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Should Cyclists Pack Guns?
On Apr 19, 12:34 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:18:19 -0400, Just A User wrote: Curtis L. Russell wrote: On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:51:02 -0400, Just A User wrote: Upon mentioning VA Tech, I have to put in my two cents, Cho was a wack job, but personally I think the right to bear arm part of the constitution needs to be re thought. In countries, such as the U.K. where gun control laws are very strict, they don't have incidents like those at the campus on Monday. Well, actually they do, but not in the quantity that the U.S. has, and they seem to be somewhat less successful, even if the intent was there. There have been incidents in Germany and Scotland and several in Canada. Starting this thread - often initiated by those who like to tell everyone what they will do to this driver or another - is pretty much stupid. Doing it today is what makes it tasteless to boot. Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels... I agree it's pretty tasteless, as I pointed out, until all guns are banned and destroyed, these types of events will happen, but until that time comes, control is the key. Ken Yeh, right. Let's only let the Government have them. Where did you get that one, Mein Kampf ? Don't you know any history? The Nazi introduced gun control about 5-6 years after attaining power. They were not particularally worried about a few burgers with guns. -- Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available onlinehttp://pmilligan.net/palm/ |
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#62
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Should Cyclists Pack Guns?
On Apr 19, 9:01 pm, jcr wrote:
Brent P wrote: In article , Just A User wrote: Upon mentioning VA Tech, I have to put in my two cents, Cho was a wack job, but personally I think the right to bear arm part of the constitution needs to be re thought. In countries, such as the U.K. where gun control laws are very strict, they don't have incidents like those at the campus on Monday. 1) They do. 2) Crime is up, as citizens cannot defend themselves. The criminals if they don't have guns just use other weapons. 3) The UK government is becoming more controling. Recent legislative activity in the UK includes having government employees busting into people's homes to take items equal in value to any fines (such as parking tickets) owed to the government. Gun bans increase crime by making working conditions safe for criminals. Allowing people to carry guns decreases crime by making working conditions unsafe for criminals. In the same part of the country there was another school shooting prior to this one, except in that case students went and got their guns from their cars and ended it at 3 dead. Relying on the police to do something hours later is folly and bans will never keep the guns out of the hands of someone bent on doing something. I suppose one could make the case that if only a couple of the students in those classrooms were packing heat (legally registered to carry a concealed weapon), the outcome would likely have been quite different. The fight would certainly have been more fair! Certainly would have been. On the other hand do you really want a bunch of 19 year old students, whooping it up in the local univ bars and carrying all sorts of heavy weaponry when the males get into a strutting contest? Hell, you'd probably lose more people on a normal Saturday night. Check the odds. Mad psyco vs. ****ed off adolescent. John Kane, Kingston ON Canada |
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Should Cyclists Pack Guns?
On Apr 19, 12:03 pm, wrote:
On 19 Apr 2007 08:34:20 -0700, donquijote1954 wrote: Hey, we get screamed at, doored at, spitted upon, pushed around and even killed, isn't it time we enjoy the same benefits as other Americans? When is a cyclist going into a rage and mow down all those careless SUV drivers who make us feel worthless? Imagine this scenario: You get hit and as you roll down the pavement you draw and... I guess we cyclists are too pacific for that (or just that we aren't Republicans), but in light of all that violence out there, shouldn't we rethink our strategy (everyone to himself) and get together to launch a good nonviolent campaign? Here's a good identifying T-shirt... http://www.cafepress.com/burncalories Still Bush defends the right to bear arms Still, it's the Constitution that affirms ( not 'gives' ) that RIGHT, and he abides by the Constitution. EVEN as President George Bush told the nation he was praying for the victims, and that the killings in a place of learning would affect "every American classroom and community", a White House official said Mr Bush continued to believe in the "right to bear arms". Excellent ! He supports the Constitution and fundamental rights now matter HOW much the left-wing nutters would like to ignore those things in their never ending drive to engineer a society more to their own liking ! Of course, you do realise that most people (other than USA citizens) view your Constitution as an amusing anachronism? John Kane, Kingston ON Canada -- Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available onlinehttp://pmilligan.net/palm/ |
#64
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Should Cyclists Pack Guns?
"Wayne Pein" wrote:
.... bicyclists don't pay registration fees or need licenses because they do little damage to other people, the roads, or the environment. Oh really? So how come you don't pay for your special little piece of tarmac? Should it be free at the exclusion of vehicular traffic? Why should vehicular taxes pay for your free asphalt that impedes their travel? Many bicyclists don't want "exclusive lanes." We're usually OK with generously sharing a part of OUR standard lane with faster motorists. So you have no problem riding in the middle of the road with traffic? So we don't need bicycle lanes then. Give them back to those who did pay for them and could use them. I hope by "generously sharing" you weren't referring to bicyclists who ride side-by-side and take up the entire rural byways. Bicycle lanes reduce bicyclists' space, get filled with debris, and are first a benefit to motorists for easier passing, and secondly a benefit to some bicyclists who are fearful of overtaking traffic. I don't have difficulty dealing with bicyclists when I drive my car or motorcycle. But apparently inept drivers do. Are you inept? Sorry, but you seem more inept at understanding your selfish demands on road usage and encroach into the lanes of those who do pay for their use. As it is, you pay nothing for something that costs a lot to maintain and build. I agree that the debris problem comes from their lack of usage - which could be put to better use for traffic flow and parking. If you want it clean, why not pay for it? It shouldn't be paid out of the pockets of those who don't or cannot use a bicycle. I wouldn't have a problem with bicycles paying a license fee in states where they wish to have exclusive lanes or paved trails. Might even serve to help locate lost or stolen bikes as well. Would you be opposed to paying a $100 year for a license/sticker like dirt bikers who don't use the tarmac? Dirt bikers pay a Green Sticker fee to ride off highways. No reason a bicyclist should be immune from paying for something that cost more money to maintain and build than a dirt biker's Green Sticker tax funds pay to maintain. Mountain bikers do trail damage in forests as do dirt bikers and want they want the same or more privileges of doing or using it for *free.* B~ |
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Should Cyclists Pack Guns?
In article . com,
"Bill H." wrote: On Apr 19, 9:03 am, wrote: On 19 Apr 2007 08:34:20 -0700, donquijote1954 Excellent ! He supports the Constitution and fundamental rights... Just not civil liberties. Question: Do you support the right for women to vote? The founding fathers didn't. But we changed THAT to our liking, didn't we? Interestingly, it didn't cause civilization to fall, as many predicted it would. (News for them: In many frontier states, where women did an awful lot of work just to stay alive, they had the vote in state and local elections long before it became an issue nationwide.) -- Timberwoof me at timberwoof dot com http://www.timberwoof.com Level 1 Linux technical support: Read The Fscking Manual! Level 2 Linux technical support: Write The Fscking Code Yourself! |
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Should Cyclists Pack Guns?
"John Kane" wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 19, 12:03 pm, wrote: On 19 Apr 2007 08:34:20 -0700, donquijote1954 Of course, you do realise that most people (other than USA citizens) view your Constitution as an amusing anachronism? John Kane, Kingston ON Canada -- Why have so many countries copied the US Constitution in some form or another in the past 200 years. |
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Should Cyclists Pack Guns?
donquijote1954 wrote:
On Apr 19, 1:55 pm, Olebiker wrote: On Apr 19, 12:52 pm, (Brent P) wrote: 1) They do. 2) Crime is up, as citizens cannot defend themselves. The criminals if they don't have guns just use other weapons. 3) The UK government is becoming more controling. Recent legislative activity in the UK includes having government employees busting into people's homes to take items equal in value to any fines (such as parking tickets) owed to the government. I rather appreciate a comment often attributed to Benjamin Franklin: "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security" I guess we should disband HOMELAND SECURITY then. Yep |
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we are #1in gun violence
wrote:
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 23:08:32 GMT, Outback Jon wrote: Besides, anyone else remember the stories of how difficult it was to buy a loaf of bread in the old Soviet Union? I heard it was pretty easy, as long as you didn't mind standing in line for 4 days for 1/4 loaf of week old bread, and your sister was sleeping with the local Commisar :-) Hehe - 4 day waiting period for bread. Guess it cut down on the crime committed with said bread... -- "Outback" Jon - KC2BNE AMD Opteron 146 ) and 6.1 GHz of other AMD power... http://folding.stanford.edu - got folding? Team 48435 2006 ZG1000A Concours "Blueline" COG# 7385 CDA# 0157 1980 CB750F SuperSport "CoolerKing" |
#69
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Should Cyclists Pack Guns?
On Apr 19, 10:15 pm, "B. Peg" wrote:
"Wayne Pein" wrote: .... bicyclists don't pay registration fees or need licenses because they do little damage to other people, the roads, or the environment. Oh really? So how come you don't pay for your special little piece of tarmac? Actually, I do. I pay taxes and fees for my cars and motorcycle, plus other taxes that end up used for construction and maintenance of roads. When I ride my bicycle, I'm on roads I helped pay for. And I'm causing far less damage and expense than I do when I'm using my other vehicles. Should it be free at the exclusion of vehicular traffic? In my state, bikes _are_ vehicular traffic. They're defined that way in state law. But no, I don't care to exclude motor vehicle traffic (assuming that's what you mean). I'm competent at sharing the road, and most drivers are. Some yahoos in cars are not, but you can't prevent a bell curve from having a bottom tail. Why should vehicular taxes pay for your free asphalt that impedes their travel? 'Taint free. I help pay for it. And if my presence impedes your travel, it's likely because you're not as competent at driving as one would hope. But again, there's that bell curve... Many bicyclists don't want "exclusive lanes." We're usually OK with generously sharing a part of OUR standard lane with faster motorists. So you have no problem riding in the middle of the road with traffic? I certainly don't. Like Wayne, I'm no fan of bike lanes. So we don't need bicycle lanes then. Many, many cyclists are of that opinion. Give them back to those who did pay for them and could use them. You're misinformed about the issue of paying for them, but I'm willing to give them up. I hope by "generously sharing" you weren't referring to bicyclists who ride side-by-side and take up the entire rural byways. In actual fact, that is generally legal. Read the state laws, or the Uniform Vehicle Code. Most states specifically permit two-abreast riding. And it is sometimes necessary for a cyclist to take a lane, for reasons many motorists don't comprehend. One difficulty cyclists have is that there are too many people who think they know all about how it should be done, but who actually are - well, the bottom of yet another bell curve. Cyclists you think of as rude may simply be careful, and reacting to situations you're not even dimly aware of. Of course, it _is_ possible some cyclists are just rude. But motorists are hardly innocent of that! Sorry, but you seem more inept at understanding your selfish demands on road usage and encroach into the lanes of those who do pay for their use. As it is, you pay nothing for something that costs a lot to maintain and build. Sorry, but you seem to be inept at understanding the relevant laws, and the reasons cyclist sometimes must be in your precious way, as well as the economics of road and traffic expense. I agree that the debris problem comes from their lack of usage - which could be put to better use for traffic flow and parking. If you want it clean, why not pay for it? It shouldn't be paid out of the pockets of those who don't or cannot use a bicycle. If you're talking about debris in bike lanes, I don't want to clean them, because I don't want bike lanes at all, at least in any situation I've encountered. Take that issue up with a bike lane fan. I wouldn't have a problem with bicycles paying a license fee in states where they wish to have exclusive lanes or paved trails. Might even serve to help locate lost or stolen bikes as well. Would you be opposed to paying a $100 year for a license/sticker like dirt bikers who don't use the tarmac? Hell yes. It would be like paying a $100 fee for a walking license. Cyclists cause zero road damage. They require zero police enforcement expense. They don't generate the need for expensive infrastructure like freeways, heavy-duty bridges, or even traffic lights. They generate zero pollution, zero health problems. They cause nearly zero injuries to any other road user. If you accurately figured the true costs of your motoring, you'd probably find you're paying a tiny fraction of it. Non-drivers are subsidizing you. - Frank Krygowski |
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we are #1in gun violence
On 19 Apr 2007 18:51:46 -0700, John Kane wrote:
On Apr 19, 7:45 pm, Larry Bud wrote: "The U.S. is not the only country in which random acts of gun violence have erupted in seemingly everyday circumstances to destroy lives, families and communities," said Britain's Guardian newspaper. "But the U.S. is one of the few countries that seems collectively unwilling and politically incapable of doing anything serious to stop such things happening again."The slayings Monday at Virginia Tech reinforced a perception that in the U.S., it is "as easy to buy weapons as a loaf of bread," in the words of one Russian woman on a Moscow street. "Any madman can get hold of a gun," said Natalya Ivanova, a 22-year-old secretary. The murder rate outside of the inner cities in the US is very close to the murder rate in Britain, and the inner cities are usually the areas with the most constrictive gun laws. ^ restrictive ? Good. Quarantine the inner cities , have custom checks and body searches on everyone entering or leaving the inner cities and get back to us. The arguement is idiotic. If I can buy a gun in Virginia or Maryland and take the Metro back to DC. then the law is useless. Predictably, you miss the point. The point is, the vast majority of law-abiding people in this country should not have their rights taken away in some vain attempt to control the behavior of the monkeys in our ghettos. By definition, only the criminals in DC have guns. Where / how they got them is not the issue. The issue is that law-abiding peole have been defacto unilaterally disarmed. Thus, the little gang-bangers and other deviants have free reign, knowing that no law-abiding person has the ability to shoot back, which makes them safer targets. John Kane, Kingston ON Canada -- Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/ |
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