A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Social Issues
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Ride an SUB not an SUV



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91  
Old March 8th 07, 06:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.autos.driving,alt.planning.urban,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
donquijote1954
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,851
Default THE REVOLUTION WILL

On Mar 6, 4:58 pm, Bill Baka wrote:
Electric cars? Guess what. Our electric grid is near capacity and
you want to plug your cars in? Great, you feel good about having an
expensive, stupid electric car while somebody is out building a coal
or oil plant to generate electricity and ship it to you. Okay, they
might be able to put out less pollution but it is still coal or oil.
Electricity doesn't just come out of you plug. It does, however, grow
on trees. Okay, no really, but fuel grows in fields. If you want to
cut your dependence on fossil fuels, switch to vegetable oil. You
busses and trucks and cars can run on that. It's simple, less
pollution, and easily stops the dependence on fossils. Okay, don't
want that, go with bio-diesel.


REPUGLICAN ALERT!!!


I almost suspected that, but then she went on to accept bicycles as a
good idea, which is clearly the first line of defense against Global
Warming. Our warmongering president spoke about alternative energy,
but "forgot" about the one that runs on banana and water: the bicycle.
If he only emphasized the bike, we would be far better off.

Sorry for the rant, but if you are going to save the world, be
practical and do thing that really make a difference, not just get
what you don't want to see out of your sight.


Sorry for the rant, but this


Dude,
Slow down.
The idea for electric cars should be that if one just has to own an SUV
(soccer mom or guy who needs the hauling space) then they should have
one. They should also be required to buy a little tiny, barely can get
into it, econo-box for running around town to do those non-hauling
trips. The little one can be a total electric that you plug in at night
and never go over 30 miles in one day.
The insurance companies could help by making large vehicles pay a much
bigger fee for comprehensive collision liability for the SUV and almost
nothing for the little econo box.
The bottom line is that if you are an ecology abuser you get to pay.
Bill Baka- Hide quoted text -


That's a great idea above. Pity the SUVs are actually promoted in
every way.

To sum it up: THE REVOLUTION 1) WILL EMPHASIZE MULTIMODAL
TRANSPORTATION, 2) PROMOTE NEW TECHNOLOGIES AND 3) WILL PENALIZE THE
BIG AND STUPID.

Ads
  #92  
Old March 8th 07, 06:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.autos.driving,alt.planning.urban,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
nash
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,061
Default Ride an SUB not an SUV


"Pat" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 8, 11:01 am, Bill Baka wrote:
Pat wrote:
Finally, electric that needs recharging like you have would work for
most people around here. We have too many people traveling too far
for it to work. Tomorrow I'm going about 7.5 hours for a trip.
That's a long ways to go on a battery, esp. if you are using it to
heat the car (10F and 70mph wind chill). It might work in some areas,
but you're still burning something for electricity.


(side note, we are 100% hydro, but not for environmental reasons. our
muni electric buys it from Canada because it's cheap).


Rather than getting rid of cars, that aren't used all that much. Why
not just get rid of air conditioners. they are on all of the time and
use a huge amount of electricity.


Try living in central California where 100's are common or Arkansas
where 98 degrees and 98% humidity makes sweating in the shade a sport.
Some places need A/C.
For the record I owned a huge 5,000 square foot house in Minnesota north
of the twin cities and it had 4 kinds of heat.
1. Propane forced air.
2. Electric baseboards.
3. Oil fired hot water radiators.
4. 2 wood burning stoves and a fireplace.
5. Even a fire place in the detached 1,000 square foot garage.
When it got to 25 below zero I used wood as much as possible but needed
to use the others when the wood ran out at about 3 in the morning.
Except for the wood which just required me to chop it, the rest cost
real money.
There are no free rides.
Bill Baka


That's exactly my point. AC allowed the development of California
and Arkansas and then people pitch about the energy usage an
pollution. If you want to do something real about pollution, move
somewhere that requires less energy to live. Even as it is,
electricity is notoriously inefficient. I heat my house from maybe
November to April (or so, depending on the year) and then use no power
for heating and cooling (other than cooking and hot water) for the
rest of the year. No energy usage is the only free ride. I use 1 fan
upstairs if it really hot out. It isn't cars that create the energy
crisis and pollution, it is AC. Its impact on society has been huge.


What do you mean pollution? Water vapor?
That is not decreasing the ozone and causing methane fires on top of
permafrost so the sea level rises 7 metres in decades not centuries.


  #93  
Old March 8th 07, 06:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.autos.driving,alt.planning.urban,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
Amy Blankenship
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 888
Default Ride an SUB not an SUV


"Pat" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 8, 11:01 am, Bill Baka wrote:
Pat wrote:
Finally, electric that needs recharging like you have would work for
most people around here. We have too many people traveling too far
for it to work. Tomorrow I'm going about 7.5 hours for a trip.
That's a long ways to go on a battery, esp. if you are using it to
heat the car (10F and 70mph wind chill). It might work in some areas,
but you're still burning something for electricity.


(side note, we are 100% hydro, but not for environmental reasons. our
muni electric buys it from Canada because it's cheap).


Rather than getting rid of cars, that aren't used all that much. Why
not just get rid of air conditioners. they are on all of the time and
use a huge amount of electricity.


Try living in central California where 100's are common or Arkansas
where 98 degrees and 98% humidity makes sweating in the shade a sport.
Some places need A/C.
For the record I owned a huge 5,000 square foot house in Minnesota north
of the twin cities and it had 4 kinds of heat.
1. Propane forced air.
2. Electric baseboards.
3. Oil fired hot water radiators.
4. 2 wood burning stoves and a fireplace.
5. Even a fire place in the detached 1,000 square foot garage.
When it got to 25 below zero I used wood as much as possible but needed
to use the others when the wood ran out at about 3 in the morning.
Except for the wood which just required me to chop it, the rest cost
real money.
There are no free rides.
Bill Baka


That's exactly my point. AC allowed the development of California
and Arkansas and then people pitch about the energy usage an
pollution. If you want to do something real about pollution, move
somewhere that requires less energy to live. Even as it is,
electricity is notoriously inefficient. I heat my house from maybe
November to April (or so, depending on the year) and then use no power
for heating and cooling (other than cooking and hot water) for the
rest of the year. No energy usage is the only free ride. I use 1 fan
upstairs if it really hot out. It isn't cars that create the energy
crisis and pollution, it is AC. Its impact on society has been huge.


So wouldn't you agree that farmland protection in warm areas (which often
are well-suited to growing crops) would also serve the purpose of preventing
the building of McMansions in those areas, which will have a legacy of
increased power consumption for at least 50 years?


  #94  
Old March 8th 07, 07:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.autos.driving,alt.planning.urban,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
nash
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,061
Default THE REVOLUTION WILL


"donquijote1954" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 6, 4:58 pm, Bill Baka wrote:
Electric cars? Guess what. Our electric grid is near capacity and
you want to plug your cars in? Great, you feel good about having an
expensive, stupid electric car while somebody is out building a coal
or oil plant to generate electricity and ship it to you. Okay, they
might be able to put out less pollution but it is still coal or oil.
Electricity doesn't just come out of you plug. It does, however, grow
on trees. Okay, no really, but fuel grows in fields. If you want to
cut your dependence on fossil fuels, switch to vegetable oil. You
busses and trucks and cars can run on that. It's simple, less
pollution, and easily stops the dependence on fossils. Okay, don't
want that, go with bio-diesel.


REPUGLICAN ALERT!!!


I almost suspected that, but then she went on to accept bicycles as a
good idea, which is clearly the first line of defense against Global
Warming. Our warmongering president spoke about alternative energy,
but "forgot" about the one that runs on banana and water: the bicycle.
If he only emphasized the bike, we would be far better off.

Sorry for the rant, but if you are going to save the world, be
practical and do thing that really make a difference, not just get
what you don't want to see out of your sight.


Sorry for the rant, but this


Dude,
Slow down.
The idea for electric cars should be that if one just has to own an SUV
(soccer mom or guy who needs the hauling space) then they should have
one. They should also be required to buy a little tiny, barely can get
into it, econo-box for running around town to do those non-hauling
trips. The little one can be a total electric that you plug in at night
and never go over 30 miles in one day.
The insurance companies could help by making large vehicles pay a much
bigger fee for comprehensive collision liability for the SUV and almost
nothing for the little econo box.
The bottom line is that if you are an ecology abuser you get to pay.
Bill Baka- Hide quoted text -


That's a great idea above. Pity the SUVs are actually promoted in
every way.

To sum it up: THE REVOLUTION 1) WILL EMPHASIZE MULTIMODAL
TRANSPORTATION, 2) PROMOTE NEW TECHNOLOGIES AND 3) WILL PENALIZE THE
BIG AND STUPID.

And penalize the stupid shouters first


  #96  
Old March 8th 07, 07:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.autos.driving,alt.planning.urban,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
Pat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 671
Default Ride an SUB not an SUV

On Mar 8, 12:40 pm, "Amy Blankenship"
wrote:
"Pat" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Mar 8, 11:01 am, Bill Baka wrote:
Pat wrote:
Finally, electric that needs recharging like you have would work for
most people around here. We have too many people traveling too far
for it to work. Tomorrow I'm going about 7.5 hours for a trip.
That's a long ways to go on a battery, esp. if you are using it to
heat the car (10F and 70mph wind chill). It might work in some areas,
but you're still burning something for electricity.


(side note, we are 100% hydro, but not for environmental reasons. our
muni electric buys it from Canada because it's cheap).


Rather than getting rid of cars, that aren't used all that much. Why
not just get rid of air conditioners. they are on all of the time and
use a huge amount of electricity.


Try living in central California where 100's are common or Arkansas
where 98 degrees and 98% humidity makes sweating in the shade a sport.
Some places need A/C.
For the record I owned a huge 5,000 square foot house in Minnesota north
of the twin cities and it had 4 kinds of heat.
1. Propane forced air.
2. Electric baseboards.
3. Oil fired hot water radiators.
4. 2 wood burning stoves and a fireplace.
5. Even a fire place in the detached 1,000 square foot garage.
When it got to 25 below zero I used wood as much as possible but needed
to use the others when the wood ran out at about 3 in the morning.
Except for the wood which just required me to chop it, the rest cost
real money.
There are no free rides.
Bill Baka


That's exactly my point. AC allowed the development of California
and Arkansas and then people pitch about the energy usage an
pollution. If you want to do something real about pollution, move
somewhere that requires less energy to live. Even as it is,
electricity is notoriously inefficient. I heat my house from maybe
November to April (or so, depending on the year) and then use no power
for heating and cooling (other than cooking and hot water) for the
rest of the year. No energy usage is the only free ride. I use 1 fan
upstairs if it really hot out. It isn't cars that create the energy
crisis and pollution, it is AC. Its impact on society has been huge.


So wouldn't you agree that farmland protection in warm areas (which often
are well-suited to growing crops) would also serve the purpose of preventing
the building of McMansions in those areas, which will have a legacy of
increased power consumption for at least 50 years?


No, it won't prevent anything. It just means the they will build them
farther out from the city in another field or cut down another
hillside to build them. If someone is hell-bent on building a house,
they will build it somewhere.

  #98  
Old March 8th 07, 09:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.autos.driving,alt.planning.urban,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
donquijote1954
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,851
Default another T-shirt

Talking into account that most buses still pollute --if so much less--
here's another T-shirt that emphasizes that buses are unselfish. Yep,
the same way SUVs are an expression of selfishness and egomaniacal
behavior, buses are an expression of good social behavior.

No reason to hide behind tinted windows like SUV owners do...

http://www.zazzle.com/product/235865034222897517


  #99  
Old March 8th 07, 10:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.autos.driving,alt.planning.urban,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
donquijote1954
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,851
Default Ride an SUB not an SUV

The Tango microcar...

"1) Will it meet NTSC safety ratings?"

No, motorcycles are not required so (not even helmets where I live).
If you don't feel safe in a car, how about people riding a bike? Or
simply ride a bus.

"2) Will it meet insurance companies safety ratings. Crash tests?"

Same above.

"3) You won't get rid of the big lanes as your not gonna get rid of
Semi's and other trucks."

Safety would start with good driving practices and not based on size,
in which SUVs rule. LANE DISCIPLINE would be enforced and the CELL
PHONE would be punished as much as the bottle.

Drinking Coke is OK.

  #100  
Old March 8th 07, 11:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.autos.driving,alt.planning.urban,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
Daryl Hunt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 134
Default Ride an SUB not an SUV


"Pat" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 6, 10:19 pm, "Daryl Hunt" wrote:
"Bill Baka" wrote in message

...



Pat wrote:
On Mar 5, 7:26 am, "George Conklin"
wrote:
"Daryl Hunt" wrote in message


...


"George Conklin" wrote in message
thlink.net...
"Bill Baka" wrote in message
gy.net...
donquijote1954 wrote:
On Mar 4, 9:49 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
wrote:
On Mar 3, 11:47 am, "donquijote1954"

wrote:
Hey, be smart. You are part of the solution, not part of the
problem.
And you save the buck. Dinosaurs are a thing of the past and
the
little furry animals are here to stay.
There are two versions of it...
bike:
http://www.zazzle.com/product/235847689274986069
and bus:
http://www.zazzle.com/product/235396990102826110
OK, how is the bus not polluting?
You don't see it everyday, but it's possible. Just some new
technologies and some political will to make it happen...
Heaven Help Bus
A visit to Iceland spurs dreams of a hydrogen future
The loneliness of the long-distance rider.I have seen the future,
and
it works.
The 111 bus rolls quietly up to the Mjodd terminal in eastern
Reykjavik at 11:19 a.m., and I climb aboard. For 45 minutes, we
cruise
through the suburbs and then to the central square downtown,
picking
up and discharging eight passengers along the way. Fuel cells
that
would have filled the space of several passenger seats five years
ago
are now small enough to fit in the roof panels. And out the
exhaust
pipe: a trickle of water.
http://www.grist.org/comments/soapbo...n-hydrogenbus/


I have a dream...that someday buses will not pollute. Actually we
could make it happen now much easier than having all the cars be
replaced with hybrid. Just change the fleet of buses to hydrogen
or
some other technologies out there.
We can make it happen with THE REVOLUTION. Coming soon...
Too optimistic. Somebody, somewhere is probably burning coal or
oil
to
make the electricity to electrolyze the water to make the
Hydrogen.
It only really works if the electricity comes from wind, solar,
hydro,
or, dare I say it, NUculear (Bush pronunciation).
Bill Baka
Anything which makes a bus more efficient would make a car even
more
efficient than the bus. Right now transit buses waste fuel big
time.
Not all, I think I read somewhere where a city went to Electrics.
Ok, that exports pollution to rural areas. And of course a plug-in
hybrid
electric car would meet about 90% of the commuting needs of America.


This whole Tango and electric car stuff is a load of BS. Period. It
is all a bunch of tree-hugging hyporcrits who want to feel good about
the environments without actually have to do anything about it or be
inconvenienced. Period. There are solutions out there and they are
fairly simple. But it isn't this crap.


Electric cars? Guess what. Our electric grid is near capacity and
you want to plug your cars in? Great, you feel good about having an
expensive, stupid electric car while somebody is out building a coal
or oil plant to generate electricity and ship it to you. Okay, they
might be able to put out less pollution but it is still coal or oil.
Electricity doesn't just come out of you plug. It does, however, grow
on trees. Okay, no really, but fuel grows in fields. If you want to
cut your dependence on fossil fuels, switch to vegetable oil. You
busses and trucks and cars can run on that. It's simple, less
pollution, and easily stops the dependence on fossils. Okay, don't
want that, go with bio-diesel.


REPUGLICAN ALERT!!!


Meanwhile, you little Tangos. They are nothing but publicity stunts.
They are okay for backup transportation in a city but that's about
it. But so is a motorcycle. Oh, but a motorcycle is "old technology"
and doesn't have the allure of a slick Tango. Yeah, that's my point.
If you people really gave a damn you be out riding motorcycles right
now. Plus you can throw on a trailer for groceries if you want.


Me? I don't ride public transportation and I drive a minivan. So
there you go. But we don't have public transporation and if we did,
it's be VERY wasteful because everyone around here has a car. And I
drive a van to SAVE gasoline. I haul lots of kids to and froe
practices and having a van that can carry 4 or 5 teens plus gear sure
beats taking two trips. But when the weather is nice and I have to go
somewhere, I ride one of my 3 motorcycles that range in gas milage
from about 35 mpg to about 100 mpg. And the less expensive the bike I
have, the better the gas mileage. Plus they take up very little
parking. But you know what, riding the most fuel efficient vehicle on
the road has NOTHING to do with gas mileage. They are just fun to
ride. My smallest bike doesn't have much of a motor, but by 450 cc
bike that is 25 years old still gets 70 mph and can out accelerate and
outperform most cars on the road.


So if you want to do something about energy and efficiency and
pollution, go do it. But the whole "make it electric" arguement is
pretty stupid because all you are doing is changing where the fuel is
burned. And none of that stuff about "hydro" because all hydro is
used to 100% capacity and any incrimental electricity is fossil. Oh,
so you want more hydro. I'm fine with that. But I live in the
country because I like it and I don't want any more valleys flooded so
people in cities can go do stupid things. Go damn up your own
rivers. Go put a damn across the Hudson. NYC has so many reseviours
upstate they they have already devastated the Catskills. Pretty lakes
you say? Yeah, but what about the people that used to live there who
were flooded out of their homes. What about the rivers that are gone
and the trout that aren't there? So maybe nuclear is a good thing.
It might be. In 30 or 40 years when they get done cleaning up the
nuclear reprocessing plant 30 miles from here, we'll discuss it.
Actually I don't mind it, so if you want nuclear for Long Island or
NYC, go put it on Long Island or NYC. Oh, that's right, they tried
that and the people didnt want it. So if you want nuclear, why do YOU
want the electricity but you want ME to deal with the consequences? I
don't dump crap in your city so you keep your crap out of my rural
area.


As for bicycles? A great idea. Probably everyone in NYC and most
other cities should have one or a scooter or small motorcyle. But
they are not the answer for everyone.


$6 gas. What about it. I'll go down on the Rez and buy it for $5.
And as soon as the price of oil exceeds that of cooking oil, bio
diesel sure will look sweat. Okay, the roads will smell like a
chinese restaurant, but some people will like that.


Fuel cells might use gas more efficently, but they are still using
gas. So what's the big deal. Moving a car that some drives in a city
from 30 mpg to 50 saves 13 gallon of fuel over 1000 miles. Moving a
truck from 8 mpg to 12 mpg saves 42 gallons. Biodiesel would save 125
gallons of oil.


Sorry for the rant, but if you are going to save the world, be
practical and do thing that really make a difference, not just get
what you don't want to see out of your sight.


Sorry for the rant, but this


Dude,
Slow down.
The idea for electric cars should be that if one just has to own an SUV
(soccer mom or guy who needs the hauling space) then they should have
one.
They should also be required to buy a little tiny, barely can get into
it,
econo-box for running around town to do those non-hauling trips. The
little one can be a total electric that you plug in at night and never
go
over 30 miles in one day.
The insurance companies could help by making large vehicles pay a much
bigger fee for comprehensive collision liability for the SUV and almost
nothing for the little econo box.
The bottom line is that if you are an ecology abuser you get to pay.
Bill Baka


Yes, and gas is heading back to over 3 bucks a gallon. Since the
technology
is already here for the electric vehicles (I ride one myself and haven't
paid for fuel since Nov 2004) one would think that there might be
somewhat
or greater of an incentive to get that ol electric bike, car, MC or
MiniVan
going just by pluging it in. Our grid is well below needing help so we
have
more than we need. Shoot, chances are, we sell some of it to where you
are.
But I doubt if electric vehicles will bust many grids since the
recharging
takes less than a normal lightbulb. Mine takes about 2 to 5 amp per
hour.
That's many times less than a light bulb and about the same as a decent
clock radio.


Sure you've bought lots and lots of fuel. You've just bought it
somewhere else and given that area your pollution.

I'm not sure how an electric MC would work. Seems like it would be
awkward. Besides, you would Harley get their sound?

We have more that we need, sometimes, but we don't during peak and
that's the problem. Interestingly, were I live, we have winter peak,
not summer peak, so we don't contribute to the problem as much as all
of the folk who depend on AC to live through the summer. Of course,
it's 5F right now, snowing, and we have 2.5 feet of snow on the
ground.)

Finally, electric that needs recharging like you have would work for
most people around here. We have too many people traveling too far
for it to work. Tomorrow I'm going about 7.5 hours for a trip.
That's a long ways to go on a battery, esp. if you are using it to
heat the car (10F and 70mph wind chill). It might work in some areas,
but you're still burning something for electricity.

(side note, we are 100% hydro, but not for environmental reasons. our
muni electric buys it from Canada because it's cheap).

Rather than getting rid of cars, that aren't used all that much. Why
not just get rid of air conditioners. they are on all of the time and
use a huge amount of electricity.


Our electrics comes from hydroelectric power strictly. We export the excess
to other regions and export our coal to those cities in the east that use
the coal for electric power. Our air is much cleaner than most. But, even
so, it's starting to get a bit stale. Not from industry but from motor
vehicle emissions.

AS for getting rid of cars, we won't do that. It's stupid to even bring up.
But our around town running can be done with electrics that polute less than
even your Hydros (hydrogen). But, then again, Hydro around here means water
and we use Hydroelectrics to make our electricity with juice to burn.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 4371 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Try SPAMfighter for free now!


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ride Report ( Long) - Children's Cancer Institute Bike Ride - Townsville to Cairns HughMann Australia 2 August 7th 05 04:08 AM
Early-bird bike ride helps Sierra Club ("Morning Glory" ride) Garrison Hilliard General 5 July 8th 05 05:44 PM
Bike Ride Pictures: Club ride to Half Moon Bay, CA, June 2005 Bill Bushnell Rides 0 June 28th 05 07:05 AM
Bike Ride Pictures: Sequoia Century Worker's Ride (200k, w/variations), June 2005 Bill Bushnell Rides 0 June 19th 05 03:31 PM
[Texas] Bridgewood Farms "Ride From the Heart" Charity Bike Ride Greg Bretting Rides 0 January 15th 04 06:38 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.