Keep Breaking Shifter Cables - Why?

"Steve Sr." wrote in message
...
On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 22:40:35 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:

"Steve Sr." wrote in message
. ..
Hello,

I have a 10-speed Ultegra equipped road bike in which the rear
deraileur cable keeps breaking strands near the shifter which
necessitates a cable replacement. The broken strands occur about
3/4"
from the barrel. This is currently happening every 3000 miles or so.

Originally I was using Jagwire replacement wires as that seems to be
what most local shops now carry. At the last replacement I decided
to
opt for real Shimano inner wires. When removing the old cable I
compared the cable diameter and found that the Jagwire inner wires
were .010-.015" smaller in diameter compared to the new Shimano
inner
wire. Also at this time I replaced the plastic ferrules with the
aluminum variety as recommended by the LBS that sold me the cable.

Fast forward about 6 months. This weekend I was cleaning and
inspecting the bike in preparation for the upcoming MS 150 event
next
weekend. Much to my surprise I found a broken strand in the new
Shimano cable necessitating yet another cable replacement.

When removing the old cable rather than unwinding the broken strand
I
picked up a pair of regular needle nose pliers that happened to have
side cutters built in and to my amazement these cutters went right
through the cable! In the past I can remember these steel cables
being
un-cutable by this method. For identification purposes the side of
the cable barrel has an "R" stamped in the side of it.

So is this a characteristic of the newer cables or does Shimano have
several different grades of shifter cables? If so how do I know
which
one best and which one I am getting?

Any other things that I should check that might be causing these
premature cable failures?


Thanks,

Steve

One of the variables we've recently found responsible for shortening
cable
life is the use of drink mixes in the downtube water bottle, which
will
sometimes get on the gear cable and run down to the bottom bracket
cable
guide, where it will cause a lot of increased friction in the system.
Another is worn shift cable housing; I'd recommend replacing the
housing at
the same time as the cable. And if neither of those are responsible
for your
cables breaking, it's possible you have a lever that simply likes to
eat
cables. Shimano admits that there are some out there, and they'll
replace,
on a case-by-case basis, levers that are no longer functional because
a
cable has broken off inside the lever and the head cannot be removed.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Mike,

I know about the sports drink issue and don't believe that this is a
contributing factor in my case.

The lever is probably about 2-3 years old right now so out of warranty
unless it is extended for this issue. So far I have been able to catch
the failures without completely breaking a cable and getting the head
stuck in the shifter. One broken strand is enough to be noticeable. I
cant see how anyone could let it go to complete cable breakage without
noticing shifting issues.

Steve

Shimano doesn't replace levers that simply break cables, but does
replace levers in which cables have failed inside them and cannot be
removed. How strictly they stick to warranty periods I don't honestly
know (Ultegra has a 2 year warranty, and Dura Ace 3 years). And yes, one
broken strand has an effect on shifting, but people generally think that
their derailleur has simply gone out of adjustment. But after you adjust
it a few times there should come a recognition that you're dealing with
a moving target and something is going wrong beyond simple adjustment.

The initial symptom of a failing cable is that you can shift to a larger
sprocket, but it doesn't want to go so easily in the other direction.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Phil W Lee wrote:
Steve Sr. considered Tue, 08 Sep 2009 21:41:32
-0400 the perfect time to write:

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:13:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

Steve Sr. wrote:
Hello,

I have a 10-speed Ultegra equipped road bike in which the rear
deraileur cable keeps breaking strands near the shifter which
necessitates a cable replacement. The broken strands occur about 3/4"
from the barrel. This is currently happening every 3000 miles or so.

Originally I was using Jagwire replacement wires as that seems to be
what most local shops now carry. At the last replacement I decided to
opt for real Shimano inner wires. When removing the old cable I
compared the cable diameter and found that the Jagwire inner wires
were .010-.015" smaller in diameter compared to the new Shimano inner
wire. Also at this time I replaced the plastic ferrules with the
aluminum variety as recommended by the LBS that sold me the cable.

Fast forward about 6 months. This weekend I was cleaning and
inspecting the bike in preparation for the upcoming MS 150 event next
weekend. Much to my surprise I found a broken strand in the new
Shimano cable necessitating yet another cable replacement.

When removing the old cable rather than unwinding the broken strand I
picked up a pair of regular needle nose pliers that happened to have
side cutters built in and to my amazement these cutters went right
through the cable! In the past I can remember these steel cables being
un-cutable by this method. For identification purposes the side of
the cable barrel has an "R" stamped in the side of it.

So is this a characteristic of the newer cables or does Shimano have
several different grades of shifter cables? If so how do I know which
one best and which one I am getting?

Any other things that I should check that might be causing these
premature cable failures?
Both Shimano and Jaguar make various grades of gear wire.
Do you replace the casing with a new wire?
No the casing has not been replaced. How would one know if it needed
replacing?

From repeated breaks of the inner cable near to the end of the casing,
or any visible damage.

Speaking of such, I have a pair of Cane Creek brand brake cables in my
parts box (was going to recable my bike and never got to it - but I'll
be using them on this Trek I am working on) and they only have two
ferrules for the pair. Shouldn't you use a ferrule at each end of each
cable run? Or do you theoretically not need a ferrule at the barrel
adjuster if you square the end properly?

I realize the OP was talking about shift cables but I ASSume that the
same principle goes for both. It'd be even worse for shift cables as
unless you use DT shifters the RD would have two separate runs of
housing (one from the shifter/brifter to the cable stop on the downtube
boss, and then one from the chainstay to the derailleur)

I always thought that you should replace the housing whenever you
replace the cables, unless you're on the road and need a quick repair.
Not true?

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 10 Sep, 01:29, Nate Nagel wrote:
Phil W Lee wrote:
Steve Sr. considered Tue, 08 Sep 2009 21:41:32
-0400 the perfect time to write:

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:13:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

Steve Sr. wrote:
Hello,

I have a 10-speed Ultegra equipped road bike in which the rear
deraileur cable keeps breaking strands near the shifter which
necessitates a cable replacement. The broken strands occur about 3/4"
from the barrel. This is currently happening every 3000 miles or so.

Originally I was using Jagwire replacement wires as that seems to be
what most local shops now carry. At the last replacement I decided to
opt for real Shimano inner wires. When removing the old cable I
compared the cable diameter and found that the Jagwire inner wires
were .010-.015" smaller in diameter compared to the new Shimano inner
wire. Also at this time I replaced the plastic ferrules with the
aluminum variety as recommended by the LBS that sold me the cable.

Fast forward about 6 months. This weekend I was cleaning and
inspecting the bike in preparation for the upcoming MS 150 event next
weekend. *Much to my surprise I found a broken strand in the new
Shimano cable necessitating yet another cable replacement.

When removing the old cable rather than unwinding the broken strand I
picked up a pair of regular needle nose pliers that happened to have
side cutters built in and to my amazement these cutters went right
through the cable! In the past I can remember these steel cables being
un-cutable by this method. *For identification purposes the side of
the cable barrel has an "R" stamped in the side of it.

So is this a characteristic of the newer cables or does Shimano have
several different grades of shifter cables? If so how do I know which
one best and which one I am getting?

Any other things that I should check that might be causing these
premature cable failures?
Both Shimano and Jaguar make various grades of gear wire.
Do you replace the casing with a new wire?
No the casing has not been replaced. How would one know if it needed
replacing?

From repeated breaks of the inner cable near to the end of the casing,
or any visible damage.

Speaking of such, I have a pair of Cane Creek brand brake cables in my
parts box (was going to recable my bike and never got to it - but I'll
be using them on this Trek I am working on) and they only have two
ferrules for the pair. *Shouldn't you use a ferrule at each end of each
cable run? *Or do you theoretically not need a ferrule at the barrel
adjuster if you square the end properly?

I realize the OP was talking about shift cables but I ASSume that the
same principle goes for both. *It'd be even worse for shift cables as
unless you use DT shifters the RD would have two separate runs of
housing (one from the shifter/brifter to the cable stop on the downtube
boss, and then one from the chainstay to the derailleur)

I always thought that you should replace the housing whenever you
replace the cables, unless you're on the road and need a quick repair.
Not true?

Good brake housing will last a loooong time. It's more appropriate to
give it a good inspection than to spend time replacing it for no
benefit. Modern housings with plastic liner need a shot of silicon
through them quite infrequently. If there are no kinks in the
housing simply give it a scrub with a plastic pan scrub to brighten it
up.

The examination of the outer should include a check for coil
displacement when the brake is on hard. The housing may bulge,
particularly at the start of bends. Using aero routing and taping the
cable to the bars eliminates most of this. I still like the
appearance of the racer's loops above the bars but appreciate the
benefits of having them taped down, not least unrestricted access to
my handlebar bag when riding.

On 9 Sep, 06:24, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:
"Steve Sr." wrote in message

...



On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 22:40:35 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:

"Steve Sr." wrote in message
. ..
Hello,

I have a 10-speed Ultegra equipped road bike in which the rear
deraileur cable keeps breaking strands near the shifter which
necessitates a cable replacement. The broken strands occur about
3/4"
from the barrel. This is currently happening every 3000 miles or so.

Originally I was using Jagwire replacement wires as that seems to be
what most local shops now carry. At the last replacement I decided
to
opt for real Shimano inner wires. When removing the old cable I
compared the cable diameter and found that the Jagwire inner wires
were .010-.015" smaller in diameter compared to the new Shimano
inner
wire. Also at this time I replaced the plastic ferrules with the
aluminum variety as recommended by the LBS that sold me the cable.

Fast forward about 6 months. This weekend I was cleaning and
inspecting the bike in preparation for the upcoming MS 150 event
next
weekend. *Much to my surprise I found a broken strand in the new
Shimano cable necessitating yet another cable replacement.

When removing the old cable rather than unwinding the broken strand
I
picked up a pair of regular needle nose pliers that happened to have
side cutters built in and to my amazement these cutters went right
through the cable! In the past I can remember these steel cables
being
un-cutable by this method. *For identification purposes the side of
the cable barrel has an "R" stamped in the side of it.

So is this a characteristic of the newer cables or does Shimano have
several different grades of shifter cables? If so how do I know
which
one best and which one I am getting?

Any other things that I should check that might be causing these
premature cable failures?

Thanks,

Steve

One of the variables we've recently found responsible for shortening
cable
life is the use of drink mixes in the downtube water bottle, which
will
sometimes get on the gear cable and run down to the bottom bracket
cable
guide, where it will cause a lot of increased friction in the system.
Another is worn shift cable housing; I'd recommend replacing the
housing at
the same time as the cable. And if neither of those are responsible
for your
cables breaking, it's possible you have a lever that simply likes to
eat
cables. Shimano admits that there are some out there, and they'll
replace,
on a case-by-case basis, levers that are no longer functional because
a
cable has broken off inside the lever and the head cannot be removed.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Mike,

I know about the sports drink issue and don't believe that this is a
contributing factor in my case.

The lever is probably about 2-3 years old right now so out of warranty
unless it is extended for this issue. So far I have been able to catch
the failures without completely breaking a cable and getting the head
stuck in the shifter. One broken strand is enough to be noticeable. I
cant see how anyone could let it go to complete cable breakage without
noticing shifting issues.

Steve

Shimano doesn't replace levers that simply break cables, but does
replace levers in which cables have failed inside them and cannot be
removed. How strictly they stick to warranty periods I don't honestly
know (Ultegra has a 2 year warranty, and Dura Ace 3 years). And yes, one
broken strand has an effect on shifting, but people generally think that
their derailleur has simply gone out of adjustment. But after you adjust
it a few times there should come a recognition that you're dealing with
a moving target and something is going wrong beyond simple adjustment.

The initial symptom of a failing cable is that you can shift to a larger
sprocket, but it doesn't want to go so easily in the other direction.

I think all these complainers of failing shift cables shold upgrade to
down tube friction shifters.

someone wrote:

I think all these complainers of failing shift cables shold upgrade to
down tube friction shifters.

Top-mounted thumbshifters seem satisfactory to me.

Chalo

On 10 Sep, 06:01, Chalo wrote:
someone wrote:

I think all these complainers of failing shift cables shold upgrade to
down tube friction shifters.

Top-mounted thumbshifters seem satisfactory to me.


I've thought about them for myself. Are they suitable for 26.x mm of
the centre section of a drop bar?

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:03:29 -0400, Steve Sr.
wrote:

Hello,

I have a 10-speed Ultegra equipped road bike in which the rear
deraileur cable keeps breaking strands near the shifter which
necessitates a cable replacement. The broken strands occur about 3/4"
from the barrel. This is currently happening every 3000 miles or so.

Originally I was using Jagwire replacement wires as that seems to be
what most local shops now carry. At the last replacement I decided to
opt for real Shimano inner wires. When removing the old cable I
compared the cable diameter and found that the Jagwire inner wires
were .010-.015" smaller in diameter compared to the new Shimano inner
wire. Also at this time I replaced the plastic ferrules with the
aluminum variety as recommended by the LBS that sold me the cable.

Fast forward about 6 months. This weekend I was cleaning and
inspecting the bike in preparation for the upcoming MS 150 event next
weekend. Much to my surprise I found a broken strand in the new
Shimano cable necessitating yet another cable replacement.

When removing the old cable rather than unwinding the broken strand I
picked up a pair of regular needle nose pliers that happened to have
side cutters built in and to my amazement these cutters went right
through the cable! In the past I can remember these steel cables being
un-cutable by this method. For identification purposes the side of
the cable barrel has an "R" stamped in the side of it.

So is this a characteristic of the newer cables or does Shimano have
several different grades of shifter cables? If so how do I know which
one best and which one I am getting?

Any other things that I should check that might be causing these
premature cable failures?


Thanks,

Steve

As recommended I got around to replacing the cable housings last
weekend with the generic 4mm Shimano bulk housing available at my LBS.
I cut the housings with the cable cutter and squared the ends up with
a diamond hone from a Leatherman multi-tool.

The new housings appeard to have a small amount of silicone grease in
them which I left alone. I suspect that this will eventually attract
and hold more grit but we'll see.

Upon my first test ride I noticed that the shifting was considerably
easier than before. However, it never was hard before. Don't know if
it was the new housings or the silicone grease that accounted for the
difference.

Now we're in the "life test" phase to see if this cable lasts any
longer than the last

Thanks,

Steve

On Sep 7, 9:03*pm, Steve Sr. wrote:
Hello,

I have a 10-speed Ultegra equipped road bike in which the rear
deraileur cable keeps breaking strands near the shifter which
necessitates a cable replacement.
.. . .
Thanks,

Steve

I have a similar problem with a New 10 speed Ultegra SL setup. Broke
the first head off the rear shift cable at 1500 miles. Just broke the
second at the same place in the shifter at 3000 miles. I rarely use
drink mixes so that is not an issue.
I can only think this is an issue with a sharp area in the shifter or
cable end.

I've always carried a spare shift cable while riding and have saved
many a ride as only takes about 10 minutes to change one.
Quit carrying a spare brake cable and have never broken one in over
105K miles.

On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 21:42:08 -0400, Steve Sr. wrote:

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:03:29 -0400, Steve Sr.
wrote:

Hello,

I have a 10-speed Ultegra equipped road bike in which the rear
deraileur cable keeps breaking strands near the shifter which
necessitates a cable replacement. The broken strands occur about 3/4"
from the barrel. This is currently happening every 3000 miles or so.

Originally I was using Jagwire replacement wires as that seems to be
what most local shops now carry. At the last replacement I decided to
opt for real Shimano inner wires. When removing the old cable I
compared the cable diameter and found that the Jagwire inner wires
were .010-.015" smaller in diameter compared to the new Shimano inner
wire. Also at this time I replaced the plastic ferrules with the
aluminum variety as recommended by the LBS that sold me the cable.

Fast forward about 6 months. This weekend I was cleaning and
inspecting the bike in preparation for the upcoming MS 150 event next
weekend. Much to my surprise I found a broken strand in the new
Shimano cable necessitating yet another cable replacement.

When removing the old cable rather than unwinding the broken strand I
picked up a pair of regular needle nose pliers that happened to have
side cutters built in and to my amazement these cutters went right
through the cable! In the past I can remember these steel cables being
un-cutable by this method. For identification purposes the side of
the cable barrel has an "R" stamped in the side of it.

So is this a characteristic of the newer cables or does Shimano have
several different grades of shifter cables? If so how do I know which
one best and which one I am getting?

Any other things that I should check that might be causing these
premature cable failures?


Thanks,

Steve

As recommended I got around to replacing the cable housings last
weekend with the generic 4mm Shimano bulk housing available at my LBS.
I cut the housings with the cable cutter and squared the ends up with
a diamond hone from a Leatherman multi-tool.

The new housings appeard to have a small amount of silicone grease in
them which I left alone. I suspect that this will eventually attract
and hold more grit but we'll see.

Upon my first test ride I noticed that the shifting was considerably
easier than before. However, it never was hard before. Don't know if
it was the new housings or the silicone grease that accounted for the
difference.

Now we're in the "life test" phase to see if this cable lasts any
longer than the last

Thanks,

Steve

I had my Ultegra rear shifter cable break inside the mechanism. I brought it to
my LBS, who sold me the bike. He couldn't get it out either and called Shimano
who, he said, claimed there was no repair for this and would swap it since it
was still under warrantee. However, it was a slow day and he decided to keep
playing with it. Eventually, after a few hours, he was able to fish out the
frayed end. I think that is pretty sad for a "premium" component. - LBS did not
charge me, incase anyone was going to ask :-)


Ben