the disturbing conspiracy of the bicycling elite

This is no ordinary conspiracy like the alliens abducted Bush on 9/11.
This is the real thing, about real cyclists --or so they say-- about
real issues. I didn't invent it though. Got it from here...

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=1#post7368267

(I make my observations below)

Originally Posted by Bekologist
"There's a disturbing consipracy of 'elite' bicyclists that seek to
retard bicycling accommodations in this country. They leave bicycling
stunted by standing as obstructionists to bike specific
infrastructure, or to such limited application that communities will
continue to be designed with autos first and foremost.

sensible transportation engineers understand the public would like a
lot more than 50mph traffic and 14 foot lanes to get out and consider
bicycling in this country. The bare minimum of planning for bikes is
their stated goal, and it is very anti-bike.

Very disturbing. I got an bulk email from a 'bicycle cooridinator' in
a large Texas city faintly bragging how there'd be no new bike lanes
during his term if he had anything to do with it.

this is a club, a clique a loosely organized group of 'trained' and
elite bicyclists that stand in the way of furthering bicycle
accomodation in this country. They stunt bicycling numbers and
participation in this country.

Shame on obstructionists, this makes me sick to see 'bicyclists' so
blind to the rest of the public -

who might think bicycling shouldn't be a sporting game of
assertiveness and bluster undertaken in the midst of fast, distracted
motorists."



I always knew about this conspiracy, but I was afraid to be told that
I was into conspiracy theories like the CIA blew up the towers or
Hussein was tied up to terrorism, etc.

This one is true though. If they oppose what would bring the people to
ride bikes is because they hate the ordinary people and want to be the
only ones to ride bikes. They would feel insignificant in a place like
Holland, say.

Even the commuters are looked down upon because most of them would
favor bike lanes and other facilities. The telltale sign though is
that most wear lycra and ride big buck bikes.

They are also Republicans but are often members of the Libertarian
Party. Oh, and only use bikes on Saturdays and Sundays, always for the
hell of it, never to go the market or something. That's my
profiling.

WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote

"ComandanteBanana" wrote in message
...
This is no ordinary conspiracy like the alliens abducted Bush on
9/11.
This is the real thing, about real cyclists --or so they say--
about
real issues. I didn't invent it though. Got it from here...

The post is too long. I will wait for the Oliver Stone movie.

This is no ordinary conspiracy like the aliens abducted Bush on 9/11.
This is the real thing, about real cyclists --or so they say-- about
real issues. I didn't invent it though. Got it from here...

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=1#post7368267

(I make my observations below)

Originally Posted by Bekologist
"There's a disturbing consipracy of 'elite' bicyclists that seek to
retard bicycling accommodations in this country. They leave bicycling
stunted by standing as obstructionists to bike specific
infrastructure, or to such limited application that communities will
continue to be designed with autos first and foremost.

sensible transportation engineers understand the public would like a
lot more than 50mph traffic and 14 foot lanes to get out and consider
bicycling in this country. The bare minimum of planning for bikes is
their stated goal, and it is very anti-bike.

Very disturbing. I got an bulk email from a 'bicycle cooridinator' in
a large Texas city faintly bragging how there'd be no new bike lanes
during his term if he had anything to do with it.

this is a club, a clique a loosely organized group of 'trained' and
elite bicyclists that stand in the way of furthering bicycle
accomodation in this country. They stunt bicycling numbers and
participation in this country.

Shame on obstructionists, this makes me sick to see 'bicyclists' so
blind to the rest of the public -

who might think bicycling shouldn't be a sporting game of
assertiveness and bluster undertaken in the midst of fast, distracted
motorists."

....

I always knew about this conspiracy, but I was afraid to be told that
I was into conspiracy theories like the CIA blew up the towers or
Hussein was tied up to terrorism, etc.

This one is true though. If they oppose what would bring the people to
ride bikes is because they hate the ordinary people and want to be the
only ones to ride bikes. They would feel insignificant in a place like
Holland, say.

Even the commuters are looked down upon because most of them would
favor bike lanes and other facilities. The telltale sign though is
that most wear lycra and ride big buck bikes.

They are also Republicans but are often members of the Libertarian
Party. Oh, and only use bikes on Saturdays and Sundays, always for the
hell of it, never to go the market or something. That's my
profiling.


WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE
(where the lions conspire to control everything)
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote

On Aug 29, 5:30*pm, "ZBicyclist" wrote:


The post is too long. I will wait for the Oliver Stone movie.

This post is even longer, but it makes a lot of sense and if you can
sit 3 hours at the movies, you can read it. Or is it true that
Americans don't want to read?

(my answer follows)

Originally Posted by mandovoodoo
OK all your points are well taken. But what about the flip side...
that the whole reason for the poor paths and their implementation is
that there is a voice here in the US that keeps telling planners/
engineers that "roads are good enough," therefore that "bike highway"
will never be built... and paths and lanes are only for those that use
bikes as toys (the majority of bike owners in the US who only do
weekend/park rides)."

I'm really doubting that the planners are listening or researching all
that much. They tend to grab some design manual that's outdated and
make a token design. The roads certainly aren't good enough! That's a
much more important issue than bike paths. They aren't good enough for
motorists, let alone the truck/auto/micro-auto/moto/scooter/cycle
world we're headed into. I participated enough early on in the game
(1970s) to notice how little attention the designers actually gave
real users at that time!

I think major bike route systems can be done quite effectively through
a combined network of marked and improved existing roads and new cycle-
only areas, or cycle plus calmed cars. I'd rather see a whole county
reworked with existing roads and a few specialty connectors than a
major path of the same cost put in. That would benefit more people.

Eventually folks have to get off a bicycle highway or lane. Unless you
contemplate every road having a dedicated cycle lane along it. Here
where our larger backroads are only 20 ft wide that would be very
difficult. Many roads are 14 ft wide. That's the road - not the lane!
So where would a cycle lane go? Contemplating an entire separate
system? Not going to happen. Can't maintain the road or cycle lane
systems already in place, from what I can see.

"Therefore whether a true conspiracy exists (quick call Jack Bauer) or
whether this all is a result of a larger auto centric group think, the
results are the same... cycling will not be treated as a viable form
of transportation in this country... especially with the likes of the
VC crowd insisting that "all roads are bike lanes" even in the face of
ridiculous situations as 65MPH arterials, without even bike lanes,
connecting together major communities."

Yes, of course. Bike lanes or better yet, patrolled limited access
bicycle throughways between major points would be great. That wasn't
the original thrust here. Were a bicycle throughway suggested along,
say Kingston Pike in Knoxville I suspect support would be high. But
that's not what's generally suggested. What's generally under
discussion is something like our local Maryville MUP, which doesn't
seem to go anywhere many need to go, and which has ad hoc design
features that are horribly dangerous. This is typical in that it ends
somewhere odd. Has cute design features that do nothing but make it
interesting on a map. Has built in hazards that would be unacceptable
on a roadway. And so on. Plus it's expensive.

And it's too late. Cycling is already a viable means of transportation
in this country. It's getting more viable all the time. If you want to
enhance viability, then you've got to consider the whole road network.
Resources are limited. From here, for example, I'd like to be able to
go down to route 321 just 1 mile away, pop on my cycle highway or
dedicated and maintained cycle lane, head towards Ktown. Choose the
fast bypass or the local through Maryville. Run along Alcoa Highway
safely (think we'd need a tunnel or elevated highway!) and end up in
downtown Ktown or at the University. I'd have probably used that when
I worked in downtown. But it isn't going to happen.

The way to counter whatever elitist group you think is there is a two
pronged assault. First, work to come up with model comprehensive
bicycle friendly systems that can be implemented anywhere. Second,
involve the "elite" and win them over with your superior approach to
the integrated diverse traffic problem.

The "elite" aren't the enemy. They're usually people with all too much
exposure to paths, lanes, and the results thereof. Show them how
they'll be better able to get from point A to B without encountering
excess hazards and they'll like it.

Now, there are other threads and complaints about people using lanes
and paths on this forum. They ride too fast, they scare people, etc.
Have to consider that, too. Postulate a lane on a highway with a 25
mph speed limit and you'll have cycles moving that. On a 45 mph road
you'll have a number in the upper 20s. So you have to consider the mix
of 8 mph, 15 mph, and 25 mph cyclists. What do you propose?

And lanes can't go everywhere. What do you propose?

And they need to be paid for. What do you propose?

(I cut out some stuff here to make you happy)

....


There's a THIRD OPTION: Slow down the right hand lanes to 20 mph to
accomodate bicycles. At the same time grant fast cars a more lenient
policy to speed (say up to 40mph) and pass on the left. Anyway a good
chunk of cars today customarily do more than 40mph on a 30mph zone...
on the right hand side lane --terrorizing the bikes.

It's kind of the same as LANE DISCIPLINE, but taking account of the
very slow and the ones not so slow. Put bike signs all over the place
and speed cameras on lights. Advise law breakers to smile for the
camera.

In article ,
"ZBicyclist" writes:
"ComandanteBanana" wrote in message
...
This is no ordinary conspiracy like the alliens abducted Bush on
9/11.
This is the real thing, about real cyclists --or so they say--
about
real issues. I didn't invent it though. Got it from here...

The post is too long.

It also doesn't make any sense.

I will wait for the Oliver Stone movie.

Not me. I'm gonna listen to that
Timothy Leary's Dead song, and then
Alice Cooper's: Lost In America.
And then go to bed.

Tomorrow's another day.

Maybe I'll wait for the Irving Stone novel.

Since this is x-posted to uk.rec.cycling:
helloo to my Neeves relatives in Ticehurst/
Peacehurst Sx. Behave yourselves enough to
not get into too much trouble.

Take my advice. I'm not using it.


cheers from the Colonies,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

ComandanteBanana wrote:
This is no ordinary conspiracy like the alliens abducted Bush on 9/11.
This is the real thing, about real cyclists --or so they say-- about
real issues. I didn't invent it though. Got it from here...

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=1#post7368267

(I make my observations below)

Originally Posted by Bekologist
"There's a disturbing consipracy of 'elite' bicyclists that seek to
retard bicycling accommodations in this country. They leave bicycling
stunted by standing as obstructionists to bike specific
infrastructure, or to such limited application that communities will
continue to be designed with autos first and foremost.

sensible transportation engineers understand the public would like a
lot more than 50mph traffic and 14 foot lanes to get out and consider
bicycling in this country. The bare minimum of planning for bikes is
their stated goal, and it is very anti-bike.

Very disturbing. I got an bulk email from a 'bicycle cooridinator' in
a large Texas city faintly bragging how there'd be no new bike lanes
during his term if he had anything to do with it.

this is a club, a clique a loosely organized group of 'trained' and
elite bicyclists that stand in the way of furthering bicycle
accomodation in this country. They stunt bicycling numbers and
participation in this country.

Shame on obstructionists, this makes me sick to see 'bicyclists' so
blind to the rest of the public -

who might think bicycling shouldn't be a sporting game of
assertiveness and bluster undertaken in the midst of fast, distracted
motorists."

Why do you repost such utter garbage?

I always knew about this conspiracy, but I was afraid to be told that
I was into conspiracy theories like the CIA blew up the towers or
Hussein was tied up to terrorism, etc.

This one is true though. If they oppose what would bring the people to
ride bikes is because they hate the ordinary people and want to be the
only ones to ride bikes. They would feel insignificant in a place like
Holland, say.

Oh, Bull****.

Even the commuters are looked down upon because most of them would
favor bike lanes and other facilities. The telltale sign though is
that most wear lycra and ride big buck bikes.

More Bull****. Cycling commuters come to practice vehicular cycling,
since that is what works best. You can take your bicycle ghettos that
promote cyclists as second class road users and bugger off.

They are also Republicans but are often members of the Libertarian
Party. Oh, and only use bikes on Saturdays and Sundays, always for the
hell of it, never to go the market or something. That's my
profiling.

More utter crap from the anti-cyclist troll.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”

On Aug 30, 1:02*am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
ComandanteBanana wrote:
This is no ordinary conspiracy like the alliens abducted Bush on 9/11.
This is the real thing, about real cyclists --or so they say-- about
real issues. I didn't invent it though. Got it from here...

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=1#post7368267

(I make my observations below)

Originally Posted by Bekologist
"There's a disturbing consipracy of 'elite' bicyclists that seek to
retard bicycling accommodations in this country. They leave bicycling
stunted by standing as obstructionists to bike specific
infrastructure, or to such limited application that communities will
continue to be designed with autos first and foremost.

sensible transportation engineers understand the public would like a
lot more than 50mph traffic and 14 foot lanes to get out and consider
bicycling in this country. The bare minimum of planning for bikes is
their stated goal, and it is very anti-bike.

Very disturbing. I got an bulk email from a 'bicycle cooridinator' in
a large Texas city faintly bragging how there'd be no new bike lanes
during his term if he had anything to do with it.

this is a club, a clique a loosely organized group of 'trained' and
elite bicyclists that stand in the way of furthering bicycle
accomodation in this country. They stunt bicycling numbers and
participation in this country.

Shame on obstructionists, this makes me sick to see 'bicyclists' so
blind to the rest of the public -

who might think bicycling shouldn't be a sporting game of
assertiveness and bluster undertaken in the midst of fast, distracted
motorists."

Why do you repost such utter garbage?

I always knew about this conspiracy, but I was afraid to be told that
I was into conspiracy theories like the CIA blew up the towers or
Hussein was tied up to terrorism, etc.

This one is true though. If they oppose what would bring the people to
ride bikes is because they hate the ordinary people and want to be the
only ones to ride bikes. They would feel insignificant in a place like
Holland, say.

Oh, Bull****.

Even the commuters are looked down upon because most of them would
favor bike lanes and other facilities. The telltale sign though is
that most wear lycra and ride big buck bikes.

More Bull****. Cycling commuters come to practice vehicular cycling,
since that is what works best. You can take your bicycle ghettos that
promote cyclists as second class road users and bugger off.

They are also Republicans but are often members of the Libertarian
Party. Oh, and only use bikes on Saturdays and Sundays, always for the
hell of it, never to go the market or something. That's my
profiling. *

More utter crap from the anti-cyclist troll.

Everything they say make a lot of sense. There are cyclists standing
on the way of cyclists. I'd expect cars to be the problem, but somehow
there's a bunch of cyclists that deny bike lanes, and other ideas that
may bring millions of people onto the roads.

We've got to suggest a name of Stone's next movie:

"Who killed the bike lanes?"

KingOfTheApes wrote:
On Aug 30, 1:02 am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
ComandanteBanana wrote:
This is no ordinary conspiracy like the alliens abducted Bush on 9/11.
This is the real thing, about real cyclists --or so they say-- about
real issues. I didn't invent it though. Got it from here...
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=1#post7368267
(I make my observations below)
Originally Posted by Bekologist
"There's a disturbing consipracy of 'elite' bicyclists that seek to
retard bicycling accommodations in this country. They leave bicycling
stunted by standing as obstructionists to bike specific
infrastructure, or to such limited application that communities will
continue to be designed with autos first and foremost.
sensible transportation engineers understand the public would like a
lot more than 50mph traffic and 14 foot lanes to get out and consider
bicycling in this country. The bare minimum of planning for bikes is
their stated goal, and it is very anti-bike.
Very disturbing. I got an bulk email from a 'bicycle cooridinator' in
a large Texas city faintly bragging how there'd be no new bike lanes
during his term if he had anything to do with it.
this is a club, a clique a loosely organized group of 'trained' and
elite bicyclists that stand in the way of furthering bicycle
accomodation in this country. They stunt bicycling numbers and
participation in this country.
Shame on obstructionists, this makes me sick to see 'bicyclists' so
blind to the rest of the public -
who might think bicycling shouldn't be a sporting game of
assertiveness and bluster undertaken in the midst of fast, distracted
motorists."
Why do you repost such utter garbage?

I always knew about this conspiracy, but I was afraid to be told that
I was into conspiracy theories like the CIA blew up the towers or
Hussein was tied up to terrorism, etc.
This one is true though. If they oppose what would bring the people to
ride bikes is because they hate the ordinary people and want to be the
only ones to ride bikes. They would feel insignificant in a place like
Holland, say.
Oh, Bull****.

Even the commuters are looked down upon because most of them would
favor bike lanes and other facilities. The telltale sign though is
that most wear lycra and ride big buck bikes.
More Bull****. Cycling commuters come to practice vehicular cycling,
since that is what works best. You can take your bicycle ghettos that
promote cyclists as second class road users and bugger off.

They are also Republicans but are often members of the Libertarian
Party. Oh, and only use bikes on Saturdays and Sundays, always for the
hell of it, never to go the market or something. That's my
profiling.
More utter crap from the anti-cyclist troll.

Everything they say make a lot of sense. There are cyclists standing
on the way of cyclists. I'd expect cars to be the problem, but somehow
there's a bunch of cyclists that deny bike lanes, and other ideas that
may bring millions of people onto the roads.

We've got to suggest a name of Stone's next movie:

"Who killed the bike lanes?"

Bicycle farcilities (sic) such as "bicycle lanes" are promoted by
anti-cyclist motorists who wish to confine bicycles to a ghetto.

Ask anyone who has tried vehicular cycling. It is much better than
cowering in fear in gutter behind a white paint stripe.

What cycling commuters need is vigorous prosecution of the idiotic
cagers who harm others through malice and incompetence.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”

On Aug 30, 11:07*am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
KingOfTheApes wrote:
On Aug 30, 1:02 am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
ComandanteBanana wrote:
This is no ordinary conspiracy like the alliens abducted Bush on 9/11..
This is the real thing, about real cyclists --or so they say-- about
real issues. I didn't invent it though. Got it from here...
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=1#post7368267
(I make my observations below)
Originally Posted by Bekologist
"There's a disturbing consipracy of 'elite' bicyclists that seek to
retard bicycling accommodations in this country. They leave bicycling
stunted by standing as obstructionists to bike specific
infrastructure, or to such limited application that communities will
continue to be designed with autos first and foremost.
sensible transportation engineers understand the public would like a
lot more than 50mph traffic and 14 foot lanes to get out and consider
bicycling in this country. The bare minimum of planning for bikes is
their stated goal, and it is very anti-bike.
Very disturbing. I got an bulk email from a 'bicycle cooridinator' in
a large Texas city faintly bragging how there'd be no new bike lanes
during his term if he had anything to do with it.
this is a club, a clique a loosely organized group of 'trained' and
elite bicyclists that stand in the way of furthering bicycle
accomodation in this country. They stunt bicycling numbers and
participation in this country.
Shame on obstructionists, this makes me sick to see 'bicyclists' so
blind to the rest of the public -
who might think bicycling shouldn't be a sporting game of
assertiveness and bluster undertaken in the midst of fast, distracted
motorists."
Why do you repost such utter garbage?

I always knew about this conspiracy, but I was afraid to be told that
I was into conspiracy theories like the CIA blew up the towers or
Hussein was tied up to terrorism, etc.
This one is true though. If they oppose what would bring the people to
ride bikes is because they hate the ordinary people and want to be the
only ones to ride bikes. They would feel insignificant in a place like
Holland, say.
Oh, Bull****.

Even the commuters are looked down upon because most of them would
favor bike lanes and other facilities. The telltale sign though is
that most wear lycra and ride big buck bikes.
More Bull****. Cycling commuters come to practice vehicular cycling,
since that is what works best. You can take your bicycle ghettos that
promote cyclists as second class road users and bugger off.

They are also Republicans but are often members of the Libertarian
Party. Oh, and only use bikes on Saturdays and Sundays, always for the
hell of it, never to go the market or something. That's my
profiling. *
More utter crap from the anti-cyclist troll.

Everything they say make a lot of sense. There are cyclists standing
on the way of cyclists. I'd expect cars to be the problem, but somehow
there's a bunch of cyclists that deny bike lanes, and other ideas that
may bring millions of people onto the roads.

We've got to suggest a name of Stone's next movie:

"Who killed the bike lanes?"

Bicycle farcilities (sic) such as "bicycle lanes" are promoted by
anti-cyclist motorists who wish to confine bicycles to a ghetto.

Ask anyone who has tried vehicular cycling. It is much better than
cowering in fear in gutter behind a white paint stripe.

What cycling commuters need is vigorous prosecution of the idiotic
cagers who harm others through malice and incompetence.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”

Sounds like the way to go to me, Tom.

However, radical changes like that will take forever to implement. :-
(

Lewis.

*****

[snip]

Originally Posted by Bekologist
"There's a disturbing consipracy of 'elite' bicyclists that seek to
retard bicycling accommodations in this country. They leave
bicycling
stunted by standing as obstructionists to bike specific
infrastructure,

[snip]

I'm not in the USA right now, but I'm proud to admit to being one of
the elite. Actually, it's not a very elitist elite. Here in London,
where bike training is probably the best in the world, thousands of
children each year are being trained to ride properly, and adults are
being trained too.

It is possible, of course, to design good bike networks, and 25 miles
up the road from my location at the northern edge of London lies
Stevenage, the town that showed the world how to do it. Even the
Dutch didn't design good bike networks until they came to visit
Stevenage.

It turns out that to build a good network you have to do things in
the right order. You have to build the network first, and then build
the town round it. Doing it the other way takes too much dynamite,
to get rid of houses and things that are in the wrong place.

It takes plenty of dynamite. Stevenage was started in the 1940s. In
the first half of the 1940s Hitler's luftwaffe had brought over many
planeloads of explosives and incendiary bombs to clear spaces in
Britain's cities, much to the joy of Britain's town planners, who
welcomed the opportunity to get rid of the mistakes of the past, and
to build things again, this time correctly. However, that wasn't
enough to make bike networks possible.

In the last few years there has been another attempt to "help"
cyclists, driven by a mayor who explained that he couldn't possibly
ride a bike himself, owing to some ear problem that interfered with
his balance. The bomb sites are gone now, so it's not possible to
build new bike paths, only to paint bike lanes which never make the
streets wider. I've been pointing out that London has 8500 miles of
bike route, because every street in London is a bike route. It's
obviously unacceptable to declare only a few streets "bike routes",
because that would, presumably, make all the rest "not bike routes",
where the presence of bikes was, at best, somewhat dubious. I've
been told that my view is "true, but not helpful". However, it's not
my job to be helpful to the bureaucrats. It's their job to be
helpful to me.

Cycling has been increasing in London. The congestion charge (about
$15 per day now) no doubt helps. Transit strikes help too. I was
thinking about nominating Bob Crow, leader of the RMT Union, as
cycling's "person of the year" for his transit strikes, but the
organizers thought that wasn't quite what they had in mind. The 7/7
bombings may have helped increase cycling, too.

The presence of more bike facilities here hasn't raised their
reputation. At least there's no law here compelling us to use the
damn things. There's talk about ghettos in the gutter, margins for
the marginalized, built by idiots for idiots. With novice cyclists
taking up cycling, and non cyclists taking an interest in the
subject, there's still some interest in facilities, although not much
among actual cyclists. The result is that it's fairly obvious that
those who talk about bike lanes now don't even know what a lane is.
The most common cause of fatal bike accidents here in left driving
Britain is left turning trucks. That used to account for about a
quarter of the fatalities, but now the new bike lanes seem to be a
magnet to entice novices, particularly women, into the coffin corner.
This led to somewhat confused reports that researchers had discovered
that it was safer for women to run red lights than to wait. And the
proportion of left hook accidents ever increases.

It is still somewhat politically incorrect here to say that bike
training teaches useful skills. Officially it's purpose is only to
"increase confidence". However, I think the British army method of
increasing confidence is quicker and cheaper - just give everyone a
tot of rum before they go over the top. I wonder whether the rum
drinking method works for internet posting too.

Jeremy Parker