new electric assist cycling technology

DougC wrote:
Steve Watkin wrote:
Find it hard to beleive that my Lafree costs more to run than even the
smallest I.C. bike

SW

Tell us, how many miles does it go on one charge, how many discharge
cycles does the battery withstand before needing replacement, and how
much do replacement batteries cost (in US$)?....
~


Well okay,,,--some searching has found me pages stating that for the LA
Free bikes: the "range" is 28 miles, the discharge life is 500 cycles
and the battery replacement cost I didn't run across (but it can
certainly be found) --but this bike is an /assist-only/. So to find out
how much power it is really putting out, we need to know the level of
assist it is providing. Anybody know?

The electric setup I compared was the Bionx system, which although it is
also an assist-only setup (it will not move the bicycle without the
rider pedaling), the Bionx lets you explicitly set the assist level. So
for example if the Bionx has a range of 30 miles when set to 100%
assist, then we can fairly estimate that the Bionx alone could have
pushed the bike about half those miles....
~

Okay how's this:
I couldn't find any reviews that stated the actual assist levels. But
what we /can/ do is compare the batteries to a known example.
--------
On this page--
http://www.norcom2000.com/users/dcim...pisode005.html

is my comparison of the four Bionx setups (different batteries). You see
the first battery noted is the NiMH 24V 8Ah that costs $395 and can
propel the bike about 4495 miles over its (the battery's) total expected
lifetime. (-?-Bionx only suggests 450 discharge cycles for NiMH's but
anyway-)

Now, this page:
http://www.myebike.com/bikes/lite2.html
says that the Giant Lite battery is a 24V 6.5Ah NiMH, and that the
replacement cost is $350. This price agrees with a second place selling
LaFree batteries for $360:
http://www.bernsonev.com/giant-parts...ries-c-34.html

If we assume that the LaFree motor and battery are no more efficient
than what the Bionx uses, then (6.5Ah/8Ah) x (4495 miles x (500/450
discharge cycles)) miles = 4058 miles total, you should expect to get
from an LaFree battery pack over 500 discharge cycles.

4058 miles / $350 battery replacement cost = $.0862 per mile, or 8.62
cents per mile.... Now look at the fuel costs for the 4-cycle engine on
my page; with fuel at $2.50/gal and assuming 200 mpg, the gas engine's
cost is ~1.25 cents per mile.

Oh, and purchase price?... That's cheaper too. The LaFree bike cost
around $1300, many places report. A gasoline engine kit costs from $150
up to $600 (for the Golden Eagle kit I chose), plus a suitable bike
(which may be as cheap as $100).

If you figure matters on a cost-per-power comparison, the gasoline
engine would come out way on top again. The Bionx setup has a high
"peak" output, but that [most likely] is at zero RPMs. Most of the time,
it doesn't put out more than 300 or so watts, where the Robin 35cc
4-cycle engine (on the setup I chose) will put out ~800+ watts cruising
power (1.1 hp), and can peak at up to 1200+ watts (1.6 hp).
--------

I'd LOVE to see a electric setup (that is available to consumers) and
that can compete on a cost-per-mile with gasoline... but I've done
figures for a few setups that were supposed to be technically
outstanding, and they all still fell /way/ short of what a 4-cycle
engine burning gasoline could do.
~

with fuel at $2.50/gal and assuming 200 mpg, the gas engine's
cost is ~1.25 cents per mile.

nobody gets 200 mpg in a car

nash wrote:
with fuel at $2.50/gal and assuming 200 mpg, the gas engine's
cost is ~1.25 cents per mile.

nobody gets 200 mpg in a car




-The 200 mpg rating is for a gasoline-engined /bicycle/.

"DougC" wrote in message
...
nash wrote:
with fuel at $2.50/gal and assuming 200 mpg, the gas engine's
cost is ~1.25 cents per mile.

nobody gets 200 mpg in a car




-The 200 mpg rating is for a gasoline-engined /bicycle/.

Then why is he comparing an electric bike to owning a four cyclinder car?

In article IRSmh.550967$5R2.498717@pd7urf3no, zwepytzkehillc9
@jetable.net says...

"DougC" wrote in message
...
nash wrote:
with fuel at $2.50/gal and assuming 200 mpg, the gas engine's
cost is ~1.25 cents per mile.

nobody gets 200 mpg in a car




-The 200 mpg rating is for a gasoline-engined /bicycle/.

Then why is he comparing an electric bike to owning a four cyclinder car?

He's not; he's comparing an electric bike to a 4-*stroke* gasoline-
powered bike/scooter.


--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

In article ,
DougC writes:

If you figure matters on a cost-per-power comparison, the gasoline
engine would come out way on top again. The Bionx setup has a high
"peak" output, but that [most likely] is at zero RPMs. Most of the time,
it doesn't put out more than 300 or so watts, where the Robin 35cc
4-cycle engine (on the setup I chose) will put out ~800+ watts cruising
power (1.1 hp), and can peak at up to 1200+ watts (1.6 hp).

In some jurisdictions that wattage would put such a vehicle
over the threshold of qualifying as a Power Assisted Bicycle,
and into the realm of motor(ized) vehicles requiring licensing,
insurance and registration, as well as other complications such
as street-legal lights.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Terryc wrote:
Steve Watkin wrote:

Find it hard to beleive that my Lafree costs more to run than even the
smallest I.C. bike

IC is subsidised widely by society, plus there are tons of small IC
motors around (economy of scale)

In what way is the I.C. engine "widely subsidized by society"?

If you mean its negative effects aren't fully reflected in
its pricing, than that's fine, but neither is a host of other
things as well, including electric power and its storage
(batteries).

There are also tons of electric motors and batteries around
too.


SMH

DougC wrote:
I'd LOVE to see a electric setup (that is available to consumers) and
that can compete on a cost-per-mile with gasoline... but I've done
figures for a few setups that were supposed to be technically
outstanding, and they all still fell /way/ short of what a 4-cycle
engine burning gasoline could do.

Good comparison... but what about a scooter with cheap lead-acid
batteries? That would be much more economical, since as you pointed
out, the battery cost is the biggest expense.

$155 for batteries for the Ego2... which costs $1200 new.

http://www.egovehicles.com/mm5/merch...gory_Code=ELEC

They say it will last ~10k miles, but even if it is replaced at 5k
miles, it is only 3.1 cents/mile. Since these are standard batteries,
they could probably be purchased more cheaply elsewhere.

Tom Keats wrote:

In some jurisdictions that wattage would put such a vehicle
over the threshold of qualifying as a Power Assisted Bicycle,
and into the realm of motor(ized) vehicles requiring licensing,
insurance and registration, as well as other complications such
as street-legal lights.


cheers,
Tom


This is true--certainly in the US, which I have (am) experiencing
first-hand. However-that is a regulatory inefficiency, rather than a
technical one.
~