What American Cities are Missing: Bikes by the Thousands

On Jun 1, 12:12 am, "Amy Blankenship"
wrote:
"Pat" wrote in message

ups.com...





On May 31, 5:10 pm, "Amy Blankenship"
wrote:
"Dane Buson" wrote in message

...

In rec.bicycles.misc Amy Blankenship

wrote:
"Dane Buson" wrote in message
In rec.bicycles.misc Bolwerk wrote:

It'd be great, but it's not really practical, sadly. The worst part
is
that the incompetents tend to live in places most dependent on the
automobile.

In every other 1st world nation it is much much more expensive and
difficult to get a license. If someone can't drive a vehicle safely,
they shouldn't be driving. I have very little sympathy for someone
being dependent on an automobile and not driving it responsibly.

In every other first world nation, it is feasible to live without
owning
a
car.

How much of that is cause and how much of that is effect? I rather
think that if people find it harder to have a license, we'll see more
people arranging their lives to live without cars.

I doubt it. We'd have to start changing the way we build things. I
would
have to plant a much bigger garden and be way more serious about it than
I
am if I wanted to survive without a car. Many people I know would
probably
starve if they did not have one.

Don't sweat it. All of the anti-car and ride-a-bike people live in
cities where it might be feasible to like without a car. They are
very ego-centric and forget that people live in rural areas. Live
without a car? Not likely. It's 20 miles to the nearest Walmart.
Oops, did I say Walmart. Sorry. Here, we have two small grocery
stores that are on the Reservation, but no clothing stores or anything
like that. Plus no public transporation except 1 inter-city bus per
day and the Nation's bus service for the Elders. Someday they'll
recognize that people still live in the boonies.

There are plenty of urban and suburban areas where it is also not safe to
ride a bike.-

Exactly. Where is feasible is dangerous, and where is unfeasable, well
it's just unfeasable. You are F*** either way.l

On Jun 1, 1:53 am, wrote:
In article .net,
says...

Pedicabs are being discouraged and banned because those who do that kind
of work basically wear themselves out in about 5 years.

Not true of any of the pedicab operators I've known, but for the sake of
argument, we can pretend they're all statistical outliers.

It is highly
abusive.

It's easier on the body than drywall installation, ditch digging, or
meat packing, judging by disability rates.

It's regrettable that our friend George still sees pedicabs as
something backward. Something fit for Roman times perhaps...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/70626467@N00/249437991/

On Jun 1, 9:21 am, "george conklin" wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message

. net...





Clark F Morris wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2007 13:58:13 -0500, "Amy Blankenship"
wrote:

"Dane Buson" wrote in message
...
In rec.bicycles.misc Bolwerk wrote:
Dane Buson wrote:

Personally, I'd like it if it required a little more than fogging a
mirror and $25 to obtain and keep a license.

I think if most drivers ponder it for a moment, they might agree with
me. Wouldn't it be nice if the least capable of the drivers simply
weren't on the road?
It'd be great, but it's not really practical, sadly. The worst part
is
that the incompetents tend to live in places most dependent on the
automobile.
In every other 1st world nation it is much much more expensive and
difficult to get a license. If someone can't drive a vehicle safely,
they shouldn't be driving. I have very little sympathy for someone
being dependent on an automobile and not driving it responsibly.
In every other first world nation, it is feasible to live without owning
a car.
Probably not in the more remote rural areas and probably not in new
sprawled suburban areas.

I hate the cross posting but agree on the nature of rural living. My 2 LBS
even are over 6 miles through hairy traffic and I moved to a small town to
get away from the traffic. As for shopping, it can't be done on a bike
unless the items are very small and local. This is due to the American way
of sprawl, and I can't fix it by becoming a target.

Cities have always "sprawled" Even Queen Elizabeth I was against London
growing. The term itself shows a strong anti-urban bias.-

Not nearly on the scale America has sprawled. Our sprawl necessitates
the automobile, or better yet, the SUV. The American dream...

http://www.civicdesigncenter.org/images/Suburbia.jpg

I hope the wake up time is coming soon.

On Jun 1, 11:32 am, Pat wrote:
On Jun 1, 8:41 am, Bill wrote:





Clark F Morris wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2007 13:58:13 -0500, "Amy Blankenship"
wrote:

"Dane Buson" wrote in message
...
In rec.bicycles.misc Bolwerk wrote:
Dane Buson wrote:

Personally, I'd like it if it required a little more than fogging a
mirror and $25 to obtain and keep a license.

I think if most drivers ponder it for a moment, they might agree with
me. Wouldn't it be nice if the least capable of the drivers simply
weren't on the road?
It'd be great, but it's not really practical, sadly. The worst part is
that the incompetents tend to live in places most dependent on the
automobile.
In every other 1st world nation it is much much more expensive and
difficult to get a license. If someone can't drive a vehicle safely,
they shouldn't be driving. I have very little sympathy for someone
being dependent on an automobile and not driving it responsibly.
In every other first world nation, it is feasible to live without owning a
car.
Probably not in the more remote rural areas and probably not in new
sprawled suburban areas.

I hate the cross posting but agree on the nature of rural living. My 2
LBS even are over 6 miles through hairy traffic and I moved to a small
town to get away from the traffic. As for shopping, it can't be done on
a bike unless the items are very small and local. This is due to the
American way of sprawl, and I can't fix it by becoming a target. The
bridges I have to cross have to be done one the sidewalk on one (Freeway
and 65 MPH) and the other is not big enough to haul even a small bicycle
trailer. When I need to buy a new A/C unit or refrigerator (big
appliance) good luck with a bike. Home improvement supplies are another
big item. Electronics for my computer involves a 45 mile trip each way
to Sacramento or pay twice as much for a very limited selection.
We don't all live in big cities and don't want to be forced into it.
Some of us actually have to go to business meetings and those are beyond
bicycle range. The other factor is how are the suits going to take
someone serious when they show up on a bicycle? I like to ride but in my
business I have to put on a professional face. That's the way life works
unless you are a city office drone.
Sorry, but a reality check is needed by some of the bike fanatics.
I try to drive my most economical car (35 MPG) on these trips but won't
spend more than it is worth to buy a hybrid (yet, at least).
Bill (realistic) Baka

One weekend next month I have to go about 30 miles north west of here
to photograph a wedding. The next day I need to leave first thing to
drive about 200 miles to the east to get the kids to a lacrosse game.
After the game, I'll probably keep going another 150 miles to go to my
mother's house for a few days.

That ain't going to happen on a bicycle. I won't even happen on my
motorcycle.-

Most people do drive under 5 miles, and that can happen on a bike.

george conklin wrote:
"Bolwerk" wrote in message
...
George Conklin wrote:
"Bolwerk" wrote in message
...
Amy Blankenship wrote:
"George Conklin" wrote in message
link.net...
Pushing the labor laws back to those of the third world is not a
viable
goal. Such work is abusive, and if you pull the pedicab yourself,
then
you
are abusing yourself.
I guess any work that involves physical exertion is "abusive." Like,
say, construction, carpentry...um, farming?

George believes that everyone in the US should be free...
to do things George approves of.
I'm starting to wonder if George knows what George approves of.
Pushing third world abuses into the USA is no victory for anyone but this
fool.
You have a funny notion of what "third world abuse" is. I would think it
amounts more to something like working your fingers raw in a sweat shop
for 17 hours a day, seven days a week.

I don't know for sure, but if I was to venture a guess, I'd say pedicab
operation is probably better pay than burger flipping, and healthier.

Except it is not healthy. It is abusive of the body. It wears out the
body in about 5 years. That is why pedicabs are being banned by those who
know what is going on in nations where they have them.

Today, George made up a new reason to hate pedicabs: they wear out the
body! Now, there doesn't appear to be any evidence to support that, but
you know, everything George says is true!

Like, yeah, I'm sure they're much worse for the body (and other bodies
around them) than the pollutants that come out of your exhaust pipe.

Oh, wait, is George advocating banning cars now?

"Dane Buson" wrote in message
...
In rec.bicycles.misc Amy Blankenship
wrote:
"Dane Buson" wrote in message
...
In rec.bicycles.misc Amy Blankenship
wrote:
"Dane Buson" wrote in message
In rec.bicycles.misc Bolwerk wrote:

It'd be great, but it's not really practical, sadly. The worst part
is
that the incompetents tend to live in places most dependent on the
automobile.

In every other 1st world nation it is much much more expensive and
difficult to get a license. If someone can't drive a vehicle safely,
they
shouldn't be driving. I have very little sympathy for someone being
dependent on an automobile and not driving it responsibly.

In every other first world nation, it is feasible to live without
owning a
car.

How much of that is cause and how much of that is effect? I rather
think
that if people find it harder to have a license, we'll see more people
arranging their lives to live without cars.

I doubt it. We'd have to start changing the way we build things. I
would
have to plant a much bigger garden and be way more serious about it than
I am
if I wanted to survive without a car. Many people I know would probably
starve if they did not have one.

How did we go from "Let's get rid of the worst drivers and make it a
*little* more difficult to get a license" to "zOMG people are going to
STARVE to death!1!!one!" ? Would that be a Red Herring or a Strawman?

I didn't say people are going to starve. But there would be little
political support for making it more difficult to get a driver's license,
because people know that it simply isn't practical in most places not to be
able to drive. Therefore, making getting a license harder amounts to cruel
and unusual punishment for people who have not done anything wrong--their
only crime is that they have not gotten their license yet. Which is
precisely why people are not going to starve, unless something goes wrong
with our ability to distribute fuel or the highway system.

-Amy

"Bill" wrote in message
. net...
Pat wrote:
On Jun 1, 8:41 am, Bill wrote:
I hate the cross posting but agree on the nature of rural living. My 2
LBS even are over 6 miles through hairy traffic and I moved to a small
town to get away from the traffic. As for shopping, it can't be done on
a bike unless the items are very small and local. This is due to the
American way of sprawl, and I can't fix it by becoming a target. The
bridges I have to cross have to be done one the sidewalk on one (Freeway
and 65 MPH) and the other is not big enough to haul even a small bicycle
trailer. When I need to buy a new A/C unit or refrigerator (big
appliance) good luck with a bike. Home improvement supplies are another
big item. Electronics for my computer involves a 45 mile trip each way
to Sacramento or pay twice as much for a very limited selection.
We don't all live in big cities and don't want to be forced into it.
Some of us actually have to go to business meetings and those are beyond
bicycle range. The other factor is how are the suits going to take
someone serious when they show up on a bicycle? I like to ride but in my
business I have to put on a professional face. That's the way life works
unless you are a city office drone.
Sorry, but a reality check is needed by some of the bike fanatics.
I try to drive my most economical car (35 MPG) on these trips but won't
spend more than it is worth to buy a hybrid (yet, at least).
Bill (realistic) Baka


One weekend next month I have to go about 30 miles north west of here
to photograph a wedding. The next day I need to leave first thing to
drive about 200 miles to the east to get the kids to a lacrosse game.
After the game, I'll probably keep going another 150 miles to go to my
mother's house for a few days.

That ain't going to happen on a bicycle. I won't even happen on my
motorcycle.


Proving that any sane person with a family needs a car at least some of
the time.

Because we fail to arrange our space in such a way that it can be avoided.

On Jun 1, 2:05 pm, donquijote1954 wrote:
On May 31, 11:27 pm, "Joe the Aroma" wrote:

"Amy Blankenship" wrote in message

news:2YE7i.9346$dy1.323@bigfe9...

In every other first world nation, it is feasible to live without owning a
car.

It's feasible here too, it just makes you uncool. Personally, I love my car.

Uncool and unsustainable, if you have to go out of the main routes.
It's OK though for when you retire and you have all the time in the
world.

Oh it's unsustainable is it? Well, that would mean it cannot be
sustained (ala the old economist quote). When that occurs I will give
it up.

"Clark F Morris" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 13:40:06 -0500, "Amy Blankenship"
wrote:


"Bill" wrote in message
y.net...
Pat wrote:
On Jun 1, 8:41 am, Bill wrote:
I hate the cross posting but agree on the nature of rural living. My 2
LBS even are over 6 miles through hairy traffic and I moved to a small
town to get away from the traffic. As for shopping, it can't be done
on
a bike unless the items are very small and local. This is due to the
American way of sprawl, and I can't fix it by becoming a target. The
bridges I have to cross have to be done one the sidewalk on one
(Freeway
and 65 MPH) and the other is not big enough to haul even a small
bicycle
trailer. When I need to buy a new A/C unit or refrigerator (big
appliance) good luck with a bike. Home improvement supplies are
another
big item. Electronics for my computer involves a 45 mile trip each way
to Sacramento or pay twice as much for a very limited selection.
We don't all live in big cities and don't want to be forced into it.
Some of us actually have to go to business meetings and those are
beyond
bicycle range. The other factor is how are the suits going to take
someone serious when they show up on a bicycle? I like to ride but in
my
business I have to put on a professional face. That's the way life
works
unless you are a city office drone.
Sorry, but a reality check is needed by some of the bike fanatics.
I try to drive my most economical car (35 MPG) on these trips but
won't
spend more than it is worth to buy a hybrid (yet, at least).
Bill (realistic) Baka


One weekend next month I have to go about 30 miles north west of here
to photograph a wedding. The next day I need to leave first thing to
drive about 200 miles to the east to get the kids to a lacrosse game.
After the game, I'll probably keep going another 150 miles to go to my
mother's house for a few days.

That ain't going to happen on a bicycle. I won't even happen on my
motorcycle.


Proving that any sane person with a family needs a car at least some of
the time.

Because we fail to arrange our space in such a way that it can be avoided.

Given where Pat says he lives (and in fact where I live in rural Nova
Scotia), it is hard to do without a car. It would still be awkward
and limiting if I lived in the nearest town where I would be on the
every other hour transit line and have one bus a day to Halifax. I
would assume that this is true of most rural areas in North America
and Europe.

But even in relatively urban areas we fail to arrange our space where living
without a car would be feasible (in most cases...there are some exceptions).

On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 13:40:06 -0500, "Amy Blankenship"
wrote:


"Bill" wrote in message
.net...
Pat wrote:
On Jun 1, 8:41 am, Bill wrote:
I hate the cross posting but agree on the nature of rural living. My 2
LBS even are over 6 miles through hairy traffic and I moved to a small
town to get away from the traffic. As for shopping, it can't be done on
a bike unless the items are very small and local. This is due to the
American way of sprawl, and I can't fix it by becoming a target. The
bridges I have to cross have to be done one the sidewalk on one (Freeway
and 65 MPH) and the other is not big enough to haul even a small bicycle
trailer. When I need to buy a new A/C unit or refrigerator (big
appliance) good luck with a bike. Home improvement supplies are another
big item. Electronics for my computer involves a 45 mile trip each way
to Sacramento or pay twice as much for a very limited selection.
We don't all live in big cities and don't want to be forced into it.
Some of us actually have to go to business meetings and those are beyond
bicycle range. The other factor is how are the suits going to take
someone serious when they show up on a bicycle? I like to ride but in my
business I have to put on a professional face. That's the way life works
unless you are a city office drone.
Sorry, but a reality check is needed by some of the bike fanatics.
I try to drive my most economical car (35 MPG) on these trips but won't
spend more than it is worth to buy a hybrid (yet, at least).
Bill (realistic) Baka


One weekend next month I have to go about 30 miles north west of here
to photograph a wedding. The next day I need to leave first thing to
drive about 200 miles to the east to get the kids to a lacrosse game.
After the game, I'll probably keep going another 150 miles to go to my
mother's house for a few days.

That ain't going to happen on a bicycle. I won't even happen on my
motorcycle.


Proving that any sane person with a family needs a car at least some of
the time.

Because we fail to arrange our space in such a way that it can be avoided.

Given where Pat says he lives (and in fact where I live in rural Nova
Scotia), it is hard to do without a car. It would still be awkward
and limiting if I lived in the nearest town where I would be on the
every other hour transit line and have one bus a day to Halifax. I
would assume that this is true of most rural areas in North America
and Europe.