TIME'S UP! Responds to NYC's Actions and Statement by Norman Siegel

Mary wrote:

"Steven M. O'Neill" wrote in message
...
m wrote:
Moron - you are simply refusing to take your own responsibility
for tying up traffic

Motor vehicle drivers cause themselves an average of 730,000
vehicle-hours of delay EVERY DAY. Where's the outrage?


CM blocks traffic intentionally riding as slow as possable, and a big
"teenage **** you" to you too.


and causing accidents.

I've never heard of an accident caused by CM.

You choose to deny they happen. Which makes you a lier.

Please cite some reliable stats.

--

"This notion that the United States is getting ready
to attack Iran is simply ridiculous. Having said that,
all options are on the table,"
George Bush, Feb 22 2005

http://www.quantumphilosophy.net/fil...yan_Medium.mov

http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html
http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/weapons.html#wms
WHY IRAQ?: http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html
http://www.toostupidtobepresident.co...ickenhawks.htm

"Bubba got a BJ, BU$H screwed us all!" - Slim

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:20:45 -0500, "Ken [NY]"
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:20:29 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
claims:

On 27 Mar 2005 14:10:02 -0800, Jym Dyer wrote in
message :

Some people who participated in Friday's Critical Mass protest
ride in Manhattan say police confiscated their bicycles without
justification.

It must be great in New York now the most serious crime they have to
deal with is a few cyclists going for a ride without a parade permit.
I must have missed the headlines when they achieved the zero murder
and armed robbery rates - does anyone have links to those stories?

Ask and ye shall receive:

The experts can not work out why the crime rate in NYC is falling
dramatically while even Brooklyn and Queens crime rates remain the
same and all other large cities crime rates are rising. But
Madhusudana Prabhu knows what is happening. Over the past three years
the distribution of Srila Prabhupada's books in NYC has increased
dramatically... BBC (03-25-02)

Things are getting better in Iraq too.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:01:09 -0600, "Mary" wrote:


"Steven M. O'Neill" wrote in message
...
m wrote:
Moron - you are simply refusing to take your own responsibility
for tying up traffic

Motor vehicle drivers cause themselves an average of 730,000
vehicle-hours of delay EVERY DAY. Where's the outrage?


CM blocks traffic intentionally riding as slow as possable, and a big
"teenage **** you" to you too.



I was in a CM ride once, by accident, before I had ever even heard of
them. In July of last year I left a concert at South Street Seaport,
one of the few times I was going to ride at night. I had planned to go
up the bike/pedestrian path until I got close to a subway and then
take it home to Queens.

While riding up the path I saw that on the other side of a wall on my
left were maybe 20 folks riding bikes. Most without lights, some
without helmets. And, apparently, on the FDR drive. Accompanied by a
cop on a motorcycle. So I yelled over to them "hey, what is this
about?" and someone yelled back "we're going for a bike ride".
Insufficient information I thought. So I sped up to keep pace with
them and when we got near 14th street there was a ramp up on my side
to the street and an exit lane on their side. We met at the top and
they stopped and waited for other bikes to catch up. There were
several hundred as best I could tell.

So I joined them. We rode around for an hour or so with the leaders
apparently choosing direction on a whim. No leaders really, since I
was up there with them. Just someone would say "that way" and off we
went. Folks on the sidewalks were cheering and waving. Cars were good
naturedly waiting while groups of bikes passed.

No one went intentionally slowly so you are wrong there. There were
certainly enough bikes to cause traffic problems but that happens all
the time with cars and no one gives a ****.

So I found out about Critical Mass, so named because once there are
enough bikes, yes, the cars have to defer to you. Instead of pedaling
along on the side hoping that no one throws a door in my face I get to
ride in the lanes. You don't like it? Tough ****. A big "middle age
**** you" to you.

I haven't gone on another ride, mostly because I'm just not in
Manhattan very often on the last Friday of the month at 7 pm. Nor do I
want to be arrested. But it was fun; almost everyone, motorists and
pedestrians enjoyed the spectacle. Everyone there had parents and
family. No one would block an ambulance or firetruck. Well, maybe some
nut would, or more likely, an agent provocature.

It was sort of like Bike New York, where we can actually use the
streets that we pay for without getting killed. But that happens once
a year and costs money. Bottom line, more bikes, less cars, the city
gets better.

Oh, I bought a very nice 6 watt halogen system and I now bike at night
all I want. New York City is never really dark anyway.

[added nyc.general]

Mary wrote:
"Steven M. O'Neill" wrote in message
m wrote:
Moron - you are simply refusing to take your own responsibility
for tying up traffic

Motor vehicle drivers cause themselves an average of 730,000
vehicle-hours of delay EVERY DAY. Where's the outrage?

CM blocks traffic intentionally riding as slow as possable, and a big
"teenage **** you" to you too.

I have been on only a few CM rides, but I can confidently
state that people ride at whatever pace they want. That's not
illegal. Certainly the throughput (people per square foot
per hour) is better with bicycles than with motor vehicles.
Consider a speed of 30 mph for cars (the NYC legal limit) and
10 mph for bikes. That means that if 4 bikes take up the same
space (including following distance) of 1 car, then the bikes
win.

If you're so worried about "tying up traffic" I suggest you
begin advocating more bicycle use postehaste. Many bicycle
advocates use salty language also -- you'll fit in just fine.

and causing accidents.

I've never heard of an accident caused by CM.

You choose to deny they happen.

Please provide some reliable cites.

Which makes you a lier.

I've heard of people lying down in the road, but that wasn't me.

That means that
EVERY DAY motor vehicle drivers cause INFINITELY more accidents.

So keep your bicycles out of the street.

Um, so keep out motor vehicles out you mean? They are the ones
causing the "accidents".

Where's the outrage?

CM doesn't "educate" safety, it degrades it.

Please translate this into English. Thank you.

--
Steven O'Neill
The bicycle is the true automobile.

=v= This has veered off-topic, but I'll veer it back. Ken
doesn't cite a peer-reviewed journal of criminology, preferring
instead the popular and tabloid press, as presented by (heck,
why not?) the Hare Krishna Movement:

http://preaching.krishna.org/Articles/2002/02/019.html

This mentions the NYPD's "much lauded zero-tolerance policy,"
a focus on petty crimes and such that in theory prevents
bigger crimes from happening down the road. It does admit
that no actual research supports this theory, but who needs
that when you can be "much lauded" by a public relations effort?

=v= In actuality, "Zero-Tolerance" is just marketing, replete
with high-school-mascot-bulldog logo that police like to slap
on their SUVs so they can look tuff when parking in bike lanes.
This tolerance is nowhere near zero; officers look the other
way or even actively solicity kickbacks from petty criminals.
Some aspire to cashing in on less-petty scams like the ones
that were so lucrative for Bernard Kerik.

=v= This is only tangentially relevant to the NYPD attacks on
Critical Mass, though. There's no petty crime going on here,
of course. Some individuals have earned traffic infractions,
though in general the NYPD's response to that is Near-Infinite
Tolerance, at least for motorists. But even that has nothing
to do with the pretexts being used for arresting CMers.

=v= Critical Mass is traffic. The NYPD is pretending it's
something else, and using laws against that something else as
a pretext for arrests. That's the issue here.
_Jym_

Ken [NY] wrote:
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 08:52:01 -0500, dgk
claims:

So I joined them. We rode around for an hour or so with the leaders
apparently choosing direction on a whim. No leaders really, since I
was up there with them. Just someone would say "that way" and off we
went.

Sounds like leadership to me.

Sounds more like Brownian motion to me.

http://tinyurl.com/4undx

R

soinie wrote:

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:20:45 -0500, "Ken [NY]"
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:20:29 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
claims:

On 27 Mar 2005 14:10:02 -0800, Jym Dyer wrote in
message :

Some people who participated in Friday's Critical Mass protest
ride in Manhattan say police confiscated their bicycles without
justification.

It must be great in New York now the most serious crime they have to
deal with is a few cyclists going for a ride without a parade permit.
I must have missed the headlines when they achieved the zero murder
and armed robbery rates - does anyone have links to those stories?

Ask and ye shall receive:

The experts can not work out why the crime rate in NYC is falling
dramatically while even Brooklyn and Queens crime rates remain the
same and all other large cities crime rates are rising. But
Madhusudana Prabhu knows what is happening. Over the past three years
the distribution of Srila Prabhupada's books in NYC has increased
dramatically... BBC (03-25-02)

Things are getting better in Iraq too.

Really?

Billions ****ed away, innocent people getting killed every day,
politicans getting FAT off the blood of innocents.

Yup, Iraq is a great place to live.

--

"This notion that the United States is getting ready
to attack Iran is simply ridiculous. Having said that,
all options are on the table,"
George Bush, Feb 22 2005

http://www.quantumphilosophy.net/fil...yan_Medium.mov

http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html
http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/weapons.html#wms
WHY IRAQ?: http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html
http://www.toostupidtobepresident.co...ickenhawks.htm

"Bubba got a BJ, BU$H screwed us all!" - Slim

"Ken [NY]" wrote:

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 08:52:01 -0500, dgk
claims:

So I joined them. We rode around for an hour or so with the leaders
apparently choosing direction on a whim. No leaders really, since I
was up there with them. Just someone would say "that way" and off we
went.

Sounds like leadership to me.

This country could use some "leadership".

--

"This notion that the United States is getting ready
to attack Iran is simply ridiculous. Having said that,
all options are on the table,"
George Bush, Feb 22 2005

http://www.quantumphilosophy.net/fil...yan_Medium.mov

http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html
http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/weapons.html#wms
WHY IRAQ?: http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html
http://www.toostupidtobepresident.co...ickenhawks.htm

"Bubba got a BJ, BU$H screwed us all!" - Slim

"Ken [NY]" wrote:

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 05:48:28 GMT, soinie
claims:

The experts can not work out why the crime rate in NYC is falling
dramatically while even Brooklyn and Queens crime rates remain the
same and all other large cities crime rates are rising. But
Madhusudana Prabhu knows what is happening. Over the past three years
the distribution of Srila Prabhupada's books in NYC has increased
dramatically... BBC (03-25-02)

Things are getting better in Iraq too.

Iraq is probably safer than DC or LA where the body counts are
quite high.

More propaganda from an ex-LEO who drove a desk.

KKKen, were there over 1500 murders in DC or LA since the
Terrorist Invasion and Occupation of Iraq?

You are a typical lying cop....excuse me, EX-COP.

--

"This notion that the United States is getting ready
to attack Iran is simply ridiculous. Having said that,
all options are on the table,"
George Bush, Feb 22 2005

http://www.quantumphilosophy.net/fil...yan_Medium.mov

http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html
http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/weapons.html#wms
WHY IRAQ?: http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html
http://www.toostupidtobepresident.co...ickenhawks.htm

"Bubba got a BJ, BU$H screwed us all!" - Slim

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:20:45 -0500, "Ken [NY]"
wrote in message :

New York's violent crime rate has continued to fall,
bringing it down to a level not seen since the 1960s. According to
statistics from the New York Police Department the murder rate in the
city between 1 January and 17 March is nearly 40% lower than it was
for the same period last year.

40% lower than what, though? How much safer or less safe is it than,
say, Ottawa?

And is a few guys going for a ride genuinely the most serious crime
out there?

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound