The most contentious element of bicycle design is (wait forit...trumpets, maestro) -- the stand!

On 6/08/2014 2:31 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 5:49:53 AM UTC+1, Peter Howard wrote:

The day I can't bend a little to pick up a bicycle is the day I
give up cycling.

PH

A baboon with its red arse in the air, picking up its bike. Suits you well, Howie.

Why is cycling so full of fascists who think their way is the only way?

Andre Jute
Hilarious images on demand

Ah, Jutie-Liar displaying his typical unsavory interest in arses, in
this case an animals. As usual you have it all wrong.The hilarious part
of your demented wittering is this.
"Why is cycling so full of fascists who think their way is the only way?"
It sounds like you're talking about yourself though it's an abrupt
change of subject from the previous sentence where you are salivating
about a baboons arse. Still, nobody ever said you are a writer except
you. If it isn't supposed to be about you, your lack of self-awareness
or any sense of irony would be astounding if you weren't known to be a
chronic troll and liar.
I'm intrigued by the many different kinds of human powered vehicles even
though many of them don't suit my needs, interests or abilities. I
appreciate every sort of cyclist on every sort of bicycle, and that even
includes elderly fibbers wobbling down to the muffin shop on electric
mopeds if that's all they can manage.

Ta-ta, you sad little creature and do stop jumping up looking for the
attention of your betters. On rare occasions I'll throw you a crumb but
you're generally wasting your time trying for the last word. I have a
life I need to get on with so I won't be checking back.

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 3:46:42 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I again use myself as my best example. My background was in cheap

consumer electronics and seat of the pants production engineering.

Underscore the word cheap. No matter how hard I tries, I always

thought cheap first. At one point, I worked on a product where price

was not quite so important and where (perceived) quality and

performance were the prime objectives. I ended up being sidelined to

a non-design function because I couldn't stop thinking cheap, no

matter how hard I tried. I expect much the same from a racing bicycle

engineer.

The problem is that, unless you hire a Dutchman or a German, if you insist on an anglophone, the only bike designer you'll find is a racing bike designer, because of that hanging legacy of the @£$%^&*() Peugeot ten-speed, or a mountainbike designer. The very, very odd exception is fully employed: I have in mind the guy who designs the Pashleys in Britain, and Joe Breeze.. The other guys are racing bike relicts who see a touring bike as a racing bike with rocketry for a rack and low loaders and an extra water bottle.

Andre Jute

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 3:12:25 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Something is wrong. The quality of my ideas is directly proportional

to the level of resistance, criticism, and dire predictions of failure

that they attract. Some of my best ideas were initially deemed

useless by the experts. To keep my ego fully inflated, please amend

your statement to at least indicate that you have reservations about

the idea.

I knew that idea needed development to justify a value-added premium price, as is the norm in bicycle components. But Wednesday is my day to be nice to people, so I graciously forbore saying so. I expect gratitude for my tolerance.

Andre Jute

On 8/5/2014 4:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 4 Aug 2014 10:23:04 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote:

It's plain guilt causing bicycle designers to get hot under
the collar any time the subject of bicycle stands is raised.

If they become overheated when raising anything, they probably need
more exercise.

I had kickstands on most of my bicycles over the years. About 20
years ago, I decided that in their then current manifestation, that
kickstands were a bad idea. With a top heavy load, such as a bag of
groceries on the rear rack, they were easily toppled. I also had the
juvenile and suicidal habit of lowering the kickstand with my foot
while coming to a stop. That worked most of the time, but sending me
to a first aid station the remaining times. As I vaguely recall, I've
had more incidents with my left pant cuff getting caught in the
kickstand, then my right cuff getting caught in the chainwheel.

While riding locally in the hills, I usually carry a 1 meter length of
3/5" PVC pipe. It wasn't originally intended as a kickstand, but
rather as a dog deterrent. It has also proven useful for tapping on
automobile windows. I've thought of using it as a rocket launching
tube, but never had the time to build one. At some point in the
distant past, I added a modified PVC "T" connector for it to act as a
kickstand.
http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/slides/PVC-kickstand.html
The other end really should be pointed or crenulated to get a better
grip on the ground, but a straight cut works on dirt. I could also
make it telescoping and adjustable, but haven't found a need.
Unfortunately, like the traditional kickstand, mine tends to topple
with a top heavy load. My solution is simply to not use it when
schlepping a top heavy load.

Like a kickstand, I've lusted after a carryable workstand. Having the
rear wheel off the ground and the bike level would allow me to
maintenance on the rear wheel on the road. Such rear dropout mounted
kickstands are somewhat popular in Japan:
https://www.google.com/search?q=japan+bicycle+kick+stand&tbm=isch
(First two rows of photos).

Andre Jute
Plain thinking, plain speaking -- are the Amish taking converts?

Ideas always start out plain and simple, and soon accelerate towards
complexity. If it seems easy, simple, obvious, and devoid of
problems, you've probably missed a fatal flaw.




Hop in your time machine to England in the 1980s, when
anything called "2000" seemed futuristic and innovative:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/carbkick.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, August 5, 2014 11:58:05 PM UTC+2, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 4 Aug 2014 10:23:04 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute

wrote:



It's plain guilt causing bicycle designers to get hot under

the collar any time the subject of bicycle stands is raised.



If they become overheated when raising anything, they probably need

more exercise.



I had kickstands on most of my bicycles over the years. About 20

years ago, I decided that in their then current manifestation, that

kickstands were a bad idea. With a top heavy load, such as a bag of

groceries on the rear rack, they were easily toppled. I also had the

juvenile and suicidal habit of lowering the kickstand with my foot

while coming to a stop. That worked most of the time, but sending me

to a first aid station the remaining times. As I vaguely recall, I've

had more incidents with my left pant cuff getting caught in the

kickstand, then my right cuff getting caught in the chainwheel.



While riding locally in the hills, I usually carry a 1 meter length of

3/5" PVC pipe. It wasn't originally intended as a kickstand, but

rather as a dog deterrent. It has also proven useful for tapping on

automobile windows. I've thought of using it as a rocket launching

tube, but never had the time to build one. At some point in the

distant past, I added a modified PVC "T" connector for it to act as a

kickstand.

http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/slides/PVC-kickstand.html

The other end really should be pointed or crenulated to get a better

grip on the ground, but a straight cut works on dirt. I could also

make it telescoping and adjustable, but haven't found a need.

Unfortunately, like the traditional kickstand, mine tends to topple

with a top heavy load. My solution is simply to not use it when

schlepping a top heavy load.



Like a kickstand, I've lusted after a carryable workstand. Having the

rear wheel off the ground and the bike level would allow me to

maintenance on the rear wheel on the road. Such rear dropout mounted

kickstands are somewhat popular in Japan:

https://www.google.com/search?q=japan+bicycle+kick+stand&tbm=isch

(First two rows of photos).



Andre Jute

Plain thinking, plain speaking -- are the Amish taking converts?



Ideas always start out plain and simple, and soon accelerate towards

complexity. If it seems easy, simple, obvious, and devoid of

problems, you've probably missed a fatal flaw.







--

Jeff Liebermann

150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com

Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com

Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

If a bike has a kickstand you don't have to use it in case it doesn't make sense.

Lou

On 8/6/2014 9:10 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 3:46:42 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I again use myself as my best example. My background was in cheap

consumer electronics and seat of the pants production engineering.

Underscore the word cheap. No matter how hard I tries, I always

thought cheap first. At one point, I worked on a product where price

was not quite so important and where (perceived) quality and

performance were the prime objectives. I ended up being sidelined to

a non-design function because I couldn't stop thinking cheap, no

matter how hard I tried. I expect much the same from a racing bicycle

engineer.

The problem is that, unless you hire a Dutchman or a German, if you insist on an anglophone, the only bike designer you'll find is a racing bike designer, because of that hanging legacy of the @£$%^&*() Peugeot ten-speed, or a mountainbike designer. The very, very odd exception is fully employed: I have in mind the guy who designs the Pashleys in Britain, and Joe Breeze. The other guys are racing bike relicts who see a touring bike as a racing bike with rocketry for a rack and low loaders and an extra water bottle.

Andre Jute


I can think of three quickly - Bruce Gordon, Sky Yaeger and
Grant Peterson who did exemplary work on touring machines
after significant race bike experience.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:03:34 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/6/2014 9:10 AM, Andre Jute wrote:

The problem is that, unless you hire a Dutchman or a German, if you insist on an anglophone, the only bike designer you'll find is a racing bike designer, because of that hanging legacy of the @�$%^&*() Peugeot ten-speed, or a mountainbike designer. The very, very odd exception is fully employed: I have in mind the guy who designs the Pashleys in Britain, and Joe Breeze. The other guys are racing bike relicts who see a touring bike as a racing bike with rocketry for a rack and low loaders and an extra water bottle.



Andre Jute

I can think of three quickly - Bruce Gordon, Sky Yaeger and

Grant Peterson who did exemplary work on touring machines

after significant race bike experience.

You're hammering home my point, Andy. Those guys fit my definition of "fully employed" perfectly.

Andre Jute

On 8/6/2014 10:40 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:


If a bike has a kickstand you don't have to use it in case it doesn't make sense.

This discussion bemuses me. I do a lot of utility cycling and a fair
amount of touring. I gave up kickstands in, I think, 1977, and haven't
wished for one since.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 5:48:42 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/6/2014 10:40 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:





If a bike has a kickstand you don't have to use it in case it doesn't make sense.



This discussion bemuses me. I do a lot of utility cycling and a fair

amount of touring. I gave up kickstands in, I think, 1977, and haven't

wished for one since.



--

- Frank Krygowski

A kickstand is a standard item of every utility bicycle here in the Netherlands. We do quite some utility cycling too you know. It is not a 'Wunder Waffen' but it comes in very handy, so why give up on them?

Lou

On 06/08/2014 15:10, Andre Jute wrote:

The problem is that, unless you hire a Dutchman or a German, if you insist on an anglophone, the only bike designer you'll find is a racing bike designer, because of that hanging legacy of the @£$%^&*() Peugeot ten-speed, or a mountainbike designer. The very, very odd exception is fully employed: I have in mind the guy who designs the Pashleys in Britain, and Joe Breeze. The other guys are racing bike relicts who see a touring bike as a racing bike with rocketry for a rack and low loaders and an extra water bottle.

I thought you were a fan of Andy Blance and his touring bikes? (no, not
the football hooligan).