Can you make it to the market on a bike?

"Zoot Katz" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:01:11 +0000 (UTC),

The model American puts in 1,600 hours to get 7,500 miles:
less than five miles an hour."

The Census says the average comute in th US is 12.1 miles and takes 22.5
minutes for an average speed of 32,3 MPH. Do you want to attempt
occasionally to tell truth?

http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~pgordon/pdf/commuting.pdf
(page 4)

In rec.bicycles.misc Jack May wrote:
"Peter Clinch" wrote in message
Jack May wrote:

The goal of most people is to minimize time. They do not want to make
multiple trips to bring back a small amount of food or supplies. Makes
perfect sense.

Which is why I use a bigger bike. I've carried a two seater sofa on my
freight bike with no great trouble, and it easily fits a trolley load of
groceries. Doesn't take significantly longer, and any degree which it is
longer is easily repaid by me being fitter and healthier and not spending
so much on the car, so I lose less time elsewhere.

If your time is not very valuable, a bike makes sense.

There's more to time than the immediate short term trip. But even if that
is all there is to it then a bike will often be quicker. Bikes routinely
work quicker than cars in congested urban settings: if that weren't the
case, cycle couriers wouldn't exist.

But very few of us live in a congested urban area.

I don't know about that assertion. More people live in cities than in
rural areas, and the proportion is still shifting towards cities.

Surely someone must live in these huge bustling metropolises. Or are
they perhaps populated by ghosts?

If we ride the bike to the store, there is usually no place to lock it up
making it vulnerable to being stolen and making it a very expensive trip.

I have trouble believing there are no sign posts, newspaper boxes, light
poles, telephone poles, pipes, or anything else you can lock to
everywhere you go. I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm simply saying
that I've never been somewhere I couldn't lock up if I was willing to
walk one hundred foot.

--
Dane Buson -
I don't know everything, but I know a Matrix who does

"Jack May" wrote in message
news

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

"archierob" wrote in message
...
Well done!

One only has to read Bill Bryson's book 'Notes from a Big Country' to
realise just how pervasive the automobile is in America. Trying to get
anywhere other than by car is difficult - even crossing over the road
from his hotel to a diner. The one anecdote that made me howl with
laughter was when he returned to the US for a while and invited his
neighbours to dinner -they came by car! They drove down their drive,
turned left and then drove up his drive.

The thing that amazes me the most is that in small town America everyone
drives everywhere, even if it is only a few blocks. No wonder we are all
turning into fat slobs.

I will NEVER drive my car in town. I use it strictly for going to other
towns in the vicinity. You can go anywhere in this town of Worthington,
Minnesota (12,000 pop.) in 15 minutes by bicycle at the most. Why the
hell would anyone except an idiot want to drive these very small
distances. And yet, EVERYONE does!

The goal of most people is to minimize time. They do not want to make
multiple trips to bring back a small amount of food or supplies. Makes
perfect sense.

I use an upright trike with a big basket in the rear to carry things,
including as many groceries as I want.

If your time is not very valuable, a bike makes sense.

I am not into rushing about like a mad fool like most Americans. However, I
still consider my time valuable, even if I am only using it to contemplate
my navel.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Jack May" wrote in message
. ..

There's more to time than the immediate short term trip. But even if
that is all there is to it then a bike will often be quicker. Bikes
routinely work quicker than cars in congested urban settings: if that
weren't the case, cycle couriers wouldn't exist.

But very few of us live in a congested urban area.

If we ride the bike to the store, there is usually no place to lock it up
making it vulnerable to being stolen and making it a very expensive trip.

Having no place to lock it up is normally merely a failure to apply
imagination. I can nearly always find such a place.

FWIW we don't live in a congested urban area, yet we use bikes for most
shopping. Things like being able to bring the shopping into the house
without having the tedium of car-unloading trips make the bike more
convenient, any time benefit the car may have for the journey is miniscule
(of the order of 5 minutes), and avoiding the use of the car for trips that
short means it actually lasts rather than wearing out.

cheers,
clive

"Jeff Grippe" wrote in message
...

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

Why the hell would anyone except an idiot want to drive these very small
distances?

Because I will never share a road again with cars in this country. I
believe that even in Worthington, it isn't safe It may be an exceptionally
low number of people that are involved in bike/car accidents but trust me,
You don't want to be the person on the bike.

Jeff, you are living in a very intense motor vehicle environment. The entire
country is not like White Plains, New York.

Quiet country roads can be quite safe except for the occasional drunken
driver. Small town streets can also be quite safe provided you stay out of
lanes which motor vehicles are using. I always ride pretty far to the right
near the curb so that motor vehicles can easily go around me. The main thing
is never to impede the flow of motor vehicle traffic. All that does is ****
off drivers and make them want to kill you.

But you are not far from wrong. Essentially, it is NEVER 100% safe to be on
the road with motor vehicles. That is why I am such a proponent of bike
paths. Why there are not more of them is one of the eternal mysteries of
life.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Jack May" wrote in message
. ..

"Zoot Katz" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:01:11 +0000 (UTC),

The model American puts in 1,600 hours to get 7,500 miles:
less than five miles an hour."

The Census says the average comute in th US is 12.1 miles and takes 22.5
minutes for an average speed of 32,3 MPH. Do you want to attempt
occasionally to tell truth?

Anyone who can't do a 12 mile commute on a bicycle should get himself to the
undertaker and arrange with the monument works for a headstone. Of course, I
am assuming bikeable streets and roads. The fact is that 12 miles is
nothing! Even a wimp like me could do it (except in the winter).

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

In rec.bicycles.misc Jack May wrote:

The Census says the average comute in th US is 12.1 miles and takes 22.5
minutes for an average speed of 32,3 MPH. Do you want to attempt
occasionally to tell truth?

This is an average figure, which means there are longer and shorter
commutes. I know a man, for instance, who used to drive 80 miles each way
to and from work, 800 miles per week, +/- 40,000 miles per year. For such
people bicycling does not make sense. Moving closer to the office (as he
eventually did) does.
Shorter commutes, particularly those made in urban areas and at rush
hours, are on the other side of the curve. A couple of months back I was
in a hurry to get to another wedding and took what I thought would be a
shorter, quicker route. I ended up taking thirty minutes to cover the
last mile of the trip. I literally could have gotten to my destination
faster by walking, and I found myself wishing with all my heart for my
bike, even though I don't like to show up at weddings bathed in sweat.
Here's another car-related figure. The American Automobile Association
(they of the famous AAA bumper stickers) says that the average car costs
its owner $650 per month by the time all costs are factored in. The
Census figure takes only driving time into account. This one counts
money, from which we can draw conclusions about the time spent earning
that money. Add that into the commuter's road time and then figure out
his average MPH, and you're down there where a bike becomes a smart
alternative.


Bill

__o | Harry: How could a troll get in?
_`\(,_ | Ron: Not on its own. Trolls are really stupid.
(_)/ (_) |

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 13:39:44 -0700, breeze "Jack May"
missed it when he wrote:

The model American puts in 1,600 hours to get 7,500 miles:
less than five miles an hour."

The Census says the average comute in th US is 12.1 miles and takes 22.5
minutes for an average speed of 32,3 MPH. Do you want to attempt
occasionally to tell truth?

Car addicts never do the full accounting. 1600 hours includes time
spent to earn the money to pay for your driving habit. It didn't
include the time you spend in hospitals, courts and garages.

Car addicts don't like to figure in the externalities connected with
their transportation choice. Those externalities end up costing
non-drivers $2.70 for every dollar the driver spends on their car.

Your census figures only demonstrate that the average commuter's
destination is well within bicycling range.

Consider too that there are fewer variables to delay a bicycle so
that commuters can be pretty sure that they're going to arrive on
time regardless of traffic situations.
--
zk

On Jul 24, 9:23 am, "Jack May" wrote:

The goal of most people is to minimize time. They do not want to make
multiple trips to bring back a small amount of food or supplies. Makes
perfect sense.

If your time is not very valuable, a bike makes sense.

I live downtown, and can't realistically drive to work - it would cost
me about $150 a week to park at my office. So if I take transit, I'd
have to come home, get a vehicle, hen go shopping.

With the bike, I shop on my way home. No extra trips required, really.
I usually avoid the mega stores, as you waste too much time standing
in line. When I do use the supermarket, I either bring my bike buckets
or take a free cardboard box (which I recycle later.) With the buckets
and the top of the rack, my bike has about the same grocery capacity
as a Suzuki Swift (my last car.)

It just takes some thought.

"Jack May" writes:

The goal of most people is to minimize time. They do not want to make
multiple trips to bring back a small amount of food or supplies. Makes
perfect sense.

Multiple trips (e.g., on separate days) to "bring back a small amount of
food" means the food you eat is fresher. It's a "quality of life" thing.
Plus, you get some exercise, and most people don't get enough.

You don't really "minimize time" by increasing your chance of spending
weeks in intensive care recovering from a heart attack caused by a poor
diet and lack of exercise.

If your time is not very valuable, a bike makes sense.

"One size fits all" thinking. :-) A bike makes perfect sense if
you end up taking the time you "save" by using a car and spending
that time on an exercise bike in your garage or basement. And for
some (e.g., in very congested areas) a bicycle is faster than a
car because on a bicyle, you only wait at a light for one cycle
of it at most.


--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB