NY Times on NYC bicycle deaths

The Wogster wrote:

As for getting doored, it's actually as much the cyclists fault, as the
door opener.

I agree with everything you said except this. The fact that the cyclist
could (or should) have been somewhere else does not make an accident
their fault. The fault lies with the person who failed to check for
traffic before opening the door. The woman who got killed by the truck
in NYC recently is an excellent example: had she taken the lane, she
wouldn't have gotten doored, the truck that crushed her would not have
been overtaking in an unsafe fashion at the same time, and she would be
alive today. We can all learn from this. But she was not at fault in
the accident.

CC

wrote:
That and tourists flinging open cab doors into traffic without looking.
They should weld the doors shut on the left side of all the cabs in the
city.

That one has possibilities.
Do cabs ever unload on the left side of one way streets?

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The Wogster wrote:

As for getting doored, it's actually as much the cyclists fault, as the
door opener.

I agree with everything you said except this. The fact that the cyclist
could (or should) have been somewhere else does not make an accident
their fault. The fault lies with the person who failed to check for
traffic before opening the door.

That is what a "soon to be dead man" thinks. Hope that someone else is
looking out for your ass.


The woman who got killed by the truck
in NYC recently is an excellent example: had she taken the lane, she
wouldn't have gotten doored, the truck that crushed her would not have
been overtaking in an unsafe fashion at the same time, and she would be
alive today. We can all learn from this. But she was not at fault in
the accident.

Yes she was, She ran into his door, She was going too fast for conditions,
She failed to stop, She failed to avoid a metal object, She failed to change
her path, She failed to occupy the safe lane.

You are wrong, you put your life into the hands of idiot drivers and hope
they get a ticket if you get doored and killed.

Your logic fully supports self-elimination.

You are a moron.


CC

Mitch Haley wrote:
wrote:
That and tourists flinging open cab doors into traffic without looking.
They should weld the doors shut on the left side of all the cabs in the
city.

That one has possibilities.
Do cabs ever unload on the left side of one way streets?

Of course.

--
"There are number of people asking about fixed and its meaning. This
is a real joke. I do not know anyone in the UK who took it to mean
anything other than fixed as in fixed a race, fixed an election, fixed
the intelligence. If you fix something, you make it the way you want it."

Mitch Haley wrote:

They should weld the doors shut on the left side of all the cabs in the
city.

That one has possibilities.
Do cabs ever unload on the left side of one way streets?

For every good idea, there's always a smartass to shoot it down.

Pick your favorite retort:

(a) It would solve half of the problem
(b) We could weld _both_ doors shut, and they would have to climb in
and out the window. This would be especially good for tourists from
NASCAR states.
(c) Make all cabs minivans, with those cool sliding doors on both
sides.
(d) Equip all NYC cyclists with a big spike on the front of the bike.
At least they'd take out one or two of the enemy every year.

CC

Kac Demetrie wrote:
The fault lies with the person who failed to check for
traffic before opening the door.

That is what a "soon to be dead man" thinks. Hope that someone else is
looking out for your ass.

Where did I say I ride in the door zone?


The woman who got killed by the truck in NYC recently is an excellent
example
[...]
But she was not at fault in the accident.

Yes she was, She ran into his door, She was going too fast for conditions,
She failed to stop, She failed to avoid a metal object, She failed to change
her path, She failed to occupy the safe lane.

In every such situation, 20-20 hindsight will almost always produce a
dozen ways the dead person could have escaped. Discussing the situation
and the options does not amount to blaming the victim, but
characterizing this woman's death as "failing to avoid a metal object"
is pretty ****ing stupid.

You are wrong, you put your life into the hands of idiot drivers and hope
they get a ticket if you get doored and killed.

Where did I say I ride in the door zone?

We put our lives into the hands of idiot drivers every time we venture
into traffic. There is nothing wrong with this. Until you realize that
simple fact, you will never ride in traffic as if you belong.

But don't ride in the door zone.

CC

wrote in message
ups.com...


Kac Demetrie wrote:
The fault lies with the person who failed to check for
traffic before opening the door.

That is what a "soon to be dead man" thinks. Hope that someone else is
looking out for your ass.

Where did I say I ride in the door zone?

You said it was "not her fault", and go on blaming others rather point out
the real responcability is with the Bicycle rider.



The woman who got killed by the truck in NYC recently is an excellent
example
[...]
But she was not at fault in the accident.

Yes she was, She ran into his door, She was going too fast for
conditions,
She failed to stop, She failed to avoid a metal object, She failed to
change
her path, She failed to occupy the safe lane.

In every such situation, 20-20 hindsight will almost always produce a
dozen ways the dead person could have escaped. Discussing the situation
and the options does not amount to blaming the victim, but
characterizing this woman's death as "failing to avoid a metal object"
is pretty ****ing stupid.

Agree that you are "pretty ****ing stupid" for implying the bicycle rider
cannot avoid the situation, and it is always the car driver that failed to
check.


You are wrong, you put your life into the hands of idiot drivers and
hope
they get a ticket if you get doored and killed.

Where did I say I ride in the door zone?

Is that wrong? Was she wrong? Was She wrong for riding in the door zone?


We put our lives into the hands of idiot drivers every time we venture
into traffic. There is nothing wrong with this. Until you realize that
simple fact, you will never ride in traffic as if you belong.

But don't ride in the door zone.

CC

So SHE was at fault.

wrote:

The Wogster wrote:

As for getting doored, it's actually as much the cyclists fault, as the
door opener.


I agree with everything you said except this. The fact that the cyclist
could (or should) have been somewhere else does not make an accident
their fault. The fault lies with the person who failed to check for
traffic before opening the door. The woman who got killed by the truck
in NYC recently is an excellent example: had she taken the lane, she
wouldn't have gotten doored, the truck that crushed her would not have
been overtaking in an unsafe fashion at the same time, and she would be
alive today. We can all learn from this. But she was not at fault in
the accident.


Both share the fault, the cyclist for riding too close to parked cars,
and the door opener for not looking. Of course, if you ride far enough
away, and the door opener doesn't see you, then a near miss, is better
then full contact. One issue, cyclists need to do as much as possible
to make sure they are seen. In Canada cars and motorcycles are required
to have lights on, during the day. A cyclist could also ride with
lights on, during the day.

W

Vol Parkic wrote:

So SHE was at fault.

Uh, no. The law is quite clear on this.

CC

wrote in message
ups.com...

Vol Parkic wrote:

So SHE was at fault.

Uh, no. The law is quite clear on this.


Actually it isn't.
According to Times Up! less than 20% of the vehicle drivers suffer anything
legal at all.