the larger V6 with a steel timing belt and they go just short of forever. These cars are advertised 5 years old and with 200,000 miles on them. People actually commute from Sacramento to San Francisco! Some vehicles have had large numbers of timing chain failures resulting in the destruction of the engine. The joke among mechanics is that when a manufacturer states "a timing chain will last the life of the engine" what they really mean is that "an engine will last the live of the timing chain." Also, timing chains, like bicycle chains, eventually stretch, and can jump a tooth. Timing chains should also be replaced periodically, even though there is no replacement schedule published. The timing belt replacement schedule is short and people invariably do not get it done on time. The timing chains offer NO problems if they are properly designed meaning heavy enough. Remember they ride in an oil bath and so really don't wear. The only thing that happens to them is that they can stretch from heavy acceleration. I never treated my cars in a way to wear them out. The cars normally left my hands in at least as good condition and they entered. Most of the time much better. I had a new Ford Ranger double cab for hauling around the bikes and that thing was in the hands of a guy a mile away from my home. It still looked brand new. And when he started that 6 it was quiet as an electric car. |
#84
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Taya Chain
On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 9:20:25 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 9/7/2017 7:59 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-06 17:25, Doug Landau wrote: On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 1:29:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-08-28 15:59, AMuzi wrote: On 8/28/2017 4:28 PM, wrote: On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 1:59:20 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-08-28 13:43, sms wrote: I replaced the chain that I broke on Saturday with one I had in my garage that I must have purchased five to ten years ago. It has a connecting link and it says "Taya" on it. It's for 6,7,8 gearing. It seems okay, but I think that this is the first time I've used a chain with a connecting link since childhood. I looked up Taya and it's a big Taiwanese chain manufacturer. I still have a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on my road bike which I bought from a friend as NOS, for $6 which was the old sticker price (the sticker had already turned brownish). No link, mounted with hammer and anvil as usual. To my utter amazement it doesn't show any measurable stretch after over 2000mi and sometimes I really put the coals on because of our hills. Even the old Wippermann chains could not rival that. I am very religious about chain cleaning and lube though. The old 5-6-7 speed Sachs chains wore out three days after the bike was junked. The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta hardening process was not only exceptional but unsurpassed down to today except for possibly Record chains. That ended with SRAM. Why is that? In the automotive world such an advance in technology is kept and further developed, not rescinded and chucked back into the dust bin. Well, usually. Simple - the motor runs quieter, and consumers buy it more readily. Hence we saw plastic teeth on timing gears. And they make that last 100,000mi before a PM swap. That's what it says in my SUV's manual and when the old belts came out they still looked like new. The recommended timing belt change interval is very conservative. I've had it done on my SUV at 100K and while the belt did not look new when it came out, it was clear that it would have gone far longer without breaking. There are several advantages to timing belts versus timing chains, especially on engines where a long chain or belt is needed. A timing chain needs to have a system to keep it oiled. Chains stretch more than a kevlar reinforced neoprene belt. Chains are noisier. Chains are expensive to replace and contrary to what some people believe, they do NOT last "forever" just because there is no scheduled replacement interval. Then you drive conservatively. As I said, most cars do not last long after the 50,000 mile replacement recommendation. Around here the repair shops are full of repairs from broken drive belts. But remember that this is little Mexico. |
#85
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Taya Chain
On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 9:39:51 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/8/2017 11:32 AM, wrote: O John, my wife's older Keo tells her if a tire is low. Is that by government edict? Um... yes, it is. My car warns me if my gas is getting low so that I won't run out on the freeway. Was that a government edict? We are getting small sedans not only swerving in front of tractor trailers but being struck so hard that they are doing multiple roll-overs with the cars totally unrecognizable afterwards and NO INJURIES to the passengers. What are the government edicts? You have to wear your seatbelts. There's a lot of these rules that you don't seem to know about. Maybe you should at least hit Wikipedia before posting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...fety_Standards If you don't know the business don't make your comments as you usually do. It is almost entirely the automotive industry that is improving auto safety. This is especially important as vehicles become less and less metal. On my smashed up 1999 Ford it appears that the only steel on it is the frame which is bent so badly that one wheel is so high that it isn't touching the ground. There is no damage at all in the passenger compartment. That's probably a result of the crash impact standards. You know, the things they do with the crash test dummies inside the cars? Regulation FMVSS No. 201 Frank - please actually read those standards rather than assume they are something of worth. |
#86
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Taya Chain
On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 10:20:34 AM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 8:39:10 AM UTC-7, wrote: On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 6:58:42 PM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums.../t-335969.html http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...-identify.html https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...placement.html http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Engine/chains.htm Doug - those were not plastic gears. It was a COATING that could peel off and cause problems. Mostly they plugged the oil system. I'd be careful blaming jumped timing on the coating. Tearing through the gears drag racing would beat the timing gears to death and this normally caused the timing gear failures. I've seen a tooth broken off and the jackass still driving it with Lord only knows how the gears would work. Tom shut yer mouth willya. I towed the old family car home myself from skool, and changed the timing chain and gears; the teeth were nylon and stripped off, and the chain had hopped and the timing marks on the gears were no longer aligned, but off by one tooth. Which is why all the backfiring and spasms when it wouldn't start. If it was really a plastic gear it would have broken the other teeth off as well. It was a plastic coated steel gear. As I said - generally the worst thing that would happen is that the plastic would peel off and clog the oil system. But when new they did have a more quiet operation. These were the sorts of cars I actually worked on myself. Until I got too important to have black grease stains all over my hands. Now I have black chain lube stains all over my hands. |
#87
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Taya Chain
On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 11:48:34 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-07 18:10, John B. wrote: On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 07:19:58 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-06 16:50, John B. wrote: [...] ... Given Vietnam's history since, say the 1850's, the average Vietnamese is probably as happy under the present government as they were under previous regimes. Having met a lot of Vietnamese people, including people where not all relatives made it out, I do not think this is true. I also had relatives who had to live in a former communist country. They would have been shot if they had tried to leave. Nobody will ever tell me there is nothing wrong with communism. As a general statement, those who escaped from Vietnam were people with a certain amount of money. Call them the middle class. Not the ones I met. They didn't have much more than the shirt on their backs and most didn't own real estate over there or had much in terms of other wealth. A simple bicycle was already considered a luxury. ... Certainly Thai pirates were active in robbing them and in cases where the Vietnamese were subsequently rescued they all complained of being robbed of money, and from personal knowledge an escape boat that approached a drilling platform in Malaysian waters offered to pay for food and water and a later boat that landed on Karimun Island in the Java Sea offered to pay for food and water using gold. But the so called middle class is a minority in Vietnam, The Boston Consulting Group estimates that the "middle class" may include as much as 1/3rd of the Vietnamese people by 2020. It was the remainder, the "peasants" that I was referring to when I said "the average". Perhaps I should change that to "the majority". I was referring to the same group. Simple workers. They fled because of brutal oppression. Here in the US they realized how much of a perspective they can have, learning new stuff such as electronics that would have remained a complete illusion in Vietnam. As for the blissful life under the U.S. supported "democratically elected government, well religious freedom didn't really exist, to the extent that Buddhist monks burned themselves in protest. Of course that was right and proper for the Christians (some 6 million Catholics) to persecute the heathen Buddhists ( some 12 million). A lot of bad things happened half a century or more ago, sometimes in the name of "Western values" or 100+ years ago even Christian missionary "work" (and I am saying that as a practicing Lutheran). However, things got better, much better. In communism they didn't. By the way, the number of "boat people" who escaped Vietnam and arrived in a foreign country amounted to about 800,000, call it a million and an additional 1,000,000 escaped by other means for a total of 2,000,000 during the 20 year period from 1975 - 95. Or roughly 100,000 annually. From a nation with an average population of about 61.5 million during the same period. That qualifies as mass exodus, especially considering the untold millions who did not succeed or didn't dare. Plus those snatched and sent to "re-eduction camps" a.k.a gulag. What I'm trying to figure out is how someone that came from the previous communist East Germany doesn't know what he's talking about when he discusses communism but some jackass who never lived under such a regime can tell you all about it. |
#88
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Taya Chain
On 2017-09-08 14:51, wrote:
[...] ... Now I have black chain lube stains all over my hands. Interestingly it gets black when riding lots of roads. On bike paths and singletrack it doesn't turn black. I use the same lube (White Lightning Epic Ride) for the road bike and the MTB. On the MTB I don't get black hands unless I use it for valley errand rides when the road bike is down for some reason like right now. Which makes me wonder what all those bike path foes are doing to their lungs. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#89
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Taya Chain
On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 2:51:48 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 10:20:34 AM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote: On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 8:39:10 AM UTC-7, wrote: On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 6:58:42 PM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums.../t-335969.html http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...-identify.html https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...placement.html http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Engine/chains.htm Doug - those were not plastic gears. It was a COATING that could peel off and cause problems. Mostly they plugged the oil system. I'd be careful blaming jumped timing on the coating. Tearing through the gears drag racing would beat the timing gears to death and this normally caused the timing gear failures. I've seen a tooth broken off and the jackass still driving it with Lord only knows how the gears would work. Tom shut yer mouth willya. I towed the old family car home myself from skool, and changed the timing chain and gears; the teeth were nylon and stripped off, and the chain had hopped and the timing marks on the gears were no longer aligned, but off by one tooth. Which is why all the backfiring and spasms when it wouldn't start. If it was really a plastic gear it would have broken the other teeth off as well. It was a plastic coated steel gear. As I said - generally the worst thing that would happen is that the plastic would peel off and clog the oil system. But when new they did have a more quiet operation. These were the sorts of cars I actually worked on myself. Until I got too important to have black grease stains all over my hands. Now I have black chain lube stains all over my hands. You have old-age dementia |
#90
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Taya Chain
On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 12:06:06 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-07 18:58, Doug Landau wrote: On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 12:39:17 PM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote: On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 7:59:50 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-09-06 17:25, Doug Landau wrote: On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 1:29:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-08-28 15:59, AMuzi wrote: On 8/28/2017 4:28 PM, wrote: On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 1:59:20 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-08-28 13:43, sms wrote: I replaced the chain that I broke on Saturday with one I had in my garage that I must have purchased five to ten years ago. It has a connecting link and it says "Taya" on it. It's for 6,7,8 gearing. It seems okay, but I think that this is the first time I've used a chain with a connecting link since childhood. I looked up Taya and it's a big Taiwanese chain manufacturer. I still have a Sachs-Sedis 7-speed chain on my road bike which I bought from a friend as NOS, for $6 which was the old sticker price (the sticker had already turned brownish). No link, mounted with hammer and anvil as usual. To my utter amazement it doesn't show any measurable stretch after over 2000mi and sometimes I really put the coals on because of our hills. Even the old Wippermann chains could not rival that. I am very religious about chain cleaning and lube though. The old 5-6-7 speed Sachs chains wore out three days after the bike was junked. The Sedis (later Sachs-Sedis) material and Delta hardening process was not only exceptional but unsurpassed down to today except for possibly Record chains. That ended with SRAM. Why is that? In the automotive world such an advance in technology is kept and further developed, not rescinded and chucked back into the dust bin. Well, usually. Simple - the motor runs quieter, and consumers buy it more readily. Hence we saw plastic teeth on timing gears. And they make that last 100,000mi before a PM swap. That's what it says in my SUV's manual and when the old belts came out they still looked like new. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA After how many decades of ****ing off customers because the plastic teeth stripped off of the gears after 40K miles? http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums.../t-335969.html http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...-identify.html https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...placement.html http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Engine/chains.htm You really are the master of premature conclusion. If you had followed carefully I own none of those vehicles and never will. There are reasons why not. Mine has toothed belts with fibers in them and metal gears. All of it including the toothed belts looked like new when changed. The only reason I changed them before 100k miles was reached was the vehicle age of 15 years. Turned out I could have left them in way longer. Same with the tires BTW. They had 60k miles, still half the tread but were well past 10 years. Looked good buy common recommendations state that means it's time to buy new tires. Try _that_ with a bicycle tire. I'm getting the idea that this is a group of a whole lot of old slow driving farts. I can destroy a new motor in one month driving simply by using full power too often. I have seen it done. I don't drive that way so it's never happened to me. |
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