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#81
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Does a trike put me on a collision course with traffic?
In article ,
dkahn400 writes: On Apr 3, 5:37 pm, Jens Müller wrote: What is the English translation of "Aus den Augen, aus dem Sinn"? Out of sight, out of mind. -- Dave... Thanx for that. I guessed it meant (regarding bike lanes "damned if you do; damned if you don't." cheers, Tom -- Nothing is safe from me. I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca |
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#82
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Does a trike put me on a collision course with traffic?
Jack May wrote:
Highly unlikely that everybody just wants to stay poor and just sit around as society self destructs. I would have thought so too, but just where is all the work-in-progress? For years, alternative energy has been seen as a joke (at least here in the UK). We have no real renewable prgram, at least nothing even close to coming on stream with the requisite 225 mtonne oil equivalence we use. Renewables are around 1% of UK energy, the vast majority is coal, oil and gas... when wind farms are proposed, joe public gets up in arms about the view getting spoiled. Nuclear? Not in my experience, and the legacy of sixty years ago is still to be dealt with.. People buy huge cars for no reason other than personal aggrandisement. Packaging has reached ridiculous levels. Goods no-one needs are hauled round the world for short term amusement. This is the reality of "the market" in action but everyone goes along with it without a thought. To so much as bring these things up in conversation attracts ridicule, ambivolence or occasionally hostility. The whole show is built on the assumption of continual growth, but given finite resourcing that is patently impossible and no tech wonder solution can alter that. It needs a phase change in our understanding of life to get away from conspicious consumption, but there is no market driver for such a change. Anyway enough of all this doom and gloom, I'm off to buy a new bicycle to cheer myself up :-) T |
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Does a trike put me on a collision course with traffic?
Pat wrote:
On Apr 3, 3:40 am, Tony B wrote: Pat wrote: The market will prevail. There, in one very short sentence, is the whole problem. It will not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons T Yes the market will prevail. Here's the problem. You think you (and others) have some God-given right to oil. As an aetheist I can't see anyone having a god given anything, but let's let that pass for now.. But nothing could be farther from the truth. Oil isn't commonly owned and the example cited in the link, re a commonly owned pasture is not at all similar to oil. no, it's not meant ot be just like a common (of which there are few anyway..) Oil is owned by a few major suppliers -- an oligarchy if you will -- who control the supply. Don't they just. After that, it's supply and demand. Cut back the supply and the price goes up. Thing is, the whole of modern society depends on the black stuff. Why does the world hold six billions now do you think? All the dinosaur blood keeps us efficient. When it's gone... I would guess the demand is pretty inelastic in the short term by highly elastic in the long term. those six billion will want feeding, and that's just for now - it could be nearer 10 by 2050.. If you want a farming analogy, it would be a farmer who owns a gravel pit. The farmer knows that there is a limited supply of gravel. He also knows that the price will increase in the long run. He also knows that he has kids in college and he needs to balance his lifestyle now with the ability to pay for his kids to go to college with his retirement needs. the difference is what happens to the gravel once he sells it. Unlike oil, no-one is dependant on gravel to fuel modern society. T |
#84
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Does a trike put me on a collision course with traffic?
On Apr 4, 12:05 am, Bob wrote:
On Mar 31, 12:00 pm, ComandanteBanana wrote: Having other types of bikes in my collection, I'm about to get off the beaten path and get either a ROAD TANDEM BIKE or a FANCY UPRIGHT TRIKE. Well, I like them both but the road tandem would necessarily put me on the road AMONG THE BEASTS all the time, while the trike I can use on the back streets and on a new path being built overlooking the ocean (cool). But I'd be tempted to ride it on the streets sometimes, squarely TAKING THE LANE because then I'd be more of a vehicle. What's your thought, I'd be safer in the trike than on the road tandem, or should I start planning my funerals? WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION?http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution The 2006 US Census estimated the total population at just under 300 million people. According to FARS data in that same year, 773 cyclists were killed in traffic crashes. Adding pedestrian deaths there were just 5740 non-motorist deaths from traffic crashes that year. That would seem to contradict your view that a significant percentage of motorists are homicidal maniacs intent on doing cyclists harm. Either that or the overwhelming majority of that group are *extremely incompetent* homicidal maniacs. Pedal your bike, not your silly fearmongering. Regards, Bob Hunt It ain't fearmongering; it's the reality of the jungle, which is in plain view for all to see... 'Doug - 03 April 2008 11:41 PM On the subject of bicycles, I've noticed that here in South Beach, riders can be as aggressive toward pedestrians as cars can. Psychologists would probably say its a product of the "caged rat syndrome." As a species, we've overpopulated to the extent that we're turning on each other. Good idea for a horror movie plot!' Hey Doug, I've got my own theory... The SUV intimidates the car, they both intimidate the bicycle, the bike gets on the sidewalk and it intimidates pedestrians, and pedestrians just intimidate each other... I'd dismiss the rat theory, because there are far more people crowded together in places like Holland and they still get along pretty good. Oh, the name of my theory is "The Big Fish Eats the Little Fish." Coming to a theater near you... http://atom.smasher.org/streetparty/...ittle+Fish&l4= |
#85
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Does a trike put me on a collision course with traffic?
On Apr 3, 9:38*pm, Pat wrote:
Oil is owned by a few major suppliers -- an oligarchy if you will -- who control the supply. *After that, it's supply and demand. * Does our reliance on oil make us a Banana Republic? It certainly sounds familiar: "oligarchy" and... WELCOME TO THE BANANA REPUBLIC 'The term was coined by O. Henry, an American humorist and short story writer... "Republic" in his time was often a euphemism for a dictatorship, while "banana" implied an easy reliance on basic agriculture and backwardness in the development of modern industrial technology.' And we can say the same of a republic that relies on old technologies built around oil while having a strong commander in chief that drives us into war to secure more oil. But, of course, there are many more signs of Banana Republic... http://banana-republic.net/ |
#86
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Does a trike put me on a collision course with traffic?
On Apr 4, 8:39*am, ComandanteBanana wrote:
On Apr 4, 12:05 am, Bob wrote: On Mar 31, 12:00 pm, ComandanteBanana wrote: Having other types of bikes in my collection, I'm about to get off the beaten path and get either a ROAD TANDEM BIKE or a FANCY UPRIGHT TRIKE. Well, I like them both but the road tandem would necessarily put me on the road AMONG THE BEASTS all the time, while the trike I can use on the back streets and on a new path being built overlooking the ocean (cool). But I'd be tempted to ride it on the streets sometimes, squarely TAKING THE LANE because then I'd be more of a vehicle. What's your thought, I'd be safer in the trike than on the road tandem, or should I start planning my funerals? WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION?http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution The 2006 US Census estimated the total population at just under 300 million people. According to FARS data in that same year, 773 cyclists were killed in traffic crashes. Adding pedestrian deaths there were just 5740 non-motorist deaths from traffic crashes that year. That would seem to contradict your view that a significant percentage of motorists are homicidal maniacs intent on doing cyclists harm. Either that or the overwhelming majority of that group are *extremely incompetent* homicidal maniacs. Pedal your bike, not your silly fearmongering. Regards, Bob Hunt It ain't fearmongering; it's the reality of the jungle, which is in plain view for all to see... 'Doug - 03 April 2008 11:41 PM On the subject of bicycles, I've noticed that here in South Beach, riders can be as aggressive toward pedestrians as cars can. Psychologists would probably say its a product of the "caged rat syndrome." As a species, we've overpopulated to the extent that we're turning on each other. *Good idea for a horror movie plot!' Hey Doug, I've got my own theory... The SUV intimidates the car, they both intimidate the bicycle, the bike gets on the sidewalk and it intimidates pedestrians, and pedestrians just intimidate each other... I'd dismiss the rat theory, because there are far more people crowded together in places like Holland and they still get along pretty good. Oh, the name of my theory is "The Big Fish Eats the Little Fish." Coming to a theater near you... http://atom.smasher.org/streetparty/...s&l3=the+L...- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I agree and disagree with both of you, but not for the reasons anyone would think. Mostly because I can't even comprehend the problems. Living is a semi-rural area, we have civil people. We say "hi" to each other and know our neighbors. I don't see any problems with SUV drivers. For some reason the bikers have them under the microscope but I just don't see why. Even when I go to cities (which is fairly often) I don't see the difference. So if you want to ride a bike and think there are safer areas out there, then move. What's so hard about that? Go get another house. Go get another job. If you feel unsafe biking to work, then change things. What's the big deal. I could bike anywhere in the community I live in and it wouldn't be a problem. So get your priorities in line. Meanwhile, if you feel unsafe, look within. Are you doing anything that you shouldn't be or that's unpredictable? I see more of that with people on bikes than with drivers. Drivers are a fairly predictable group. You know about what speed they are going, how wide the lane is and how wide the car is. If you are obstructing them, then get out of the way. You need to be able to keep up with traffic if you're going to be on the road. Finally, I ride a motorcycle in the summer. Bigger and faster than a bike, but still not a car. If ride like you are intimidated, you will be intimidated. If you ride like you should, then you're not intimidated. The only vehicle that really bothers me are dump trucks with uncovered loads. Hit a pea-stone at 70 some time and you feel a ting. But you plan for that because you know it's a hazzard. You wear leathers and a full-face helmut. But you don't go crying about it. You just plan for the possibility and accept that it will happen. Personally, I also get on my CB and discuss the situation with the driver and most of the time they don't realize that they have stuff flying off their trucks. Most promise to cover their loads next time. Most probably don't but some might. I don't know. But you just plan for the know hazzards and accept the unknown ones. Life's too short to be grumpy. |
#87
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Does a trike put me on a collision course with traffic?
On Apr 1, 5:57*pm, ComandanteBanana wrote:
On Apr 1, 5:37*pm, Jens Müller wrote: ComandanteBanana schrieb: Bicycle parking facilities? Well, that might be the case. Facilities for moving bicycle traffic? Here, there are much too many of them ... Nice. Most of the nation lacks those facilities. No, not nice. They are actually causing completely real deaths of people.. What is causing their deaths, the bike facilities? WE NEED BIKE LANES or 20MPH LANES --enforced by cameras. This is a fair comment that I stick to... tjspiel Was at a book store last night thumbing through the latest Bicycling magazine. I ended up buying it mostly because of their feature report called: "What you can do to fix America's traffic laws - and why you should". There was a lot of text devoted to several people that that been killed or sustained permanent, life altering injuries. They were struck by drunk drivers or in one case, a driver trying to grab something out of a bag in her back seat. All of the cyclists had been riding on a wide shoulder or in a bike lane and had been hit from behind. The article seemed to focus more on stonger penalties for people who kill or injure cyclists and not so much on new laws. There were a lot of interesting statistics. For example cities with more cyclists had a lower percentage of fatal collisions. Another thing they mentioned that is absolutely true is that in the U.S. there is little or no driver training related to being on the road with cyclists. There's also little formal training for cyclists on how to ride safely in the street. Both are sorely needed. One good idea though was implemented in Kansas. Apparently when you renew your license in that state there is a written test. A guy there was able to successfully get the state to insure that there would be at least one question related to cyclists on the test. The current version has a multiple choice question on how many feet you must leave between your car and the cyclist when passing. In Kansas, it's 4 feet. Anyway, the whole article definitely made me a little more nervous about riding with fast moving traffic. I still contend that segregated bike lanes are the way to go. You can't legislate away lapses in judgement and attention. The bikers in the group say we need bike lanes and camera enforcement and this and that. That's a HUGE investment for a relatively small group of people. That public investment could probably go for better uses. Since you guys like telling other people what they should do and how they should do it, what would happen if the rest of us -- the 99.9% who don't ride bikes -- just said "it would be cheaper and better for society if we just banned bikes from public streets because the added cost of them is just too high and even the riders report that it is way too dangerous". First the ban cell phones for drivers because they are "dangerous"; why not ban bikes because they are too dangerous? |
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Does a trike put me on a collision course with traffic?
On Apr 4, 6:20*am, Tony B wrote:
Pat wrote: On Apr 3, 3:40 am, Tony B wrote: Pat wrote: *The market will prevail. There, in one very short sentence, is the whole problem. It will not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons T Yes the market will prevail. Here's the problem. *You think you (and others) have some God-given right to oil. * As an aetheist I can't see anyone having a god given anything, but let's let that pass for now.. * But nothing could be farther from the truth. *Oil isn't commonly owned and the example cited in the link, re a commonly owned pasture is not at all similar to oil. * no, it's not meant ot be just like a common (of which there are few anyway..) Oil is owned by a few major suppliers -- an oligarchy if you will -- who control the supply. Don't they just. * *After that, it's supply and demand. *Cut back the supply and the price goes up. Thing is, the whole of modern society depends on the black stuff. Why does the world hold six billions now do you think? All the dinosaur blood keeps us efficient. When it's gone... * I would guess the demand is pretty inelastic in the short term by highly elastic in the long term. those six billion will want feeding, and that's just for now - it could be nearer 10 by 2050.. If you want a farming analogy, it would be a farmer who owns a gravel pit. *The farmer knows that there is a limited supply of gravel. *He also knows that the price will increase in the long run. *He also knows that he has kids in college and he needs to balance his lifestyle now with the ability to pay for his kids to go to college with his retirement needs. the difference is what happens to the gravel once he sells it. Unlike oil, no-one is dependant on gravel to fuel modern society. T- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - So you are proposing what? A complete nationalization (worldization) of oil? It's a commodity just like anything else. Corn is $6 a bushel and my fresh sweet corn will be more expensive this summer. So I pay more, I don't go take over the farmer's field. Just because the world depends on it, doesn't mean the world owns it. Otherwise, we'll just have to take over the middle east and enslave the residents there. I think that's called "Vote McCain" or something like that. Oil is oil. If you don't like the price, then stop using it. That's how the demand curve shifts. |
#89
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Does a trike put me on a collision course with traffic?
Pat schrieb:
The bikers in the group say we need bike lanes and camera enforcement and this and that. That's a HUGE investment for a relatively small group of people. Far more than 10% in larger cities, especially in university cities. That public investment could probably go for better uses. ACK. E.g. for motor vehicle driver instruction. Since you guys like telling other people what they should do and how they should do it, what would happen if the rest of us -- the 99.9% who don't ride bikes -- just said "it would be cheaper and better for society if we just banned bikes from public streets because the added cost of them is just too high and even the riders report that it is way too dangerous". First the ban cell phones for drivers because they are "dangerous"; why not ban bikes because they are too dangerous? Because every one has the right to use public highways. |
#90
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Does a trike put me on a collision course with traffic?
Pat wrote:
So you are proposing what? A complete nationalization (worldization) of oil? whoa there, I never even thought such a thing... anyway US.com already decides the oil business so it's kind of nationalised :-) the point I'm struggling to make is, pretty soon there will be no oil. A point that seems lost to all but an almost statistically insignificant minority. So I pay more, I don't go take over the farmer's field. or any major corn producing regions of the world.. hoho. Otherwise, we'll just have to take over the middle east and enslave the residents there. who's this "we"?? and how come you use future tense? Oil is oil. If you don't like the price, then stop using it. That's how the demand curve shifts. Stop using it. OK, so all my groceries can be delivered to the shops how? Your corn is farmed using horse? How about pesticides and fertilisers? Everybody that provides a service to my household gets here how? And the stuff they use, the plastic, everything.. take oil out of your life and see what's left. Then look forwards twenty or fifty or even a hundred years if you think it will last out that long. Then look around at what is beong done, globally, to deal with a problem that is sending telegraph, semaphore and e-mail telling us it's on it's way. Nowt, that's what's being done. Not in any significant way. There is more effort being expounded squeezing a few precious drops of oil from tar sands than is being put into real alternativs to our oil based society. The Oil Age will end eventually (and expert opinion is tilting in favour of sooner rather than later) but we do nothing. Nothing to do with politics, consumerism, religion, far right or left maniacs - just the fact that, six billion people are alive and need the concentrated power of oil to stay that way. It's going to run out. So you are proposing what? It's as though the world is in denial. T |
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